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RE: WitE 2 - 10/23/2015 11:22:40 AM   
Kharkov

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/7/2003
From: Birmingham
Status: offline 		Even though I bought WitE I only dabbled in it; the amount of time required to play and amount of counters put me off. However I always thought that instead of taking on the whole German side or Soviet side in the grand campaign, it would be more my playstyle just to control a subset of units, maybe an army or Army Group and letting the AI play the other units on my side. Maybe some objectives could be given to my command based on the overall ambitions of the sides AI.

I'm sure this facility was present in the GG's Pac War game but maybe my memory is getting confused...

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Post #: 121
RE: WitE 2 - 10/23/2015 3:10:14 PM   
Rongor

 

Posts: 451
Joined: 3/25/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kharkov
However I always thought that instead of taking on the whole German side or Soviet side in the grand campaign, it would be more my playstyle just to control a subset of units, maybe an army or Army Group and letting the AI play the other units on my side.

That would actually be great. Imagine to hand over the control of the adjacent Heeresgruppe to a buddy in Multiplayer.
Imagine 3+ guys sharing the work, each one doing an army or Heeresgruppe or the Air force. And the enemy players doing the same. What a great Multiplayer experience that would be

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Post #: 122
RE: WitE 2 - 10/23/2015 3:15:48 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I think WitW Torch expansion allows 2 players per side, one doing air, the other doing land. Unfortunately no way to divide land forces between more players.

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Post #: 123
RE: WitE 2 - 10/23/2015 5:05:57 PM   
Rongor

 

Posts: 451
Joined: 3/25/2014
Status: offline 		yep, that is why we can only hope for future projects like WITE2 to maybe offer something like that. Personally I would prefer sharing land forces so much more than splitting into dedicated players for land and air.

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Post #: 124
RE: WitE 2 - 10/23/2015 6:32:18 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Separating OOB command is very difficult.

I'm wondering whether increased MP would be possible/worthwhile not by separating Army Group / Front control but the role of Commander / Chief of Staff / Logistics. Someone does all the OOB tidying and coord, one person is only able to move the counters and then the expert does the logistics.

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Post #: 125
RE: WitE 2 - 10/23/2015 6:46:11 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		A dedicated industry/production/strategy slot would be good in a team game.

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Post #: 126
RE: WitE 2 - 10/23/2015 8:04:33 PM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		A word of advice, play with people you don't know

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Post #: 127
RE: WitE 2 - 10/24/2015 11:59:11 AM   
IslandInland


Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kharkov

Even though I bought WitE I only dabbled in it; the amount of time required to play and amount of counters put me off. However I always thought that instead of taking on the whole German side or Soviet side in the grand campaign, it would be more my playstyle just to control a subset of units, maybe an army or Army Group and letting the AI play the other units on my side. Maybe some objectives could be given to my command based on the overall ambitions of the sides AI.

I'm sure this facility was present in the GG's Pac War game but maybe my memory is getting confused...


I often think this when i'm playing both WITE and WITW. Sometimes I would love to be able to take control of an army or army group and leave the rest to the AI. I would even like to designate a theatre to the AI, such as Italy in WITW.

In Decisive Campaigns The Blitzkrieg From Warsaw To Paris the player can control just an army in some of the scenarios while the AI controls the rest. I would love to see this feature implemented in WITE 2.0.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to the new game and will be buying it on day one of release.



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Post #: 128
RE: WitE 2 - 10/25/2015 12:20:31 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Along with downgrading at-start Russian leadership and increasing its promotion opportunities, what about introducing leadership penalties for all command transfers? A method that occurred to me is to reduce all leadership modifiers from the new HQ to, say, '3' and increase them each turn, perhaps automatically in increments or, better, by leadership admin modified die roll. That would allow efficient admin HQs to assimilate new subordinates more rapidly than others. If a unit has been transferred up/down a command chain it will still receive HHQ leadership unchanged, if from another AG/Front, assimilation of the new unit will be more difficult or potentially give higher temporary penalties.

This method would allow for a base benefit of a HQ while effectively reducing supplies, mp, combat and other abilities for a variable assimilation period.

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Post #: 129
RE: WitE 2 - 10/26/2015 6:38:41 PM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline 		Good reading. LOTS I could say but I will keep it to a few.

Even bad ideas can provide insight so here are a few of mine.

Will take the right palette to paint the different combats that took place on the Eastern Front.
Provide the palette, not premixed colors.

Was it the 1st winter that hurt the Germans so bad? Or was it "pressing on" through mud and slush (a unit's track/wheels/horses/men spread out over a 100 miles), exhausted, under-supplied, that set the Germans up for defeat, even in a "normal" winter - if such a thing exists.

One beauty of this series is that combat elements do the fighting. Get all the game elementals right and the molecules will fall into their place.



En passant Combat, the I go/you go Land War needs what was done to the Air War.

< Message edited by KWG -- 10/26/2015 7:43:22 PM >

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Post #: 130
RE: WitE 2 - 10/26/2015 6:47:00 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		The Germans were completely and utterly spent when the winter blizzard hit. IMO the game system is not assessing nearly enough disabled losses as it should. THe design decision was to use the blizzard to arbitrarily move manpower out of units and into the German disabled pools to get their CVs low enough to allow the Soviets to attack in the winter of 41.


Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Good reading. LOTS I could say but I will keep it to a few.

Even bad ideas can provide insight so here are a few of mine.

Will take the right palette to paint the different combats that took place on the Eastern Front.
Provide the palette, not premixed colors.

Was it the 1st winter that hurt the Germans so bad? Or was it "pressing on" through mud and slush (a unit's track/wheels/horses/men spread out over a 100 miles), exhausted, under-supplied, that set the Germans up for defeat, even in a "normal" winter - if such a thing exists.

One beauty of this series is that combat elements do the fighting. Get all the game elementals right and the molecules will fall into their place.



En passant, the I go, you go Land War needs what was done to the Air War.



_____________________________

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WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to KWG)
Post #: 131
RE: WitE 2 - 10/26/2015 7:56:30 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

The Germans were completely and utterly spent when the winter blizzard hit. IMO the game system is not assessing nearly enough disabled losses as it should.

And that's the flip to Pelton's argument. Both sides too often quickly end up with OOBs wildly in excess of the historical, even with intense fighting. Loss calculation needs addressing badly. When I was was playing Russian a lot, some patches ago,I used to have to cycle troops to and from front all the time to keep them at strength (which I suspect drew on an exaggerated manpower pool). Is this still the case?



< Message edited by Mehring -- 10/26/2015 8:57:05 PM >

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Post #: 132
RE: WitE 2 - 10/26/2015 8:12:45 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		It was only because they didn't refill at front, not because resources were lacking. With I go you go turns it was putting withdrawing side at severe disadvantage. Advancing side was free to refill, then they advanced and blocked the same for withdrawing side.

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Post #: 133
RE: WitE 2 - 10/26/2015 9:58:20 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rongor


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kharkov
However I always thought that instead of taking on the whole German side or Soviet side in the grand campaign, it would be more my playstyle just to control a subset of units, maybe an army or Army Group and letting the AI play the other units on my side.

That would actually be great. Imagine to hand over the control of the adjacent Heeresgruppe to a buddy in Multiplayer.
Imagine 3+ guys sharing the work, each one doing an army or Heeresgruppe or the Air force. And the enemy players doing the same. What a great Multiplayer experience that would be


You can do this already in multiplayer as long as you use the PBEM system not the servers. Most of my games have involved playing Russians jointly with Belphegor who lives 7 time zones away. We split the map in half. I did most of the strategic stuff such as factory evac, allocating reinforcements and buying new units, and he took the airforce. It was more flexible in real life but that was more or less the plan. Only once did we play multiple opponents tho' and the disappeared in Jan '42

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Post #: 134
RE: WitE 2 - 10/28/2015 4:40:06 PM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline 		Is it true that in both WitW and WitE replacements move straight from the pool to the units in one turn, as freight?

Maybe there should be more than one type freight, and all should move along the supply chain per the physical world. Priority levels could be given to each type of freight.


Combat losses
Played some Red Thunder this summer. Sometimes the challenge was not the 30 mins of combat, but in the 1hr of regrouping getting - to the friendly wounded soldiers and disabled vehicles.

Some things I noticed:

Whether on offense/defense/meeting enagement

1- One side overwhelms the other - Advances or stops advance
2- Advancing side "spent and licking wounds" - Advances at cost
3- Both sides "spent and licking wounds" - Advances or stops advance
4- Both sides light/moderate losses - Cautious advance or cautious withdraw


< Message edited by KWG -- 10/28/2015 5:52:19 PM >

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Post #: 135
RE: WitE 2 - 11/1/2015 9:57:56 AM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Reduce Russian Airborne HQ command capacity to 4. Disband them when their subordinate brigades are either destroyed/re-assigned out of the corps HQ or consolidated as guards divisions. These HQs are used in a really gamey way by some players.



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Post #: 136
RE: WitE 2 - 11/1/2015 11:49:44 AM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		I know this has been mentioned elsewhere but I was wondering if a unit renaming ability was to be introduced. Also both sides I think, should have the ability to create historical units. Between renaming and the ability to create new units, anomalies such as the non-exhaustive examples below should be accounted for-

From 1942 scenario there is a Latvian SS motorised brigade which never appears in 1941 scenario, the Russians have AA DD airbases. In 1943 Axis have several Field Training Infantry Divisions, an Aunus Finnish army HQ, Russians have an SAK Airbase. In 44 scenario AGN has a Narva Detachment Army HQ which I don't recall in the 1941 game at any time, also numerous air HQs have been renamed/redesignated.

I'm personally not in favour of automatic location designations such as Voronezh Front. Perhaps such new units could have their historical names appear as default with a renaming option. As for non-locational designations, they might be implemented automatically. Perhaps the various ad hoc units and HQs created by the Axis could be listed, along with an AP cost to build them and any situational prerequisites.

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Post #: 137
RE: WitE 2 - 11/1/2015 12:07:59 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		picking up on this, and I realise this is purely flavour. Being able to rename Soviet fronts would be nice, to reflect their location during the period to late 43 when they were named geographically and then after the renumbering to Baltic/Bielorussian/Ukrainian.

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Post #: 138
RE: WitE 2 - 11/1/2015 12:11:54 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Good points. Some of this will be fixed with the standardized unit list that I am developing to make sure that units are consistent from campaign to campaign. Renaming of units is problematic because the AI uses those names to formulate its strategy. Another good point about the situational HQs and I am not sure what we are going to do about that. The field training divisions offer another dilemma because they were training units whose primary purpose was to provide trained replacements for the field army but they also ended up fighting.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

I know this has been mentioned elsewhere but I was wondering if a unit renaming ability was to be introduced. Also both sides I think, should have the ability to create historical units. Between renaming and the ability to create new units, anomalies such as the non-exhaustive examples below should be accounted for-

From 1942 scenario there is a Latvian SS motorised brigade which never appears in 1941 scenario, the Russians have AA DD airbases. In 1943 Axis have several Field Training Infantry Divisions, an Aunus Finnish army HQ, Russians have an SAK Airbase. In 44 scenario AGN has a Narva Detachment Army HQ which I don't recall in the 1941 game at any time, also numerous air HQs have been renamed/redesignated.

I'm personally not in favour of automatic location designations such as Voronezh Front. Perhaps such new units could have their historical names appear as default with a renaming option. As for non-locational designations, they might be implemented automatically. Perhaps the various ad hoc units and HQs created by the Axis could be listed, along with an AP cost to build them and any situational prerequisites.



_____________________________

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WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 139
RE: WitE 2 - 11/1/2015 12:19:01 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		If the AI is an issue, would it be possible to uncouple solo from H2H code for renaming purposes?

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Post #: 140
RE: WitE 2 - 11/1/2015 3:25:24 PM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		Hmmm... have always thought "renaming" would be a nice feature to suggest, but maybe its too costly when there are many other desired features.

Some suggestions:

commentary lines in HQ & unit displays,
jump to unit on map from displays with unit lists,
aggregate CVs for HQs to reflect subordinated CVs,
Commanders' Reports to show OOB structure w/CVs or new summary OOB w/CVs report.


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Post #: 141
RE: WitE 2 - 11/2/2015 10:59:19 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Will be buying WITE2 the day it's released.

Keep up the great work guys!!

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Post #: 142
RE: WitE 2 - 11/4/2015 7:06:20 AM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Reintroduce leader loss. Now at late 1942 and I haven't lost a single officer, don't think my Russian opponent has lost too many either in spite of numerous pocketed HQs. I don't think pandering to player whinging cos they lost their favourite commander is a good enough reason to immortalise the officer corps. At least, please give us a game option to make them human.

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Post #: 143
RE: WitE 2 - 11/4/2015 7:17:11 AM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		What about city migration management?

Russian player designates cities to be evacuated and it takes X weeks to fully complete, or at least, to evacuate the not old and sick. During this time, a reduction according to population size is made to rail capacity and the eagerly awaited hex supply/movement throughput capacity along local high infrastructure (quasi road) hexes. If a captured city is not so designated, its population stays in place if surrounded and captured; a very high proportion of population remains if captured while un-surrounded.

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Post #: 144
RE: WitE 2 - 11/4/2015 9:04:31 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

I've seen lots of leaders lost in WiTW....Bradley in II Corp invading Sicily. I have even seen Goering removed from Luftwaffe Command, OKL.



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Post #: 145
RE: WitE 2 - 11/4/2015 11:50:38 AM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		Officers still die in the WITE game I'm playing.

Think you have just been lucky on the rolls. All they did was reduce the % chance of officers being casualties which makes sense from the absurd loss rate it was previously from my understanding.

Corps/Army commanders didnt really become KIA all that often when think of the overall amount of commanders on the battlefield in this game. Usually only in catastrophic situations did corps/army commanders become losses or fluke accidents/bad luck. Not sure what the % is at current but I have lost commanders on the Soviet side for sure in me and Peltons game.


(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 146
RE: WitE 2 - 11/4/2015 12:04:21 PM   
Bozo_the_Clown


Posts: 890
Joined: 6/25/2013
From: Bozotown
Status: offline
quote:

Now at late 1942 and I haven't lost a single officer, don't think my Russian opponent has lost too many either in spite of numerous pocketed HQs.


The old system was silly. I don't want to see games anymore were players do bombing runs on HQs to kill leaders. Ideally, you could have a slider for this game function to adjust the likelihood that leaders get killed. Also, it would be nice if the dismissal of leaders would actually be related to performance. My impression is that this is all totally random.

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Post #: 147
RE: WitE 2 - 11/8/2015 12:57:54 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Revisiting WitE 2 suggestions, expanding unit stances? This would help raise losses and might enhance representation of national characteristics.

How about-

Defence- per hex
Delay- low morale threshold for retreat, no entrenching past level 1. Mot/Mech/Cav units receive bonus to retreat undamaged heavy equipment w/o loss chances.
Default- Normal morale threshold for retreat.
Determined. Modified by unit morale, defenders will take high losses before breaking, with increased rout/shatter risk if threshold is crossed. Entrenching bonus. Soviets might get an early war morale bonus defending cities.

Attack-

Assault Preparation- Supply priority, somewhat like current HQ buildup with movement penalty. Unit stance.
Reserve- As is- Unit stance.
Determined Attack- Higher morale threshold before attack called off. All units in an attack
Default- Normal attack, no bonus/penalty. All units in an attack
Scout/probe- Hasty attack option. All units in single attacking hex

So that would be three new stances.

Also, has the ability to convert adjacent hexes/exert ZOC according to actual unit size and composition rather than size designation been considered? Apart from the obvious absurdity of weak and depleted "divisions" having more such power than stronger brigades and regiments, I've often wondered about the value of ACs and other light recon vehicles. I assume they have little combat ability but they could and I think should add to these unit capabilities




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Post #: 148
RE: WitE 2 - 11/8/2015 2:41:45 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		I always like the old europa game series theory that for units to exercise a Zoc required at least a regiment of artillery. So usually only divisions had Zoc's unless you also had smaller units deployed with independent artillery regiments if I remember right.

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 149
RE: WitE 2 - 11/8/2015 8:44:22 PM   
rlp2

 

Posts: 452
Joined: 9/24/2000
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Bozo_the_Clown,

I have to say I'm really enjoying your avatar pictures of Hitler. The one with the dolphin jumping thru the hoop while Hitler is giving his speech was great!

This one with the table is also great!

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Post #: 150
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