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RE: Russians in Syria - 11/24/2015 6:18:10 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Turkey was in their rights IF this is a true representation of what happened.

However, Turkey should think twice before taking that kind of drastic action. Instead they could have locked AA missile battery radar on the Russian jet, and even scrambled fighters to escort the Russian out of its airspace. Turkey is too uncooperative, and its leaders too dumb...Turkey and its leadership is not worth WWIII.

Russia will punish Turkey militarily for this, Turkey will invoke article 5, no one will respond, NATO will be in danger of collapse. All this because of no western leadership.

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Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Stimpak)
Post #: 91
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/24/2015 6:59:58 PM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1452
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		That is a serious over reaction for Turkey, that strip of turkey is a mere 2-3km wide, the Russian aircraft would of flown over it in seconds, the fact they were warned 10 times suggests they were hitting targets very near the border, is turkey allowing a Syria civil war faction to operate from within its borders??

I wouldn't be surprised if Russian CAP started happening near the border region they already mentioned increased air defence or maybe divert some S300 deliveries from Iran to Syria. we might see a wider array of Russian equipment being deployed to the region.

NATO has to defend Turkey, it cant afford to become something akin to the league of nations, although I think the Turkish airforce is going to come under pressure to fly very carefully in the coming weeks else a mistake could cost Turkey/NATO.



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Post #: 92
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/24/2015 7:06:17 PM   
ivanov


Posts: 1107
Joined: 6/14/2013
From: European Union
Status: offline 		According to NATO, Russian plane was flying during 17 seconds over the Turkish territory. Russians already stated that they are going to deploy to Syria a cruiser with naval version of S-300. Also, all their attack planes will fly now with the fighter escort.

< Message edited by katukov -- 11/25/2015 1:06:35 AM >

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Post #: 93
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/24/2015 7:40:34 PM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1452
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Gotta love the internet at times




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Post #: 94
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/24/2015 10:39:42 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Ha, ha! That was a good one Tazak!

Turkey admitted the Russians were two seconds over Turkish airspace...but warned them prior. Obviously they were shot down in Syrian space.

That area where this is happening Turkey grabbed in 1939 and was never recognized by Syria or France.

Of course Turkey is taking advantage of the civil war (including helping ISIS...where do you think their oil goes to be sold?...and the transit point for ISIS fighters)...the only ones they do not help are the Kurds.

In my opinion Turkey is part of the problem today...and has been for 15 years.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Tazak)
Post #: 95
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/24/2015 10:53:29 PM   
Stimpak


Posts: 632
Joined: 8/23/2015
From: BC, Canada
Status: offline 		I think we should see increased arms supply to kurdish fighters on either side of the border...

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Post #: 96
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 1:38:03 AM   
mikeCK

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline 		Look, this was not the first time the Russians have violated Turkish Airspace. They have done this repeatedly and have been repeatedly warned not to. They continued to do it and this particular plane was warned 10 times. The U.S. Stationed addition F-15s there because if these incessant violations of airspace Russia wants to Bully its neighbors and got punched. Turkey was tired of the lack of respect for its sovereignty and airspace. Drastic? Maybe...but how many times is it supposed to allow Russian military aircraft to overfly its territory.

This is from October. They told the Russians they were risking a conflict back then

http://m.sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151006/1028085238/russia-turkey-airspace-violation.html


< Message edited by mikeCK -- 11/25/2015 2:42:48 AM >

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Post #: 97
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 2:34:19 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		I agree Stimpak, the Kurds deserve our support!

As for the Turks, they should know shooting down a plane could start something much bigger. Other NATO members have escorted Russian aircraft away.

Taking Putin's psychology, face saving, and political issues into account, you know there will be retaliation. The question is what? In a way, I think this is exactly what Putin has wanted. This gives him the chance to unravel NATO. He has 14 months to do what he wants since there is no western leadership with the stomach to stand up to him (or the Chinese)...or even ISIS.

Jordan was angry about their executed pilot and swore they would bring hell to ISIS, what did they do?...a few bombing runs. UAE quit the "coalition" because the coalition was not serious about the fight. France attacks ISIS with a few bombing runs, brings a carrier into theater, and does not have the guts to invoke NATO article 5. The US gives 45 min warning to any attacks. Weak, very weak. Only the Kurds are doing anything.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to mikeCK)
Post #: 98
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 4:06:59 AM   
Stimpak


Posts: 632
Joined: 8/23/2015
From: BC, Canada
Status: offline 		Turkey is hypocritical to complain of other's violations, let alone shoot down a plane for it, given that they regularly violate Greek airspace.

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Post #: 99
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 5:02:29 AM   
batteran

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/18/2012
From: New Caledonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stimpak
Turkey is hypocritical to complain of other's violations, let alone shoot down a plane for it, given that they regularly violate Greek airspace.


Turkey have lost a plane in Syria in 2012, from a border violation too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2012_interception_of_Turkish_aircraft

Their response at that time:

quote:

Gül said that "it is routine for jet fighters to sometimes fly in and out over [national] borders



< Message edited by batteran -- 11/25/2015 6:02:55 AM >

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Post #: 100
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 11:03:01 AM   
ivanov


Posts: 1107
Joined: 6/14/2013
From: European Union
Status: offline 		Russia to deploy S-400 to Syria




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Post #: 101
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 1:03:37 PM   
ivanov


Posts: 1107
Joined: 6/14/2013
From: European Union
Status: offline 		Meanwhile on CNN...




Pro so much, trying so hard. Wow!

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Post #: 102
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 4:43:35 PM   
Stimpak


Posts: 632
Joined: 8/23/2015
From: BC, Canada
Status: offline 		My contemporaries and I have made somewhat of an inside joke in which we never refer to Russian equipment without first mis-identifying it.
One of our favorites is routinely swapping the names of the T-62 and T-64

< Message edited by Stimpak -- 11/25/2015 5:44:03 PM >

(in reply to ivanov)
Post #: 103
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/25/2015 5:32:07 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Stimpak, you are a funny guy! Maybe its one of your buds working over at CNN?

CNN sucks! Nothing funnier though than when MSNBC was pranked on TV when that Malaysian airliner was shot down in Ukraine.

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 11/25/2015 6:35:07 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Stimpak)
Post #: 104
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/28/2015 6:43:57 PM   
comte


Posts: 2358
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline 		The Tsar and the Sultan




Attachment (1)

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But when Territories are acquired in regions where there are differences in language, customs, and laws then great good fortune and much hard work are required to hold them.

-Machiavelli, Il Principe, Book III-

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 105
RE: Russians in Syria - 11/29/2015 3:31:24 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Now this is how professionals (adults) do it:

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-plane-entered-israel-control-zone-syria-minister-101841440.html

Turkey is up to some BS...is it the ISIS oil they are profiting from?...or trying to support the Turkmen in Syria?...or something else?...and would they be willing to drag NATO into it? Either drop Turkey from NATO (do we really need them?), or they should have been rebuked for their actions...unfortunately we do not have the leadership anywhere in the west for this.

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 11/29/2015 4:33:28 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to comte)
Post #: 106
RE: Russians in Syria - 12/1/2015 8:50:50 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		And now this:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/russia-sends-nuclear-war-signals-turkey/

Check out what one Russian MP says what could happen...to wipe out Istanbul...

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 107
RE: Russians in Syria - 3/1/2016 6:57:10 PM   
Stimpak


Posts: 632
Joined: 8/23/2015
From: BC, Canada
Status: offline 		Well, T-90s are officially in action now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Zp37Kdr5Y

Infact, they're already getting shot up by TOWs. Looks like the Shtora-1 either failed or simply wasn't active. A crewman also successfully bailed, and judging from that (And the turret still being firmly attached to the tank) it seems like it survived the hit.

What do you guys think? "Fallen out"?

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 108
RE: Russians in Syria - 3/5/2016 3:09:38 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I would classify anything that doesn't burn as "Fallen Out".

Good Hunting.

MR

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Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 109
RE: Russians in Syria - 3/5/2016 5:19:10 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Rumor coming from the YPG is that Javelin's have made their way to them and the battlefield...read this a couple weeks ago. US denying they gave any, but photos and videos have come out. If its true, the Russians are smart to work with the Kurds for multiple reasons, but the T-90's could be in trouble if Javelin's fall into the wrong hands. Turkey is probably freaking out by now...bye, bye Turkish armor if there is a wider Kurd/Turk conflict.

Javelin's FYI: Fire and forget. Kind of the land version of Stinger's.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 110
RE: Russians in Syria - 3/8/2016 8:43:44 PM   
TheWombat_matrixforum

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline 		The comments on that piece about the T-90 indicate that it in fact was not destroyed or even fallen out, that after the panicking crewman got back in it drove off. I have no idea how reliable that is, but it makes a certain degree of sense, if the reactive armor did its job.

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 111
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