Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Hello, some more WITE 2 questions/suggestions:
Blizzard: Will there be a non-artificial way to simulate the first winter? The soviet offensive should be made possible by generic rules. It was the consequence of worn out units, supply restrictions, attrition (especially of trains and trucks). When blizzard sets in the supply system collapses further and the counterattack can begin. If germans rest and refill the units, build fortifications and build up some supply reserves there should not be artificial rules to drop CV.

Stats: WITE provides so many numbers. Please include a good stats tracker in WITE 2. Suggestions:
-save stats in a text document for further use (like WITE already does)
-track everything possible: men, trucks, planes, Tanks lost/damaged/repaired this turn, ammunition and fuel used, industry and manpower output, VPs, average morale and whatever. If possible, even separated stats several kinds of losses ( trucks lost moving supplies/moving units/captured, losses to surrender/fighting/attrition).
-create a table similar to the CR (so you can order your turns after the men lust for example)
-create a chart which visualizes all the data in the table. Immersion will be even greater if you can see the losses peak when the soviet counterattack begins etc.

Game rules: Please create an ingame overview of hardcoded things like weather tables, NM, manpower factory & eastern front share multiplier and how it will change over the next 150 turns. Things like this change often and are not always updated in the manual so having an ingame window which is connected to the stats in the code would be great. In addition, you do not always have to open the manual Pdf to look for numbers you have forgotten.

Unit stacking: I think there is already an improved system on the way?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

...

WITE is already quite complex, i'am not sûre it would be a good idea to increase the overall complexity and especially turn time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Like this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

...

WITE is already quite complex, i'am not sûre it would be a good idea to increase the overall complexity and especially turn time.

I think its a mistake to assume the new stuff in WiTE2 is added onto WiTE. While a lot is going to be recognisable many systems are designed from bottom up and actually far more logical and less demanding.

So WiTW/WiTE2 does not need HQBU as an essential set of special rules designed to reflect supply prioritisation - with all the abuses that have grown up around it over the years.

In WiTW/WiTE2 you have essentially two tools and they are both relatively intuitive. Depots pulll supply into a region and do so on the basis of how large they are, how well connected (one on a dual train line might be able to pull in more than one on a single track line) and how important you make it. You can automate their construction (though playing the Germans I quite like to have control) and you can set priority but you have no control over size/rail links.

The second stage is to set the priority of supply for the commands reliant on that group of depots (borders are porous as you can use trucks to pull in supplies from further afield). This prioritisation both determines which units are supplied first (or possibly at all) and also how much supply (as a % of their need) they take up. So if you make everything low priority, supply will build up in the depots rather than go forward to the combat units.

Finally the game system moves 'freight' and then breaks that out to fuel/supply/ammo/replacements on delivery.

It does take some getting used to but its neat and elegant. If you have WiTW, I'd suggest playing the 3 France 44 scenarios as that will teach you a lot about how to use these building blocks and what happens to units put low down the supply delivery priority list and so on.

quote:

intuitive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

intuitive.

in·tu·i·tive


/inˈt(y)o͞oədiv/


adjective

adjective: intuitive

using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Hello, some more WITE 2 questions/suggestions:
Blizzard: Will there be a non-artificial way to simulate the first winter? The soviet offensive should be made possible by generic rules. It was the consequence of worn out units, supply restrictions, attrition (especially of trains and trucks). When blizzard sets in the supply system collapses further and the counterattack can begin. If germans rest and refill the units, build fortifications and build up some supply reserves there should not be artificial rules to drop CV.

Stats: WITE provides so many numbers. Please include a good stats tracker in WITE 2. Suggestions:
-save stats in a text document for further use (like WITE already does)
-track everything possible: men, trucks, planes, Tanks lost/damaged/repaired this turn, ammunition and fuel used, industry and manpower output, VPs, average morale and whatever. If possible, even separated stats several kinds of losses ( trucks lost moving supplies/moving units/captured, losses to surrender/fighting/attrition).
-create a table similar to the CR (so you can order your turns after the men lust for example)
-create a chart which visualizes all the data in the table. Immersion will be even greater if you can see the losses peak when the soviet counterattack begins etc.

Game rules: Please create an ingame overview of hardcoded things like weather tables, NM, manpower factory & eastern front share multiplier and how it will change over the next 150 turns. Things like this change often and are not always updated in the manual so having an ingame window which is connected to the stats in the code would be great. In addition, you do not always have to open the manual Pdf to look for numbers you have forgotten.

Unit stacking: I think there is already an improved system on the way?

Once again I emphasise that nothing is fixed but this is where we are todayish.

Blizzard: We have only just (this week!) added the first elements of this code. I don't want to get into specifics as things will no doubt change. Current rules include additional costs for truck movement, a reduction in Axis rail capability and frostbite rules to damage Axis ground elements and aircraft (reduced by terrain and fort levels). My view is that with increased losses the need to impose draconian blizzard rules is less to achieve historical parity.

Stats: We are adding to the WitW graphical charts. If you've not seen one I can post a screenshot.

Rules: Weather is not scripted like WitE, it's like WitW and is much more dynamic. Most of this data can be seen in the editor but having a hard code screen is a good idea but no promises.

Unit Stacking: in debate with no firm decision yet.

@ Stelteck: I understand your point of view completely. We are working hard to reduce complexity for the player but maximise some of the better systems (which are inherently more complex) like the logistics and air models to make the system more realistic.

- One suggestion that was posted in this thread by Sillyflower (afair) was to add an Auto Depot Creation system. We have done so.
- Air Divisions have been added to make moving air groups easier.
- We have taken Tank Brigades off the map and made other Bde units multirole so the player can choose. This has reduced counter count.
- We have simplified factory evacuation (not a simple task) - all factories are now set to evacuate to their historical locations at historical times. You can move them early and they will auto move if capture is imminent with 100% damage. So for the soviet player you can ignore the factory evacuation system completely if you so wish.
- Garrisons. This has yet to be added but I'm on pretty safe ground saying that it won't be like the WitE whackamole system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

The support unit system is great in WITE. The way to administer it is not. I think a lot of it is the GUI. Could there be a screen to simply list all the support units and then tell them where to go by one click or drag and dropping?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

I ought to highlight that in the new system moving SUs has in impact on logistics and costs freight (like replacements). There is no magical movement of SUs across the map.

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

intuitive.

in·tu·i·tive


/inˈt(y)o͞oədiv/


adjective

adjective: intuitive

using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.

Pelton

I'm sorry but I totally fail to understand the point you are trying to make?

As in WiTW I am sure you can build a detailed spreadsheet that combines depot capacity with typical unit needs and control it all that way. But as in WiTW this is a bit tricky as while the depot-unit relationship is clearly geographical units can pull supply from further away (at a cost in trucks). This is realistic enough as there are reports from July 41 of German formations sending part of their supply trucks back to Poland to grab supplies.

The consequence is I don't think there is a purely mathematical relationship between depot capacity and unit need on most of the map in good weather. Things are more problematic say in the Valdai where the Germans will struggle to get a decent depot system in place and once the weather starts to turn (when truck movement is restricted).

Now I'll be honest, I don't spend my gaming time looking for gamey exploits but since the game is being tested like everyone
I am looking to stretch game systems to see where they break.
So far the WiTE2 logistical model gives broadly sensible results consistently.
If you have discovered an exploit from WiTW don't you think you should share it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
Many of the anomalies in the WitW system did not become visible until applied to the longer distances of the East Front.