Pirates in pre-warp games

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Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 3:02:22 AM

tilarium

Posts: 25
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline

Was hoping someone might have some advice to pass on. Here's my situation, I'm playing a game where I'm pre-warp humans with the start options set to starting and pre-warp as well. I do want pirates in my game because they add an interesting dynamic so I have them set to normal levels. The problem is, within the first 5 years of the game they wipe me out unless I pay them off for protection. I don't want to pay them and I don't want to spend the first 5 years building nothing but combat ships to hope I can build up enough to fight them off.

My initial spaceport always manages to push back their first attack but then some years later they return with a resupply ship that decimates whatever I have and can throw at them. I just want the first 20 years of my game to be spent as the humans building up the starting system and making their first steps outside the system. Not only do the pirates ruin the immersion of early game where they don't know if there are others out there but they just ruin the game by destroying everything I make.

So, any help? Is there a way to make them appear later in the game so they aren't right in my face at start? Did I forget to mention that I have the option set to have them start distant from me?

Post #: 1

RE: Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 4:40:53 AM

Aeson

Posts: 784
Joined: 8/30/2013
Status: offline

There is no way to ensure that pirates only appear relatively late in the game, except maybe if you decide to screw around with the editor (you might be able to add pirate factions to the map after starting a no-pirates game and developing to a point where you would feel comfortable facing pirates, but the pirates would only have what you gave them and wouldn't have had any time to develop 'naturally,' and pirates are really in a very poor position to compete with similarly-advanced empires, especially once the empires start to become reasonably developed). You could try reducing the number of pirate factions (though be aware that this generally increases the strength of individual factions, as there is less competition and infighting between pirates for control over colonies and for the various contracts available), increasing the number of pirate factions (generally makes the pirate factions individually weaker but makes it more likely for you to encounter one or more early on), reducing the number of independent colonies (makes the pirate factions weaker since fewer independent colonies means that there are less contracts on offer and also removes a lot of the income pirates get from 'controlling' colonies, as well as taking away prime Hidden Pirate Base and Fortress sites and refueling points, but makes it so that pirates that know where you are are more likely to come knocking since they have fewer other places to go), increasing the number of independent colonies (increases the strength of pirates by giving them access to more money and refueling points, but also gives them plenty of places to go that aren't your homeworld), or dropping the pirate strength slider. You might also try turning off the Shadows storyline events; two of the events might be set up to ensure that pirates do come by fairly early on (though they might alternatively just be triggered by pirates coming by fairly early on).

As far as dealing with pirate attacks goes, I would suggest that your home spaceport should be a large spaceport if using computer designs; if using a custom design, I'd suggest investing fairly heavily in defenses and long-range weapons (e.g. 30 shield generators plus 30 missiles or torpedoes). You may also want to build 1-4 defensive bases at the home world. Be aware that early warships are not particularly valuable; I prefer to wait for at least Warp Bubble Generators (preferably Gerax Hyperdrives), Corvidian Shields, Standard Armor, and construction size 230 (preferably 300) before building any warships. I also typically do not develop any of the home system resources until I have at least Warp Bubble Generators, except if my homeworld has a moon or two with worthwhile resource deposits or is orbiting a gas giant. Without some kind of hyperdrive, you really need to have a fleet or defensive base at each resource cluster that you aren't willing to lose (defensive bases work better because the fleets will leave their stations if they need to go refuel, which takes the fleet out of the picture for a significant amount of time as they crawl across the system to what had been the nearest refueling site when they decided to head off to refuel and then crawl back to wherever they're supposed to be once they finish fueling up whereas freighters will usually ship fuel to a defensive base if it runs out of fuel, though it may take some time, and energy collectors can allow a defensive base to be partially effective even when out of fuel but will not help on a ship attempting to maneuver); I personally would suggest that only the fuel mines are worth protecting with a fleet, and even then it's questionable whether it's worthwhile before hyperdrives if the fuel source isn't the gas giant your homeworld might be orbiting due to the amount of time taken to cross the system without the aid of a hyperdrive (meaning that it takes a long time for damaged ships to go to the home spaceport for repairs and then return to their station and for losses to be replaced, and the ships are also going to be quite a pain to upgrade in a timely fashion, to the point that if I have such vessels and develop a hyperdrive, it might actually be more worthwhile for me to simply decommission existing ships and replace them with new construction than wait for them to crawl home and be upgraded). Developing and protecting a home system's resources before developing and fielding hyperdrive-equipped ships can be quite challenging if pirates decide to give you trouble.

You may also want to make a test game where you use the editor to spawn in a pirate resupply ship and some vessels of your own that use early-game components to practice driving off, capturing or killing pirate resupply ships and to experiment with various designs, tactics, and fleet compositions to see what you should be fielding in real games.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 10/14/2015 5:44:33 AM >

(in reply to tilarium)

Post #: 2

RE: Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 5:10:25 AM

RemoteLeg

Posts: 153
Joined: 4/21/2015
From: Canada
Status: offline

I feel your pain. Like you, I don't like the way the pirates run roughshod over me in the early game.

I always configure my galaxy to have the pirates start far away and I prefer a ring galaxy so I can be confident they are probably traveling around the edge rather than heading straight through the sparse middle toward me. I always start on the outer edge of the galaxy.
I always start in the pre-warp era too. Not that it makes any difference to the pirates (they always get warp drive), but I like a slower start and that thrill when I build my first ship with warp drive.

Add a good sprinkling of other races that will hopefully give the pirates somebody else to attack.

Build two defensive bases to protect your space port and give them long range weapons. Don't build warships until you get warp drive.

And finally (you're not going to like this) pay off the pirates when they appear. They are far too powerful at the beginning unless you set their strength to "weak". Keep paying them off until you are confident of victory. For me, this is usually ten years after my advisers start pestering me to cancel the protection agreement. Pay them off and have your revenge later.

_____________________________

See my Distant Worlds tutorial videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK2bfr2o2ZkW3OcP3kd-ypVVfLtaT9Y81

(in reply to Aeson)

Post #: 3

RE: Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 5:20:02 AM

jacozilla

Posts: 122
Joined: 10/10/2015
Status: offline

My advice as a fellow new player is to think about those pirate setting levels as curry descriptions in some parts of India.

As a tourist, you'll be told they have very mild, mild, normal, hot, and extra spicy.

In reality, these are all lies to the avg american pallate. It's simply all Flame Hot #1 to 5.

After few weeks of non-stop game addiction, i can do normal mode and normal pirates settings for all three sliders (how many, how strong, etc) and defend myself fine, but they are a constant lingering annoyance.

In the beginning, even normal game, few pirates, weak settings were pretty darn tough. My understanding is that pirates on pre warp especially is harder scenario than normal start.

I would just look at those sliders as all flame hot settings and not be bothered about starting on very weak, even if that label doesnt suit what your ego says should be playing on. Start at the lowest and work up.

(in reply to Aeson)

Post #: 4

RE: Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 6:45:24 AM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

As the above posts says, the pirates is a significant presence in the early game, unless disabled.

I would not usually make any deal with the pirates apart from the very first attack before my spaceport is complete and shielded. And I would usually play with automated designs, usually normal AI designs. And I like slow research. That is a setup for a war with pirates, and some protection deals are probably a good idea.

My experience in playing pre-warp is that there is little point in doing much until proper Gerax Hyperdrives are available. All that I can achieve is mining some fuel and stuff that I will spend (and more) trying to defend the few mines I got. Since doing nothing is rather boring, I try to deploy mines in my systems once I got the warp bubble drive.

If there are significant amount of pirates around, I will experience that my mines are busted almost as fast as I can build them. There is usually some mines left alone though, so I make sure to quickly rebuild those destroyed so that the pirates will destroy them again, leaving my other mines alone. Pirates will swarm any minor colony system so putting mines there is rather pointless.

I will in the early days manage to properly defend (in space) just one single new colony, and maybe not even that.

I will not manage to defend more than very few mines (if even that) if they are actively hunted by pirates. Thus rebuilding those that are destroyed, and trying to sneak some away in quiet systems with no colonies. I usually have a pirate battles in my capital system where they destroy some of my mines, and my "home fleet" fight them with modest success or less. They will, however, not manage (or even try) to destroy my large capital spaceport while some of my warships are around (and if they do, I have troops on the ground and will intend to rebuild it).

So at the start of the game, I am not managing to protect my areas from the pirates, I do manage to do some mining and have some fun, though.

The change comes when I am rich enough to field a good size fleet of my AI designed destroyers and frigates. What is a good size? 40 ships?, it would depend on the actual designs. 40-ish ships can not defend 3 colony systems and a few key fuel mines, but they can possibly kill a large pirate base. And my economy should be good enough to build 40 new ships rather soon if they are lost.

If my nearest clan is very annoying and lose their large spaceport, they are no longer my nearest clan, and they probably stop being annoying to me. I start taking notes of the clans of annoying pirates, and where in my empire they attack. If they only attack at the northern colony, they are probably based to my north... I hunt down the bases of the annoying pirates.

How to find the pirate bases? Long range scanners, steal their maps with spies, or realize that a pirate base is always based on a fuel source, and send ships to visit every single system with a fuel source in the area in question. If you manage to spot a pirate as they arrive or leave, you will get they trajectory of travel, and the pirate base is probably at the other end.

Once I have cleared 2-3 sector around "my area" of pirates, the pirate war is over. Any remaining pirates are not hunters, they are prey.

Also, I would not consider pre-warp the easy way to start this game. It gives the pirates time to build their wealth, and grab to an uncontested hold of the galaxy.

< Message edited by Bingeling -- 10/14/2015 7:45:37 AM >

(in reply to jacozilla)

Post #: 5

RE: Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 10:55:31 AM

fencenswitchen

Posts: 4
Joined: 8/28/2014
Status: offline

I just started a few pre-warp games in the last weeks with Pirates Setting on Weak. I find them annoying very fast on higher settings.

With the last two games I started (one Dhajut, one Human) went a little differently than the ones before. In both games, the pirates appeared early just about as my first spaceport was ready, as always. I payed them off as always. But this time, a few months later those b-tards attacked me, firstly trying to raid the colony. The payment stopped then obviously, and I quickly added some blasters (I always start my first SSP without weapons to be quicker with my first EX-ships).

Did anyone saw that pirate behaviour too? It was new to me, but I think it is quite fitting ^^

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 6

RE: Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 3:48:40 PM

RemoteLeg

Posts: 153
Joined: 4/21/2015
From: Canada
Status: offline

That's news to me. I've found that the pirates never attack me so long as I pay them off and don't annoy them by sending spies.

Are you sure it's the same group of pirates? Sometimes I get attacked by a pirate faction when I'm paying off a different one.

_____________________________

See my Distant Worlds tutorial videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK2bfr2o2ZkW3OcP3kd-ypVVfLtaT9Y81

(in reply to fencenswitchen)

Post #: 7

RE: Pirates in pre-warp games - 10/14/2015 4:45:36 PM

Aeson

Posts: 784
Joined: 8/30/2013
Status: offline

It can definitely happen, though it's not that frequent; I've mostly (maybe only) seen it with Raider-type pirates. More frequently, they're at least nice enough to tell you they've cancelled the protection agreement first. I suspect that it's more likely to happen if the pirates you have the arrangement with hate you.

Another possibility is that the player 'accidentally' attacked a Hidden Pirate Base or Hidden Pirate Fortress (or ships or stations, but it's more difficult to accidentally attack ships and stations) owned by a pirate faction with which they have a protection agreement; this usually, though not always, results in the arrangement being voided, and it isn't always announced that the arrangement has been voided.

(in reply to RemoteLeg)

Post #: 8