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Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR

 
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Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 3:03:30 PM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		So while the good folks at M/S are putting the final touches into the Middle East installer, and with some time at our hands, herr von krieg asked whether there'd be two volunteers to test out his latest tournament scenario, fresh out from his drawing board. Certainly! So how about doing a little casual During Action Report of it all.

Edit: Yes, a reminder:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho
Keep in mind, the scenario for that AAR won't be available until the 1.01 release.

Jason Petho


Into the Breach - Golan Heights - 6/16/82

I am playing as Side A (Israel) against Warhorse's Side B (Syria).

Here's the scenario introduction:

quote:

Jim Mays

16 June 1982

[Mount Bental, Golan Heights]:[H2H][TRNY][CSL]: As a result of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, the leaders of Syria decided to test the defenses on the Golan just West of Kuneitra. Unfortunately for the Israelis,

their intelligence as to what the Syrians were up to around Kuneitra gave no indication that the Syrians were about to strike. As part of the Syrian plan, a commando force would air assault all along the Israeli

Main Supply Route and isolate forward units in the area. Following the insertion of Commandos, a battalion of T-72s would move forward to link up with the Commandoes and drive deeper into the Israeli defenses.

Despite repeated assurances from Israeli Intelligence that there was no threat in the area, the Israeli forward positions observed Syrian helicopters passing over their location as dawn broke and raised the alarm.

It seemed the events in Lebanon were spiralling out of control. [ALL][NONE][1.00]


Ah, June 1982. A modern battlefield! This should be fun...

As said, the ink has not yet dried on it, this is the first head-to-head battle on it, so things are subject to change.

So here we go!

Mike - no peaking!

< Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/18/2015 10:17:38 AM >

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RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 3:10:11 PM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Turn #1

The visibility is set as 1-1(n) 2-30(d) for this scenario, so this first turn is played under Night rules.

Here's the overview of the battle field, with 2D Zoom-Out view. I am a 2D/NATO counter player, so that's what you will mostly see.

Side B's the first to go, so when opening up the PBEM file and watching the replay, I observe a good number of unidentified helicopters passing my scattered forces. Here and there the few AA capable units open up, but to no result. It is night, visibility is only one, and no helos wonder next to those of my squads equipped with shoulder-to-air missiles.

I've hit 'A' on my keyboard to highlight all the AA capable units. Not many of them around. Towards the end of the replay I notice a couple of helos levitating next to my single tank coy in the area. Please stay there, that's a sweet landing zone there guys... And stay they did! Can't believe my luck.

Out of all places the Syrians decide to land right next to a high ground guarded by my Merkava tankers.

Battle Reports

So going forward, I will divide the map to three areas of reporting:

  • Battle for the Rawia Vital Ground <- The area where Syrian airborne forces attempt to cut my supply route to the front sector
  • Front Sector / North <- The area North of town of Kuneitra
  • Front Sector / South <- The area South of the said town

    Here's the overall map, with Objective Locations spread through out the Israeli key supply road to the front sector.

    Edit: Added a new overview screenshot, as by the end of play Turn 5 it seems there's three distinct battles taking place in the map:



    These pictures are at my photobucket account. If you want to look at them in larger size, right click at a picture and select "Open in new tab"

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 8:09:55 PM >

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    • Post #: 2
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 3:16:01 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Here's a close up of the action with my rear echelon troops. Ready for some serious helo busting? So am I!

    Battle for the Rawia Vital Ground

    Here's a neat little detail: it is night, visibility is only 1. So how come I can see all the hexes highlighted for Visibility, when I hit 'V'?

    Night vision equipment.

    Still unbelieving my good luck, I tell my little tankers to open up at them. And open up they do. Dust settling from the barrage, I observe I have not hit a single chopper out there! That was extremely unlucky.

    Slow to react to Syrian intrusion, my troops are mostly (but not all) Fixed for the first turns. Here you can observe my A Company will be one of the slow ones to wake up to the crisis, with reaction time of 5 turns until their relese. I am quite concerned any of them will live to see that, for the late war infantry, once out of the helos, will be armed to teeth with all sorts of tank busting gear...



    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 6:31:13 PM >

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    (in reply to Crossroads)
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    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 3:22:22 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #2

    So that was that for the previous turn. Being the weekend, I receive another turn from Warhorse quite quickly. With some trepidation I watch the replay to see the score.

    Battle for the Rawia Vital Ground

    Replay shows the Syrian special forces out of the choppers, and already sending the first salvo towards my tanks in the higher ground. Luckily, the shots bounce off the armor, and my tankers will live to see if not another day then another turn at least.

    Clicking at the enemy stacks, I notice one of them includes a ATGM unit, so I decide to fire at that. My commander and the other tank platoon became unfixed for being fire at, so after the first salvo it is a retreat to them.

    This time my tankers are up to the task, and the ATGM team is quickly dealt with.



    Another new thing is that with Extreme Fog Of War optional rule in place, there's no visibility information from a hex where there's no friendly units in place. You actually have to send a team to a location where you want to observe its surroundings from. This is a nice little tweak, on our quest to make Extreme FOW a bit more... extreme.

    See above: the hex with enemy stack is selected, show visible hexes is toggled on, yet there's no info on visibility from that hex available.

    You want to see it you must first be there to see

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 6:32:12 PM >

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    Post #: 4
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 3:26:53 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Here's the situation then at my rear echelon. I have switched to Alt counters and to 2D unit graphics for a change.

    Battle for the Rawia Vital Ground / End turn

    I send my tank platoon and commander to the north, while the other tank platoon remains Fixed and needs to stay put. The Fixed tank platoon fires at the closest Syrian commando platoon, but to no effect... I don't think they will see another turn, too bad as I don't have too many units in the area.

    Well, at least half of the garrison are there to fight another day. 'You will be avenged!' they shout at their comrades staying put, and dash to the north.

    While retreating my tank platoon was able to fire once being helped with the paved roads not absorbing many movement points, and luckily I score a 1SP kill and a Disruption at the enemy special forces heading up the highway.

    I have also send two Cobras to do some helo hunting in the vicinity. They are out of action point, but as the visibility is good maybe their mere presence is enough to thwart the enemy helos for reinforcing the area.

    I had them flying at low altitude for speed, and for being able to cover the two air levels, one below (Nap of Earth), and one above (High).



    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 6:32:47 PM >

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    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 3:31:20 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		To conclude my turn #2 here's a recap of the action at my front lines.

    Front Sector / South

    The wreck marker above marks the opportunity fire of my ATGM team, while the lower wreck marker marks the remnants of the recon team who stopped there, just in LOS of my teams.

    Missile teams are deadly in this game, so your recon assets are worth their weigh in gold. Yet, they must be cautious too.



    Victory levels are at -250, 0, 250 and 500. At this stage Side B (Syrians) are at -24, so they do have a little mountain to climb.

    I am about to lose the 100VP objective in the rear though, so this seems already like one of those nailbiters...

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 6:31:46 PM >

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    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 3:38:54 PM   
    Crossroads


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    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/12/2015 4:39:17 PM >

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    Post #: 7
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 5:38:32 PM   
    budd


    Posts: 2972
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    From: Tacoma
    Status: offline

    _____________________________

    Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    "Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

    *I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
    I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 8
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 6:06:49 PM   
    Hexagon


    Posts: 1133
    Joined: 6/14/2009
    Status: offline     		Waiting see heavy action, as usual i am with the loser side... sorry but all my cool waves are with Warhorse sure hi is going to need them



    < Message edited by Hexagon -- 9/12/2015 7:07:18 PM >

    (in reply to budd)
    Post #: 9
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/12/2015 8:18:22 PM   
    vonkrieg

     

    Posts: 155
    Joined: 11/4/2014
    Status: offline     		Some notes on this scenario:

    Syrian ground force is locked inside Kuneitra by minefields and blocks. They need to clear a path with their engineering assets (KMT, Engineers, and to move forward with several options, left flank, right flank, hey diddle diddle straight down the middle. Syrians have limited air assets to move their Commandos to the MSR so they have to move quick and repeat the process over and over again while the T72s push forward against fortified positions and lots of Dragon and TOW ATGMs. Helicopter assets are limited so hazard them at your own risk.

    Key units for the Syrians include, T-55 KMT (mine/block removal), Mi-8s for the multiple Commando Air Assaults, Commandos with RPGs and ATGMs, T-72s for the relief column, ZSU-23-4s and SA-7s to give some anti-aircraft coverage, and T34/122 SP Arty.

    Israeli units are initially locked down in their bunkers (ie fixed and can't move) to simulate the hold at all costs order that's been given. The local reserve is a company of Merkavas. Essentially, the Israelis have to hold out until the heavier forces enter the picture. Once the reserves in play, they should, in theory, fight their way to clear the MSR and open up the supply route to the defenders in the bunkers. Cobras with TOWs are flying from a nearby airfield so Syrian tanks do have to have their head on a swivel.

    Key units for the Israelis include, TOW and Dragon ATGMs, Merkava tanks, AH-1 Cobras w/TOW, and an experimental pillbox/highwall construction to simulate the concrete fortifications in the Golan...

    Like Jason said in another thread, this scenario will be a later release. Current plan is for five tourney scenarios around the Golan '82 "what if" theme by me. This is the first. More to follow.

    This looks like a good opening, I didn't expect such a Hail Mary for the deep objectives, but its clear Mike's being very aggressive.

    I'm very much looking forward to seeing this unfold.

    Regards,

    Jim


    (in reply to Hexagon)
    Post #: 10
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/13/2015 3:36:04 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #3

    And the battle continues...

    Battle for the Rawia Vital Ground

    Having waged our goodbyes to our brave Merkava platoon at their vital ground positions, their comrades watching from some distance observe at least two fire missions towards their positions, followed by an assault. As the smoke clears, instead of advancing Syrians they observe the two rear guard tanks at full retreat! As the two fire missions failed to cause an Disruption, I can only assume that is the reason how they survived the assault to their positions. If I was unlucky at those shots at landed helos, this time Lady Fortuna was with me!

    Recovering quickly, my advanced mortar team in their M3 lays out some covering fire, causing two SP kills, while the other tanks further in north score on SP at the other Syrian Special Forces platoon advancing up the north.

    My plan for the location is to contain the Syrian advance, to keep them disrupted and at bay, and chew their strenght little by little in this 30 turn scenario. So far so good!



    All that is left to do here is to move my troops back a bit, to stay at safe distance from Syrian foot infantry. Reversing their tanks, their crews spot a group of CS Vets observing the situation. "Check out that dude there, Ari! He's brought a chair and some pop corn. Can you belive that!" "Watch out pops, its about to turn nasty here!"

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: **budd**


    Before going further, it is finally time to set the Opportunity Fire defaults in place. It is a 4x4 grid with Helos added there, and what I put in place was something like this:



    Front Sector / South

    Next, time to visit those helicopters sneaking back to their lines down at south, flying at Nap Of Earth, so I saw them only sporadically during the replay. I toggle Save AP for Firing on for the helos, and they close in. Miss! However, the HGM platoon near by finish what the Cobras failed to do, and down the two choppers. Escorts, as they were. Hopefully that causes some due alarm with Syrians, so they'd keep from reinforcing their troops at the western edge of the map!

    See the neat little icons in place in Infobox counter: Has Moved, Has Fired, Save AP for Firing:



    Back to the front lines, then. The mood among the civilians is much more dark, as they eagerly await their Syrian liberators.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hexagon

    Waiting see heavy action, as usual i am with the loser side... sorry but all my cool waves are with Warhorse sure hi is going to need them


    A few well placed canister shots of pink paint quickly disperse the mob. A neat little trick they learned from some WW II vets:



    Front Sector / North

    However, the intel report on advancing Syrians makes for some worrying reading:

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: vonkrieg
    Syrian ground force is locked inside Kuneitra by minefields and blocks. They need to clear a path with their engineering assets (KMT, Engineers, and to move forward with several options, left flank, right flank, hey diddle diddle straight down the middle. Syrians have limited air assets to move their Commandos to the MSR so they have to move quick and repeat the process over and over again while the T72s push forward against fortified positions and lots of Dragon and TOW ATGMs. Helicopter assets are limited so hazard them at your own risk.

    Key units for the Syrians include, T-55 KMT (mine/block removal), Mi-8s for the multiple Commando Air Assaults, Commandos with RPGs and ATGMs, T-72s for the relief column, ZSU-23-4s and SA-7s to give some anti-aircraft coverage, and T34/122 SP Arty.


    Regardless, the few squads manning the Israeli front line check their weapons. The orders are strict: This far, but no further!

    The ATGM team checks their missile system, and coolly targets the largest APC platoon at their range, ignoring the plethora of T-72s or even the AA-tanks at their disposal. Smoke clearing sees 4 BPM-1s destroyed, and 6SP of Syrian infantry out of the battle. These guys are deadly. I am certain I can handle the T-72s later, now that my Merkavas somehow miraceously still all are in the game. Infantry is very vulnerable while deployed, so better get the shots out while the opportunity remains.

    With 40 AP remaing, I opt to keep them at their pill boxes. Possibly a mistake, given how strong the Syrian tank force out there is...




    End Of Turn Status

    And that's it for turn 3!



    Score at the end of T3: -101VP and a Minor Israeli Win at this stage. Syrians bled heavily during the turn, while the friendly losses are yet to occur. That is about to change, I am afraid...




    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 6:27:08 PM >

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    Post #: 11
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/13/2015 3:50:53 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		The first screenie was with 2D Zoom-In view, the two others with 2D Normal. Quite handy, with plenty of detail available from the battle field.

    Over to you Mike!

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    Post #: 12
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/13/2015 7:36:11 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #4

    Turn #4 Syrian replay was mostly about my ATGM team being shelled at their pillbox, but since the Syrian tanks are still some distance away behind the mine fields my guys take no casualties.

    Battle for the Rawia Vital Ground

    Back to the rear area, where the Syrian Special Forces coy finds themselves in the open, being fired by my tank coy and mortars from a close distance. They take casualties and fall back. Not a happy place for them, out there, without any weapon systems that can take my armored targets beyond a one click range I am keeping between my and their units.



    Front Sector / South

    In the front line, the Syrian helos land to take in more infantry and ATGM teams to be carried over my front line. If only I would have some artillery assets there for direct fire!

    Instead I call on my Cobras, who engage the landed helos from a long distance, given there's Syrian AA present in the vicinity. Firing... No results!

    Note that since I've highlighted the target hex here, with EFOW in place, I do not see which hexes have visibility to the target.



    Front Sector / North

    Finally, a couple of clicks to the North my ATGM teams deploy again against the enemy armor. They catch one retreating APC with passengers. No quarter given. BANG! It is gone. Then, to clear the skies for my Cobras, the AA tanks. BANG! Wreck marker marks where they were.



    End Of Turn Status

    It is late here, ended my turn and sent back to Warhorse, now realising I did not look at the VP situation nor the casualty report. I can only assume it was another costly turn for the Syrians.

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 6:25:20 PM >

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    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/14/2015 3:13:17 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
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    Status: offline     		Turn #5

    ... and the rest of my Merkava Tank Coy is released, those that were not fired upon yet. Also, a couple of platoons of Arm'd Infantry becomes available, and I am rushing them towards the Syrian special forces who are threatening to cut my supply route towards the front.

    Battle for the Rawia Vital Ground

    There was some indirect fire shelling hitting the area, obviously plotted by the commandos. I lose an M3 Mortar vehicle to them (the wreck marker on the map), and as they are now under low Combat Efficiency status (Out of Ammo symbol showing), they need to resupply and regroup before returning to firing missions. I drive them out of LOS of Syrians so they'd be safe against further casualties from Syrian shelling.

    At the same time, I am swinging my Merkava's towards the Syrian armored push, but not before they've released an HE barrage towards Syrian commandos. Here's the end-of-turn situation at my rear, with Contours ON, showing the height differences in the area:



    Front Sector / South

    Meanwhile, the situation at the front sector is becoming critical. The Syrian artillery and T-72s keep shelling my forward positions, and I lose an ATGM SP to them, while the remaining squad (2SP) becomes Disrupted. They recover in time for my turn, so time to return the favours! With no APCs nor AA assets in range anymore, it is time to start hitting those Syrian Engineering AFVs, to keep them from removing the minefields and blocks.

    In 2D, the terrain markers show only a Block, when there might be a minefield in the same hex too. The minefield becomes visible, once the block is first removed. So either assume all blocks are mined, or click at the hex, and check the Hex Info Box information, for it tells not only the minefield too, but its strength while at it as well. No need to be guessing should you just check them out one by one.

    As the ATGM teams done their damage, there's still a Syrian Engineering AFV in the south. There's a Syrian what seems a MANPAD team next to it, so time to hit 'F3' to bring up Arkady's Unit Viewer, and to find it under the Syrian OOB, to see its range.

    Just to make sure I identified the Syrian unit properly, I hit 'Ctrl+i' to display 2D Unit icons, then switch back to NATO icons with another 'Ctrl+i.

    MANPAD team it is. Helos are a Soft target by the way. 12 hexes it is, and just outside their range my Cobras swing in firing a salvo of ATGMs at the Syrian AFVs, causing some kills for the first time in the scenario.

    Helos are good for four Missiled attacks before they need to return to their HQ to resupply. One more mission left with them, then.



    Having completed their attack, I swing the other Cobra to High altitude, and send it to spot on the Syrian commandos who've gone hiding. No way I am sending any ground vehicles their way blind! The other Cobra swings to south to return for some serious Syrian helo hunting.

    Front Sector / North

    To the North, the Syrian armored forces are breaking out to the north. They've built a bridge over the anti-tank ditch there, with their bridge-laying vehicles. I need to do something, so I swing in two sections of Jeeps armed with ATGMs to hit at their rear.

    The cat and the mouse game in this modern battle field then swings against me. I lose the other Jeep section upon the approach to Syrian Op Fire, I hit at their Engineering AFV platoon, but when retreating back to cover another op fire salvo destroys the remaining two! The hunter became hunted, and did not live to tell about it.

    Here's the end-of-turn situation at the Northern edge of my front sector, showing the break-away Syrian battle group, and my remaining Jeep ATGM section, celebrating their successful fire mission on those Syrian Engineering AFVs (wreck marker), just seconds before being killed-in-action while scooting back towards the orchards for security:



    Visible is the remaining Syrian Engineering AFV. It is Disrupted, I hope it does not recover by the beginning of Syrian turn, so the block would stay in the road. There's no minefield there, so it is a hindrance at best, but since it is targeted by my ATGM teams I very much like all vehicles having problems by-passing the sector.

    End Turn Statistics

    At the end of turn #5 the losses are accumulating, with friendly casualties beginning to stack up too.



    The score is at -149, with the Syrian armored battlegroup determined to capture the Objectives upon my supply route...

    Over to Warhorse, for turn 6!

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/14/2015 8:39:46 PM >

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    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 14
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/14/2015 11:18:06 PM   
    budd


    Posts: 2972
    Joined: 7/4/2009
    From: Tacoma
    Status: offline     		Hope you don't mind a question. Has how supply is handled changed from the WW2 campaign games? in an earlier post you mention having your supply lines cut, as i understand the WW2 games as long as your in HQ command range you get supply.

    _____________________________

    Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    "Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

    *I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
    I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 15
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/14/2015 11:33:00 PM   
    Warhorse


    Posts: 5712
    Joined: 5/12/2000
    From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hexagon

    Waiting see heavy action, as usual i am with the loser side... sorry but all my cool waves are with Warhorse sure hi is going to need them



    Thanks, now throw me some positive vibes!!! Those pesky ATGM's are a real PITA!

    _____________________________

    Mike Amos

    Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    www.cslegion.com

    (in reply to Hexagon)
    Post #: 16
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/15/2015 5:30:34 AM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: **budd**

    Hope you don't mind a question. Has how supply is handled changed from the WW2 campaign games? in an earlier post you mention having your supply lines cut, as i understand the WW2 games as long as your in HQ command range you get supply.


    Sure thing **budd**, the whole purpose of this DAR is to high light the new game play. Any questions guys let us know!

    As for Supply, the whole concept on how what was called Supply affects units is now referred as Combat Efficiency. While part semantics, it better addresses the whole concept of Supply in this scale we feel.

    Many things are just like they were. Especially when playing under C&C optional rule, you need to take care the chain-of-command to your front units is coherent: from 1st platoon to Bn HQ to upper echelons of command, just as it was. Depending on Base Supply levels, as set for the Nation as a default, and as specified by the scenario designer, especially, it is likely your units 'drop out of supply', ie. operate under reduced Combat Efficiency as it is now called. This all remains the same.

    A snippet from Game Manual, on Combat Efficiency:

    quote:

    3.3.2 Combat Efficiency System

    At the beginning of each friendly turn, a check is made for each non-Isolated unit that fired the previous turn to see if it maintains its Combat Efficiency. A unit attempting to maintain efficiency does so through its “parent” Headquarters. If the units “parent” Headquarters is not on the map, the program will search for the next Headquarters that commands the unit; for example, the unit’s regimental or divisional Headquarters. The program measures the range from the “parent” Headquarters to determine a base probability and then makes a percentile die roll. Combat Efficiency is maintained if that die roll is less than or equal to that base probability. If the die roll fails, a second percentile die roll (0-99) is made against the Base Ammo level for the friendly side. If the second die roll fails, the unit will not have its Combat Efficiency maintained and will be considered Conserving Ammo.

    Additionally, each friendly non-Isolated Headquarters will conduct a check to see if it maintains Combat
    Efficiency. Like with combat units, the check is made against the distance to the Headquarters “parent
    Headquarters”. If that fails, a second percentile die roll (0-99) will be made against the Base Ammo level.

    If the Headquarters does not maintain efficiency, it will be considered Conserving Ammo.

    Artillery utilizes the same system above, but performs the checks against the Artillery Ammo level set for friendly side of the scenario.


    So as you see, a lot remains the same, while hopefully the new terminology makes it easier for the new gamers to understand the concepts of C&C under CS series scale.

    So the purpose is not to propose a situation where platoons are out of ammo come one turn and back to full stocks the next. The model proposed is rather the confusion of battle field, where depending on situation units would be Conserving Ammo they carry with to last longer perhaps than what was originally thought out.

    Then, what has changed? A lot!

    What has changed quite drastically even is the data parameters that drive this aspect of the game (among other aspects too). Berto is penning a Coder Diary on Adaptive A/I, and when it hits the streets it is deffo worth reading. Plenty of chances to tweak how the units behave and function! It is one of the most fundamental changes going on under the Campaign Series, and we are only starting to exploit it fully under CS:ME 1.00. Watch that space!

    Back to Supply, there is one fundamental change in this too, in that certain units can now resupply their stocks of ammonition in the most traditional sense of the context. It is only applied to Helos with ATGMs in CS:ME 1.00, and as I wrote in the DAR these types of gunships have ATGMs for four (4) fire missions only, after which they have to return to their own HQ hex, land there, and wait to be resupplied, after which they can return to next four fire missions.

    This is something that can be taken further on in future releases. There's plenty of units that could benefit from this capability. For instance Mine Laying Engineers continue to function as they did in WW II era titles: once they've laid the one minefield they are done, and are more or less useless for the remaining length of the scenario.

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/15/2015 6:45:20 AM >

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    Post #: 17
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/15/2015 5:03:29 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #6

    A quiet turn from Israeli point of view...

    Rawia Vital Ground

    Syrian special forces come forward again, perhaps with an intention to dig in around the Objective Location. They seem to have plenty of smoke available for their artillery somewhere in the eastern edge of the map.

    My Armored Infantry is still traveling, it will take some time for them to arrive here. For the moment I am happy to keep a contact to Syrians, to see what they are up to. A couple of recon teams on Jeeps arrived last turn, so I spread my forces around a bit.



    Front Lines

    Having moved my helos back a bit I realise I lost the visual on the Syrian battlegroup moving north. In this game of cat and mouse, I move one of my Cobra flights to High altitude air level, and have them observing the Syrian deployment from next turn again. There's a Syrian MANPAD team in the city, better stay away from it.



    Front Lines / Northern Sector

    The Syrian armored column arrives to the vicinity of my forward post. There's a helo landing there as well. I move my Infantry team closer to them, while taking care to stay out of LOS of the Syrian tankers. Note the 750m (three hex) range on hard targets by modern infantry here.

    Meanwhile, my ATGM team is there too to greet the Syrians, wiping a couple of T-72s out of equation.



    Front Lines / Southern Sector

    A bit of a stalemate at the moment. Syrians have brought their helos forward, protected by a MANPAD team, while my other Cobra flight keeps an eye on them, well clear from the MANPADS...



    And that's it for this turn! Over to you Warhorse.

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/15/2015 6:27:36 PM >

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    Post #: 18
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/15/2015 5:04:36 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Switched to Alternate Counters last turn, to be able to better observe the contents of stacked hexes, friend and hostile.

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    Post #: 19
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/16/2015 1:39:57 AM   
    budd


    Posts: 2972
    Joined: 7/4/2009
    From: Tacoma
    Status: offline     		maybe i missed this but can helo's just hang around and recon forever. I know you said they had to resupply armaments but what about fuel? Sorry if this has been covered already.

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    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 20
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/16/2015 3:49:50 AM   
    vonkrieg

     

    Posts: 155
    Joined: 11/4/2014
    Status: offline     		Currently, there are no limitations on a helo's loiter time. However, in this fight they are relatively close to the front lines which means they would have massive loiter time. Looking at it as it stands in the scenario, I will probably have to put some SA-9s on the Syrian side to make the Cobras really nervous and prevent the "high" mode recon by helo in an active combat zone. Its just asking to get shot down. But my current version doesn't give the Syrians anything more than close in air defense with SA-7s and ZSU-23-4s.

    Many things have to be controlled by the scenario designer and with all this new equipment we have to find a good balance. Which is the reason I created this scenario to give everyone the new systems and to see just what to expect on the ME battlefield. I am already seeing some things that will probably get revised in the current iteration of this scenario, but this would not be readily apparent without Crossroads and Warhorse duking it out in such an open forum.

    Luv'n it.

    Jim

    (in reply to budd)
    Post #: 21
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/16/2015 7:37:35 AM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: vonkrieg
    Currently, there are no limitations on a helo's loiter time. However, in this fight they are relatively close to the front lines which means they would have massive loiter time. Looking at it as it stands in the scenario, I will probably have to put some SA-9s on the Syrian side to make the Cobras really nervous and prevent the "high" mode recon by helo in an active combat zone. Its just asking to get shot down. But my current version doesn't give the Syrians anything more than close in air defense with SA-7s and ZSU-23-4s.

    Many things have to be controlled by the scenario designer and with all this new equipment we have to find a good balance. Which is the reason I created this scenario to give everyone the new systems and to see just what to expect on the ME battlefield. I am already seeing some things that will probably get revised in the current iteration of this scenario, but this would not be readily apparent without Crossroads and Warhorse duking it out in such an open forum.

    Luv'n it.

    Jim


    Absolutely! In showcase here is not only all the modern gear that goes into a 1980s battle field, but also the aspects of the scenario design.

    What I did not write to the previous turn report that was that actually the Cobra flight went to High Air Level for a quick look to locate the Syrian SPA. I think they are in Kuneitra, and if I indeed spot them there, and if the MANPADs are situated in a manner I can engage them just outside the MANPAD range, that is what I will do.

    So, from scenario designer's point of view how to remove the (relative) impunity of Israeli Cobra flights?

  • Add some Syrian SA-9s to the scenario. After that addition, it is only NOE flying for the Cobras for should they show up they'd be blasted out of the skies. A viable option for sure.
  • Add more MANPAD and other AA assets to the Syrian side, so there'd be even more no-fly zones to Israeli helos. They've got a range of 12, so it is not that they are worthless at all. I have been very careful tip-toeing outside their range, for otherwise my two helo assets be gone.
  • Possibly, add like 10 hexes to the east of the map edge, so Syrian artillery has more room to deploy inside the Syrian AA umbrella. To engage them deeper in Syrian territory would be a big risk for Israelis, and likely the helos would require ground support to blast them a safe zone to enter Syrian air space.
  • Finally, make a wish list to game developers (ha!) that ATGM and MANPAD teams would be Sneaker units, such as is the case with low cal AT Guns already with MCS titles. You don't necessarily see them even if they fire so they'd need to be wiped out by friendly assets engaging the suspicious hexes directly.

    Plenty of options! How to proceed as a Scenario Designer? Set up a test game or three All the great scenarios are likely the result of many test games under the belt, and Scenario Designer working closely with the testers.

    Something we are doing out here in the open

    Anyways, typing this in from the work (hush...), really looking forward to opening Warhorse's turn this evening and to see how it will play out!

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    • Post #: 22
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/16/2015 3:46:10 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #7

    Rawia Vital Ground

    The Israelis are still operating under minimal forces here, with the promised relief column still some time off from arrival. Here, I will have to do with the few units that can react to Syrian airborne threat, so I am content to moving my recon elements around a bit, and having the two infantry platoons ordered to stay off from harms ways. Especially, as the Syrian artillery remains a threat.



    Front Sector

    Speaking of them, the Syrian SPAs indeed are in Kuneitra. Warhorse's done what he can in putting a proper air defence around them, but with the map edge right at his back, there's the opportunity for my Cobra flights to hit at them dancing around just outside the MANPAD range. I have both of my Cobra flights engaging the spotted SPAs.

    Obviously, this is a bit of an issue now as discussed, so we're to do a little pow-wow with vonkrieg as how to proceed with this play test.



    Southern Sector

    The Syrian helos dashed just outside the LOS of the Israeli held objective, and since they remained just outside the LOS of my HGM unit there, I decide to withdraw (in double time) towards the pillboxes. With Syrian infantry approaching from multiple directions, it just does not look like a safe place outside of them...



    Northern Sector

    Syrian battle group arrives in force come this turn. I snipe at them with my Milan teams, but as they close in my units in pillboxes begin to feel really isolated... Time to call in the infantry platoon from their recon mission at the edge of orchards here too!



    End of Turn Status

    The point deficit just swing to -251, but with my 50 objective about to chance hands next turn, and some 300 VPs available in the Northern Sector among my supply road, the proverbial lady certainly has not sang her last yet!

    Anyway, time for an interim status report to vonkrieg next!


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    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 23
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/16/2015 5:34:16 PM   
    Hexagon


    Posts: 1133
    Joined: 6/14/2009
    Status: offline     		Great AAR, keep it moving at least 1 week more

    A little question, in your last pics look like mech infantry NATO symbols appear in the left top corner in the counter... is a glich/bug or a problem with screenshot???

    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 24
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/16/2015 7:28:07 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hexagon

    Great AAR, keep it moving at least 1 week more

    A little question, in your last pics look like mech infantry NATO symbols appear in the left top corner in the counter... is a glich/bug or a problem with screenshot???


    With Alternate Counters, we came with a setup there's 12 standard unit types that have their own color bar at the lower edge of the counter. The color bars would follow the original NATO icon counter colors, so pink for armor, green for arty, yellow for infantry, and so fort.

    Then, it was done in a way certain special units could have added information, so in addition to infantry yellow color bar, paras and armd infantry for instance would have the NATO icon repeated in the counter too. It makes perhaps less sense when playing with NATO icons any way, like I do.

    With 2D unit icons, it makes more sense, like see below.



    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/16/2015 8:39:09 PM >

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    Post #: 25
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/17/2015 2:25:34 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #8

    After the little pow-wow it was decided to continue the test game. The main message was that the purpose of the Syrian battle group is to cut the Israeli Main Supply Road of the area, and for the Israelis to prevent that from happening. So for instance the Objectives might be reconsidered for their value, should it be costly for the Syrians to get there... I can't assume anything, so I will need to ensure the MSR remains open!

    Rawia Vital Ground

    Not much here... The Syrians spread out to establish a defensive perimeter, while I spread out to establish a defensive perimeter outside their defensive perimeter:



    Southern Sector

    Syrians gather their strength, Israelis set up outposts... Calm before the storm, while nothing to report as such.

    Northern Sector

    While tip-toeing further away from the Syrian MANPADS, I went one hex too far last turn, and lost the visual on Syrian SPA. Since the MANPAD teams have spread out a bit, I can't anymore engage the city without flying into their range. So I decide to call it the day there, and send my Cobra flights to North to help in containing the Syrian breakthrough there.



    Speaking of which, the T-72s have now closed in at the Israeli pillbox there, and wipe out my Milan ATGM team. I send an infantry platoon in to replace them and to buy time, while my Cobras break in. Just at the edge of their range, I knock out the Syrian AA tanks, to ensure the sky remains free for my tank hunters.



    My Abel company from the Tank battalion is still some time from arriving into the scene, so I am a bit thin there at the moment. Plenty of space for the Syrian tanks to advance, so I again move my helos to observe the enemy movement in the sector.

    And that's it! Over to Warhorse for Turn 9!

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    Post #: 26
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/18/2015 6:17:18 AM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #9

    Rawia Vital Ground

    At Rawia, the staring contest continues. I have turned the Hex Info Box off, to have more map estate on my screen, so now (just as with previous titles), the selected unit shows in a floating Infobox counter. A little change for CS:ME is the background color is changed to black, from shadow mesh. Makes for easier reading at least to my weary eyes.



    Northern Sector

    Warhorse is moving more armored forces into area, in what otherwise would be out of LOS behind the ridge. However my helos are an ever continuous presence now, so nothing moves with out me seeing it.

    I switched to Alt Counters a couple of turns ago, to get the most information from the battle field. It now pays off, as I spot a white transport counter in a stack of units. They were hiding in the middle of the stack, but were spotted, and soon dealt with. There's a limit of four counters on display at most, to avoid overlapping in map, so if you spot a suspicious stack of four, you better turn the Hex Info Box on (hit 'U' for units), to observe the full content of the hex.



    My other Cobra hit a T-72 platoon, with less effect this time, while the first tanks of my Merkava Tank Coy enter the scene. Firing at their range limits. Merkava has a range of four clicks, while T-72 of three clicks, so I still try to stay out of harms way, and to contain the Syrian advance while wearing them down for my eventual relief column and the counter attack.

    Southern Sector

    Warhorse's flying a lot of infantry to my rear sector, as evident here. I am pretty much helpless against those intrusions. I move my HMG team to the area in a hope they can cause at least some damage to Syrian helos flying at Nap Of Earth I think, for most of the time I don't see them at all.



    And that's it! Over to Warhorse for turn #10!

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/18/2015 8:36:37 AM >

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    Post #: 27
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/19/2015 9:42:52 AM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #10

    Northern Sector

    Time to look at the big picture. We are both playing this scenario blind, ie we did not look at other sides forces nor positions. So while the Syrians paid the price for those early probing pushes, they have now found one of the weak spots in Israeli defence lines.

    Syrian tanks arrive in force. I had a ATGM team together with an Infantry platoon digging in at North of Bab Alhawal ruins, but they were spotted and wiped out. The lone pillbox at the north is now completely surrounded, and depleted by the constant shelling from zero range by the Syrian T-72s. Their lack of infantry means they can't assault the position, but it is only a matter of time before the last defenders are buried in the ruins...

    Meanwhile, as the plan goes some of my Merkavas engage the opposing T-72s from distance, while some move to Northwest to establish a defensive perimeter there (the yellow line). This far, but no further!

    One of the Cobra flights stays in the area to observe the Syrian movements, while the other flew back to HQs for resupply of ATGMs.



    Southern Sector

    Syrian helos continue to buzz over my troops, carrying more infantry, apparently heading to Rawia Vital Ground as a relief force. Nothing I can do. Come next turn my HMG platoon has their APs full, so hopefully they can Op Fire on some of the low flying Syrian transports!

    Rawia Vital Ground

    Reports are in for the first Israeli Relief Group elements entering the area. Encouraged by the news, my Infantry Coy closes in. Meanwhile, I push my APCs to south, taking Op Fire from Syrians, but no casualties. Also, my Jeep/MG teams drive towards south. Hopefully their limited AA capabilities still can cause some concern for the Syrian relief troops zooming in, in their Mi-8 transports.

    Looking at the screenshot below, it is obvious why I named the area as Vital Ground. Look at the highway my Relief Column must pass on their way to front sector. Ambush Alley! it currently could be named...



    This time the hex highlight is toggled to portray the selected unit's movement range. Better be careful not to get stuck next to an angry Syrian commando platoon!

    And that's it. Over to Warhorse for Turn #11!

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/19/2015 4:22:12 PM >

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    Post #: 28
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/20/2015 11:57:02 AM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		Turn #11

    Rawia Vital Ground

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Crossroads

    Southern Sector

    Syrian helos continue to buzz over my troops, carrying more infantry, apparently heading to Rawia Vital Ground as a relief force. Nothing I can do. Come next turn my HMG platoon has their APs full, so hopefully they can Op Fire on some of the low flying Syrian transports!


    Oh wow, they were not only approaching Rawia, they were already there! My recon units moved into the area during the previous turn, but they spot only from the beginning of this turn to reveal the Israeli Main Supply Road is at least for now decisively cut, as another Coy of Syrian Commandos has landed in the area!

    Oh wow... Talk about rapid movement!



    The forward elements of my Relief Column have to fight their way through the area, now.

    Southern Sector

    My forward units continue to report heavy helicopter activity in Kuneitra, as the Syrian Mi-8 transports buzz in and out of the city carrying more Syrian forces over my front lines. With the MANPAD teams securing the city from all approaches, my Cobra flights are prevented from entering the area. They would have been the only asset I can use to hit the area, so I am effectively cut out from there.



    A few hexes Southwest from this pic, the Objective that fell last turn to Syrians was reinforced with HMG teams.

    I withdraw my infantry platoons from the vicinity, to wait on that eventual counter attack to come towards the later turns of the scenario. If my relief column can enter the area, that is!

    Northern Sector

    Syrians have effectively secured the area from Israeli ground troops, with the remaining units in the isolated pillbox sealed in and unable to escape. The Syrian tanks have withdrawn behind orchards and rocky spots, and are out of LOS of my Tank Coy securing the area.

    My other Cobra flight that returned to their HQs is now supplied, and can take off come next turn. Meanwhile, my out-of-ammo Cobra flight remains in the area to report on any Syrian movement. Without it present, I would have lost the contact on the Syrian armored force north in the map.

    I have three air strikes on my arsenal, this seemed like a good time to call them all in at the same time, hopefully for some serious shock-and-awe come next turn.



    And that's it for this turn. Over to Warhorse for turn #12!

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/20/2015 1:02:11 PM >

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    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 29
    RE: Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR - 9/20/2015 12:17:15 PM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Crossroads

    Turn #10

    [--- snip ---]

    Rawia Vital Ground

    Reports are in for the first Israeli Relief Group elements entering the area. Encouraged by the news, my Infantry Coy closes in. Meanwhile, I push my APCs to south, taking Op Fire from Syrians, but no casualties. Also, my Jeep/MG teams drive towards south. Hopefully their limited AA capabilities still can cause some concern for the Syrian relief troops zooming in, in their Mi-8 transports.

    Looking at the screenshot below, it is obvious why I named the area as Vital Ground. Look at the highway my Relief Column must pass on their way to front sector. Ambush Alley! it currently could be named...



    This time the hex highlight is toggled to portray the selected unit's movement range. Better be careful not to get stuck next to an angry Syrian commando platoon!

    And that's it. Over to Warhorse for Turn #11!



    Can you believe this I had two APC platoons zooming past the orchards where two Syrian Commando platoons and one helo flight had just landed!

    Edit: in fact, I took some incoming Op Fire, I assumed it was from the IP hex next to the orchards. Ha. Way cool.

    < Message edited by Crossroads -- 9/20/2015 1:19:19 PM >

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    Post #: 30
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