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RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/9/2015 5:34:10 AM

ChadS

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Just two days ago, reported enemy strength in Changsha was about 28000 troops. Today, it is reported at over 130k troops.
Ichang, which only fell 4 days ago now has 105k troops. the town west of Kaifeng has about 76k in it

It's December 28, 1941. In this image, I'm trying to push the Chinese west of the rail line, to open up better Strat Moves to Hankow and Wuchang.

Question is this--are these troop reports accurate? I'm basing this off the combat reports, as well as the rollover information in particular hexes.

If it is accurate, where are they all coming from? Do I need to work on cutting off their supply?

The colors for Allies haven't been adjusted. For Japan, white is the smallest units, and then they progress to darker shades of gray for larger units.

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Post #: 91

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/9/2015 5:54:42 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

How, if at all, do you use Sub Tenders, DD Tenders, and the like? I thought they'd refuel/reload subs, but I'm not seeing that happen.

Be sure that they have supply. They do work as you describe above ....

Right - a lot of players get tripped up when they move a tender that has supply and forget to set "DO NOT UNLOAD", so the tender gets to the new base and promptly unloads all the cargo it needs to be able to service ships/subs/seaplanes.

You can start loading the tenders when they are disbanded in port using the "load tenders" button, but this only provides the amount of supply that could be loaded in one phase (12 hours) -- presumably because it is leaving some operations points for the tender to service vessels/aircraft.
If there are no units to service at the time, it is better to put the tender in a Support TF and dock it to load during both phases.
Don't forget to set "DO NOT UNLOAD", and "Auto Disband" so it will disband when finished loading. Tenders load slowly so it may take several turns.

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Post #: 92

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/9/2015 5:59:15 AM

BBfanboy

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The numbers of troops in Chinese units can seem overwhelming at first, but with almost no artillery or HMGs or AFVs or AA they are not all that dangerous to the IJA unless they are defending in good terrain. The area you have shown in your screenshot is where the Chinese have the most troops at game start so the numbers you are seeing are likely close to accurate. Don't worry about it, just go in the direction you want.

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Post #: 93

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/9/2015 8:38:05 PM

ChadS

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Thanks, folks!

So, with the Tenders--do they only work at a port, or should they work at sea, like a refuel TF does (with an AO)? Do AGs work? I recall a thread on those, where it was indicated they don't work, or aren't able to work until a particular time in the war? I don't recall the specifics, and I'm not finding it. Probably not too important.

On China/Chinese and their overwhelming numbers. If I'm in a rough or wooded area, and they come in, I'm the defender--I assume I get some bonuses there. Is there any point in bombing/shelling them if they aren't in Open terrain? I'm guessing it's really just a modifier (I've reviewed the chart) but I'm not certain I entirely understand and grasp the overall impact of those numbers. Currently, I'm just trying to push them away, out of the area I want to control (Changsha to Kaifeng, and the railroad lines between). Not sure if lots of little battles, or one big battle is more effective.

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Post #: 94

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/9/2015 9:00:19 PM

Yaab

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Arty bombardment lets you see what units you oppose, disables Chinese squads, and raises your exp (though it raises the defender's exp too).

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Post #: 95

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/9/2015 9:36:24 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

Thanks, folks!

So, with the Tenders--do they only work at a port, or should they work at sea, like a refuel TF does (with an AO)? Do AGs work? I recall a thread on those, where it was indicated they don't work, or aren't able to work until a particular time in the war? I don't recall the specifics, and I'm not finding it. Probably not too important.

The only tenders that can work at sea are AOs and AEs (NOT AKEs). Everything else must be in port, usually disbanded.

On China/Chinese and their overwhelming numbers. If I'm in a rough or wooded area, and they come in, I'm the defender--I assume I get some bonuses there. Is there any point in bombing/shelling them if they aren't in Open terrain? I'm guessing it's really just a modifier (I've reviewed the chart) but I'm not certain I entirely understand and grasp the overall impact of those numbers. Currently, I'm just trying to push them away, out of the area I want to control (Changsha to Kaifeng, and the railroad lines between). Not sure if lots of little battles, or one big battle is more effective.

By all means bombard - you have lots of supply and they have little. It forces them to shoot back and use their supply.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 96

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/10/2015 11:24:32 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Question is this--are these troop reports accurate? I'm basing this off the combat reports, as well as the rollover information in particular hexes.

From my experience I've seen the reported numbers as high as twice the actual in the hex. I know because as I was learning against the AI I looked. My take on this is simple FOW. How much contact/combat/recon did I have on said unit. As said above the Chinese have a lot of troops in the area, but they are generally of poor quality. In the clear terrain you should be able to pretty much push them around any way you want, just don't get too reckless. In clear base hexes you'll only have problems if he can manage to get his fort levels pretty high.

A good way of gauging your chances in combat is to bombard and look at the raw AV values in the combat report. If the numbers look good you can attack the next turn and should take the hex. Always keep in mind that there's a lot going on under the hood and you will from time to time be unpleasantly surprised when you think you have a sure thing.

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Post #: 97

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/11/2015 6:05:42 PM

ChadS

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Questions on garrisoning towns.

Is there a benefit to garrisoning every town I come upon? Or, should I be selective--garrison the ones at key transport points, or that hold resources/factories, etc?

In some games, "partisans" pop up and I'm not clear if that's the case here. All I've read indicates that they can damage facilities. I'm OK with that in some spots--Kweisui, for example.

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Post #: 98

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/11/2015 6:25:56 PM

GetAssista

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Every base has garrison requirements. Most have them at zero, but some show "Garrison level X/Y" or "Garrison level Y met" for your ones or "Garrison level Y" for enemy ones. Y is the AV you need to keep at the base to not have guerilla activity there. X is your current AV at the base. Most of big cities have those requirements.

Apart from garrison requirements it's up to you. You can go lightly against AI since it rarely uses paratroopers. But human player will punish you for light garrisons in key junctions

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RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/11/2015 7:25:23 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

Questions on garrisoning towns.

Is there a benefit to garrisoning every town I come upon? Or, should I be selective--garrison the ones at key transport points, or that hold resources/factories, etc?

In some games, "partisans" pop up and I'm not clear if that's the case here. All I've read indicates that they can damage facilities. I'm OK with that in some spots--Kweisui, for example.

Allowing partisans to attack an undefended base does two things:

- although the message says you lose victory points, it really just gives the enemy VPs (usually only one or two)
- it inflicts a random amount of damage on the base facilities

The AI allows a really astounding amount of damage in one turn for partisans! For example they can cause 99% damage to a level 7 runway, which is presumably hard surfaced. Do they have bulldozers or something?

Even worse, for an island location the Port is the first thing they seem to wreck, so if you intend to bring in troops to build it up or commence operations, they have to be in amphib mode to land.

EDIT: PS - the VPs can be gained every turn, even if the base is already totally wrecked, but typically attacks take place once every two or three turns if there is no garrison at all, and less often if there is a garrison that is smaller than required.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 11/11/2015 8:28:24 PM >

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Post #: 100

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/12/2015 3:23:19 AM

ChadS

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OK, so aside from the VP loss, for bases I have really no interest in at all, there's no need to garrison. That's what I'm hearing. And, a deficient garrison is better than no garrison.

Seems Japan doesn't have the manpower to control the world.... ;)

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Post #: 101

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/12/2015 5:21:51 AM

rustysi

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There are ways to garrison all bases. Units may be split, components may be flown into a base to fulfill the requirements. Why give up VP's and have bases needlessly damaged?

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Post #: 102

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/12/2015 4:09:50 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS
Seems Japan doesn't have the manpower to control the world.... ;)

It may, in the beginning. But in 1942 it gets hosts of unrestricted naval guard (av 60) and garrison (av 160) units. No problems with garrisoning the world in stock 1, at least wrt fulfilling garrison requirements

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Post #: 103

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/16/2015 4:25:14 AM

ChadS

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For garrison purposes, what constitutes the Northwest Control Zone?

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Post #: 104

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/16/2015 5:35:29 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

For garrison purposes, what constitutes the Northwest Control Zone?

Where did you see the words "Northwest Control Zone" ?

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Post #: 105

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/17/2015 8:48:50 PM

ChadS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

For garrison purposes, what constitutes the Northwest Control Zone?

Where did you see the words "Northwest Control Zone" ?

In the Game Manual, page 201:

Any unit in the Northwest Control Zone counts toward this requirement. If the total is not met, there will be a small chance each day that the Soviets will activate

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Post #: 106

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/17/2015 9:12:47 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

For garrison purposes, what constitutes the Northwest Control Zone?

Where did you see the words "Northwest Control Zone" ?

In the Game Manual, page 201:

Any unit in the Northwest Control Zone counts toward this requirement. If the total is not met, there will be a small chance each day that the Soviets will activate

OK, that refers to Kwantung Army in Manchukuo for sure but I am not clear on whether the Kwantung Army in Korea is part of the 8000 AV minimum you need. Since Korea has no garrison requirements and is pretty safe from invasion until 1944, I move all units to Manchukuo and work from there.

You can buy out a lot of the artillery and AA units from Manchukuo because there is no loss of AV when you do so (but PP are scarce too). There are several thousand surplus AV in Manchukuo you can buy out. Most Japan players buy the tanks because of speed, firepower and lack or Chinese A/T weapons.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 107

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/17/2015 9:16:56 PM

ChadS

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This is an app I wrote to keep track of the things I want to do in game. It's a "checklist," of sorts. I'm putting it here, because I can't attach it to the AAR forum, where someone requested it.

As I said in that post:

I offer it as-is, with no warranty or support, etc., etc., etc. I did not obfuscate it from the original MSIL (for those that know what that means), and I can supply the source code if anyone really, really wants to see it. Basically, I have no reason to believe it will cause anyone a problem on their Windows based system.

Things to know:

1. You must have the .Net Framework 4.0 or later installed (That's Microsoft.Net framework).
2. The zip contains 2 files--the executable, and a config. The config technically allows you to change the name of the save file, though I haven't messed with it to test it. I figure 1 checklist is enough for me.
3. The save file will be created automatically after you create an entry. It saves automatically after every update to the file, or when you close the app.
4. You may have to run it "as administrator" for it to work (since it writes to the drive--some configurations shouldn't require this).
5. It is possible for the file to get corrupt. I haven't had this happen, but thought I should at least mention it. If you back up your other tools (Tracker, etc.) you probably should back this up, too.
6. Turn must be entered as a number. The other two fields (location and text) are not required, except one of them must have something in it.
7. I can't at all recall what I did the "repeat every turn" checkbox for, and I don't even know for sure it works. I left it in, to keep from having to retest everything, and it probably works just fine...if you find a use for it, great.
8. You right-click on items to "clear" them or "delete" them. Deleting them is permanent. Clearing them is not. I think I did that so you could go back and reuse an item over and over, without having to guess when you would next need it. I think I intended for this to replace the "every turn" check, but I'm not sure.

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Post #: 108

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/17/2015 9:43:49 PM

Lowpe

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Korea & Manchuko.

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RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/18/2015 6:56:42 AM

RogerJNeilson

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Hi Chad

Downloaded and ready to test out, thanks. Will get back to you.

Roger

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RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/18/2015 8:37:20 AM

RogerJNeilson

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Ok installed fine and simple to use.

However when closed and reopened it says the current turn is 1 - it isn't on my test it is 1037. So it does not appear to be saving this.

Is it possible to have another field as well as Turn, Location, Note. I tend to either do my orders in a geographical area or by an operation that a group of actions are within. Ideally it would be nice to label a group of notes as all part of an operation.... Hope that makes sense.

Roger

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An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

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RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/18/2015 5:46:08 PM

RogerJNeilson

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I have pinched your idea and applied it to a spreadsheet programme on my Mac - will work better for me that way. I do think the idea is a good one so hopefully others may want to give it a try.

Roger

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An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

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Post #: 112

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/19/2015 4:46:22 AM

ChadS

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Hi Roger,

If you click the "Util" menu item, it allows you to reset to the turn you want. I hadn't considered making it smart enough to know what turn you were on. I suppose I could consider that in the future.

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Post #: 113

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/21/2015 5:27:59 AM

ChadS

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March 30, and Singapore is on its last legs. Manila fell, but Clark Field is still kicking (and pretty hard, at that).

So, what am I not considering, with regards to how to capture these more quickly? It doesn't seem to be a troop strength issue--I've got pretty strong troops and AV values. I'm not very good at rotating in fresh troops, though. I am wondering if that's a factor I need to think a little harder about.

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Post #: 114

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/21/2015 11:55:34 AM

PaxMondo

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Lotta factors, not surprisingly, they mimic real combat:

Combined arms attacks
Focus your strength for attacks
Be sure troops are well rested prior to attack
Sufficient support
preparation for the target
leaders
unit exp

Given your dates for the above, you are not fully utilizing one or more of the items in the list optimally. keep practicing.

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Pax

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Post #: 115

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/21/2015 3:58:19 PM

ChadS

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I think it's the rested units. I typically roll in with inf, arm, art, and hit with bombers as well. I try to attack from multiple sides when I can, though when they retreat, that becomes difficult, particularly in Malaya.

I'm not preparing for the targets, either. The big ones (Singapore), sure, but not the intermediates that are along the way.

I haven't tweaked leaders much. I'll give that a look-see too.

Thanks Pax!

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Post #: 116

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/21/2015 4:39:19 PM

ChadS

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Another question--

what's the proper way to clear out mines in a hostile hex? Is it even possible? I've lost lots of ships to coastal guns in mined hexes. Send in the sweepers--the coastal guns sink 'em. Send in the big guns to suppress the coastal guns--the mines sink 'em.

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RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/21/2015 7:53:11 PM

Puhis

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You can't (effectively) sweep mines if there's coastal guns in the hex, especially big guns. So why even try? Is it really necessary to clear the minefield, and why?

There's places you just shouldn't send ships if enemy have the hex. Singapore, Bataan, Yokohama...

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Post #: 118

RE: Trying Out Japan - 11/22/2015 7:52:48 AM

GetAssista

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When you are attacking mined and fortified island, you should include some minesweepers into your amphibious TF together with some big gunships. Then you send it away, pray, and get ready for some inevitable losses. When you are bombarding, you send big guns, set some distance for the bombardment, and then mines/CDs usually don't hit you. It is perfectly possible to bombard e.g. Pearl Harbour with IJN battleships and not get hit by mines at all, and hardly hit by CD guns.
But it is useless to only sweep the minefield with CDs present, you will always get your MSWs mauled.

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Post #: 119