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RE: WitE 2 - 3/23/2016 2:02:28 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab
I've long come to the conclusion that half weekly turns are the way to go. This does lead to the problem though that full campaign games are over 400 turns long I'm mostly interested in 41/42 anyway so I'd be happy to just play the first two years or so. It's true that some of the MM deadwood could be cut out which would help.

As much as I love map detail I don't think I could cope with 2½ times as many hexes. My head would go pop :)


My thinking was that 4d/turn WeGo could be played with similar speed to 7d/turn IGoYouGo, so that would not affect real time used. Map scale of 10km/hex could be indeed scrapped, because I would like to experiment with a ZOC-less game. And if hex is big enough it can be argued that unit's influence does not extend beyond its borders, and it works better for a combat model that I have in mind, in which units from both sides would engage on a single hex (solving another problem with hex shapes and the ineviteable problem of uneven exposure).

edit: also, in a WeGo game you only plan, not execute, so there is no way to waste a lot of time optimizing your movement and combats, so IMHO such turn would take much less time.

< Message edited by morvael -- 3/23/2016 2:05:28 PM >

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Post #: 481
RE: WitE 2 - 3/23/2016 2:47:16 PM   
Manstein63


Posts: 688
Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline 		I am willing to give it a go if you set it up & pm me the password. I won't be able to make a start until the weekend as I am not feeling very well atm & I will also need to complete my game turn against Sillyflower. It would be nice to track this down before 0.9 is released if possible.
Manstein63

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(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 482
RE: WitE 2 - 3/23/2016 3:24:51 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		I've never been a fan of wego systems. If somebody ever puts the 'I' into AI then I'm sure they'll be awesome.
Some sort of hybrid system may work though with a wego phase followed by an igougo turn. A turn would take even longer though of course.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 483
RE: WitE 2 - 3/23/2016 7:06:31 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

You obviously can't read or have a very short memory as I am all about the game having more influence from the dictators. Always have been.


Whilst I understand your rationale, I have to differ with you on this issue. Political interference (equally from those of all parties) was the bane of my life when I was working, and the last thing I want is to have this replicated in my gaming . It's 1 reason I've not bought DC3.

In WiTE the Russian player must be Stalin if anyone - no one else had the powers the player has. Th German side is more complicated as the german player has fewer powers than russian one. None of Hitler's control over production or which units come onto or leave the map, but much more control than OKH.

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Post #: 484
RE: WitE 2 - 3/23/2016 9:12:18 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		++++ to Silly, no politics in my gaming.

Especially no interference with the "brilliance" of our player community!!

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Post #: 485
RE: WitE 2 - 3/23/2016 10:24:33 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		It all depends on how much historicity you want in your game. It's just degree's. I want more from WITE. I get some people would not.

However you need to bare in mind that Hitler and Stalin made the War in Russia what is was. I find it very difficult to disengage them from it totally.

My biggest wish would be for some C&C effects for Russia early on that really reflected the chaos and backwardness of the Soviet communications system and the fact that senior commanders would not do anything without the blessing of Stavka (Stalin). And Stalin ordered crazy attacks and was very reluctant to retreat.

I have my wishes for Hitleresk rules as well. But I leave that for another time.

In the end WITE is still the best game out there for PC East Front games. I think I have tried them all now, including DC3.


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Post #: 486
RE: WitE 2 - 3/28/2016 6:58:44 PM   
NotOneStepBack


Posts: 915
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline 		While I may be late to the party, it would be awesome to help test WITE 2.0 as I helped test WITW.

Just getting back into wargames after a nice leave due to work and life.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 487
RE: WitE 2 - 4/8/2016 12:21:06 AM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		Back to WITE 2. My concern with 1 is the Soviet has tremendous flexibility in force structure over the the campaign and the Soviet army 2.0 rarely resembles historical. The Germans are locked into the historical OOB over the 3.7 years irrespective of what is in the production pool.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 488
RE: WitE 2 - 4/8/2016 4:24:44 PM   
MButtsworth

 

Posts: 433
Joined: 7/4/2014
Status: offline 		Having played War in the East since it was first released as War in the Russia on the Amiga I would love to play War in the East 2.0 as an alpha tester if that is possible.

Matthew Buttsworth

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Post #: 489
RE: WitE 2 - 4/8/2016 5:34:11 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmonical

Back to WITE 2. My concern with 1 is the Soviet has tremendous flexibility in force structure over the the campaign and the Soviet army 2.0 rarely resembles historical. The Germans are locked into the historical OOB over the 3.7 years irrespective of what is in the production pool.


I'm not sure what we are doing - I think the idea is to limit the Soviet player to a set number of each Unit Type. One change we have already made is to take the Tank Brigades off the map and allow Rifle Divs to attach one SU.

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WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 490
RE: WitE 2 - 4/8/2016 6:18:41 PM   
NotOneStepBack


Posts: 915
Joined: 6/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer


quote:

ORIGINAL: rmonical

Back to WITE 2. My concern with 1 is the Soviet has tremendous flexibility in force structure over the the campaign and the Soviet army 2.0 rarely resembles historical. The Germans are locked into the historical OOB over the 3.7 years irrespective of what is in the production pool.


I'm not sure what we are doing - I think the idea is to limit the Soviet player to a set number of each Unit Type. One change we have already made is to take the Tank Brigades off the map and allow Rifle Divs to attach one SU.



This is such a fundamental decision, I hope there is a lot of thought put around this. Playing Soviet now, in my opinion, is more fun than the Axis side as you get to create the Red Army how you see fit. For people that like to tinker like myself, this is most enjoyable.

I would hope to see some flexibility on the Axis side. Please don't go the route of the "EF Box" as we did in WITW. It was too abstract and just didn't feel right. The game should just focus on the Eastern Front, and I think the Axis player should get some kind of way to control his forces. Perhaps a "hitler opinion" based on progress on the eastern front would give the player more APs as Axis to customize his forces more. You don't have to listen to Hitler, but it would probably be wise to do so under such a system. The same could be said on the Soviet side, if you do certain things you'd get an AP bonus, which could help give the game more of a feel that holding certain locations and keeping your army together matters.


(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 491
RE: WitE 2 - 4/8/2016 6:20:17 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		3 questions:
- german mobile forces have a tremendous mobility. Will WITE2 work on the same way?
- In order to prevent beakthrough, most russians do a multiple hexes deep defence. It's unreallistic but partially due to the "one week" scale. Will it change?
- Any idea of the date of release?

Thanks

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 492
RE: WitE 2 - 4/8/2016 8:46:37 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		@NOSB - I said I'm not sure. A soviet player would still have a choice but not unfettered flexibility. I appreciate your thoughts on the WF Box and we have already have a solution that reduces abstraction but gives flexibility.

@STEF78 - We now have the new combat delay code from WitW. This slows things as does the more realistic logistics model where lack of fuel reduces MPs and supply CV. We are not changing one week turns. Finally I will never discus release timings (or cost).

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Post #: 493
RE: WitE 2 - 4/8/2016 9:25:43 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

Tank Brigades off the map and allow Rifle Divs to attach one SU


This is great news!

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Post #: 494
RE: WitE 2 - 4/9/2016 1:29:17 AM   
NotOneStepBack


Posts: 915
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

Tank Brigades off the map and allow Rifle Divs to attach one SU


This is great news!


Agreed. I really only use them to dig and hold unimportant sectors now

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Post #: 495
RE: WitE 2 - 4/9/2016 5:28:18 PM   
orabera


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: Monument, CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Finally I will never discus release timings (or cost).



You're the reason we can't have nice toys (or at least more things to complain about with our nice toys).

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Post #: 496
RE: WitE 2 - 4/9/2016 5:35:00 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orabera


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Finally I will never discus release timings (or cost).



You're the reason we can't have nice toys (or at least more things to complain about with our nice toys).



What an odd thing to say. Cost and Time are for Matrix to decide - not those of us working directly on the game.

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Post #: 497
RE: WitE 2 - 4/9/2016 5:46:49 PM   
orabera


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: Monument, CO
Status: offline 		I internally debated with myself before clicking OK. Wasn't sure anyone would get it but I thought someone else would call me, thought you would understand.

Joke.

I'm the only person who gets me.

Mike





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Post #: 498
RE: WitE 2 - 4/9/2016 5:53:01 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		seems so

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Post #: 499
RE: WitE 2 - 4/11/2016 5:41:27 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, If you take off the tank brigades where are the Soviet tanks? Is it to prevent the player from isolating Panzer divisions with a puny throw away brigade?

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Post #: 500
RE: WitE 2 - 4/11/2016 4:52:16 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Off the map = support units. They are probably handling the Soviet brigades (and some German regiments) as convertibles, like WitW. Meaning they can switch between on map units and off map support units attachable to divisions and corps.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 501
RE: WitE 2 - 4/11/2016 7:03:35 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Yes, Soviet infantry brigades are multi-role, so they can be on or off map support units. Tank brigades can only be support units as they are very small units. Since Soviet divisions can attach 1 support unit, you can directly assign a tank brigade to a division, or you can leave them in HQs where they will act like other support units. There are some other small units that were on map in WitE but are going to be support units in WitE2. Currently the plan is still to use the brigades to build up to form Tank and Mech Corps.

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Post #: 502
RE: WitE 2 - 4/11/2016 9:53:26 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Tank brigades can only be support units as they are very small units.
Currently the plan is still to use the brigades to build up to form Tank and Mech Corps.


It will be possible to build up a corps from support units? Nice!

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Post #: 503
RE: WitE 2 - 4/11/2016 10:20:47 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Anything that reduces the on map clutter on the Soviet side is a good thing. The late war Soviet on map units especially need thinning down. Maybe even division sized units should be attachable to HQs or corps in 44/45. Also if at least one HQ could stack for free that would help too.

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Post #: 504
RE: WitE 2 - 4/12/2016 8:38:07 AM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		It is not just 'clutter' that is being worked on. Pavel has coded a new right mouse click function so that much can be accessed without having to remember hot keys or manoeuvre the mouse cursor to the top tool bar. Screenshot gives a flavour and for the record the double rail art is placeholder quality.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 505
RE: WitE 2 - 4/12/2016 3:59:47 PM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Will Airfields be static on map or will be also AF base counters like now?
Thanks for preview.

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Post #: 506
RE: WitE 2 - 4/12/2016 4:54:17 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Airbases are static on the map like WitW.

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Post #: 507
RE: WitE 2 - 4/12/2016 6:59:21 PM   
Revthought


Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
What an odd thing to say. Cost and Time are for Matrix to decide - not those of us working directly on the game.



Well that's not entirely true, now is it.

If Matrix said "WITE2 releases tomorrow with Oculus compatibility and includes an integrated T34 simulation so the players can engage in tank battles and effect the outcome of the campaign!" that would be meaningless; unless, of course, those of you working directly on the game had finished the game, included Oculus compatibility, and built a dynamic tank simulator into the game.

Similarly, it costs money to pay you, so it's very unlikely such an announcement will included "AND the game is free!"

< Message edited by Revthought -- 4/12/2016 7:01:16 PM >

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Post #: 508
RE: WitE 2 - 4/12/2016 7:46:33 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		No - it is absolutely true.

I can state quite categorically that I have no existing contract or expectation of payment for my work on WitE2. I am first and foremost a volunteer and I do this in my free time because I enjoy doing so. I have a completely separate fulltime job. Volunteer effort is pivotal in delivering these games.

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 509
RE: WitE 2 - 4/12/2016 7:46:49 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		more odd comments, developers make games, publishers sell them and work out prices

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Post #: 510
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