Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Wargmr


If the designers thought it was a huge game imbalance they have had plenty of time to fix it.

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ORIGINAL: Yaab
41st always first off CONUSA!

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ORIGINAL: fcharton

Before we begin

My opponent tells me I should receive the first turn this week-end. As I am limited to existing task forces and China, and not everything in China needs to be done at once, the war might begin early next week. Turn exchange rate will be slow at start, since Japanese early turns are big and I still lack time, but the war will be on.

So, before it all begins again, a few words on my plans as the good guys.

Japan begins the game with the initiative, a variety of strategic options, and a fairly large repertoire of openings, which all call for different reactions. As such, it makes little sense to define a first phase allied strategy in advance, but I think I can formulate a few general principles I am planning to follow in the early game.

First, the capture of China must be prevented. Many AAR have shown this is relatively easy to achieve, even with stacking limits, and I don’t think the Asian road module, which we will be using, makes a large difference here. It will force both sides to organize better, but it doesn’t change the main transportation axes, or tip the balance either way. I have no doubt my opponent knows this, and will play his best game there.

The defense of China is relatively simple. The bulk of the Chinese army should retreat into defensive terrain, and try to repair disablements. Support units are all the more important as supply is low, and the Chinese have a lot of them. A few small units will be left behind to try to disrupt Japanese lines of communication, but I want to avoid battle as much as I can.

Where should they retreat to? There is no point running all the way to the hills around Chungking. It just makes the resistance line thinner. I think the south can and should be defended forward. In the North , it all boils down to deciding whether to defend Sian, and try to establish a line from Taiyuan and Yenan to Tsiaotso, or just leave roadblocks there, and concentrate on a Nanning, Ankang, Lanchow line. So far, no one seems to have had much luck fighting east and north of Sian. Yet, there is a lot of defensible areas there, few good roads, and pretty decent units beginning there. It is worth a try.

So, the basic strategy in China would summarize as “run to the closest hill, and stack there with an HQ”. Meanwhile, I need to keep track of Japanese movements, and will try to set up a decent recon network, using my bombers to this effect (at the beginning of the war, my fighters will mostly train, there is very little interest in trying to confront him, except with the AVG)

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@mind_messing: thanks for the suggestions. I have to say I am wary of attacking towards the coast, ie away from Chungking and my MLR. Somehow, it puts Japan in a central position, which invites defeat in detail. I agree with you that not attacking give Japan the time to reorganize, but it also allows KMT units to improve their positions, and perhaps to repair some of their disabled devices.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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@mind_messing: thanks for the suggestions. I have to say I am wary of attacking towards the coast, ie away from Chungking and my MLR. Somehow, it puts Japan in a central position, which invites defeat in detail. I agree with you that not attacking give Japan the time to reorganize, but it also allows KMT units to improve their positions, and perhaps to repair some of their disabled devices.

KMT units respawn for free. Japanese ones don't. You need to take full advantage of this rule if you plan to hold China. A strictly defensive strategy is doomed to fail, us Japanese players have gotten very good as of recent in cracking China.

The "defeat in detail" is the goal. You want the Japanese player to waste time, energy and units engaging your offensive spearheads in Southern/South-West China.

Take a 1k AV stack and send it straight for Amoy. You might get lucky and take Amoy. If you don't, withdraw it, send it to Wenchow, see if you can take anything on the cheap there. Nothing going on at Amoy? Cross the Yangstee and see if you can't cause havoc on the plains. Forget about supply lines and such - these troops are expendable and respawn. 1k Chinese AV is enough that the IJA player needs to commit at least several regiments if not a division, and that's what you're wanting.

Don't stop there. Invade Northern Vietnam. The Japanese garrison is pitiful, and the activated reinforcements are only a marginal improvement. Think on how Sqz will feel when he's trying to capture Singapore while the Chinese are taking Hanoi.

Rather than conventional warfare, use your offensive units as a big, marauding group of bandits. Go to those unimportant hexes that have 20 AV garrison, go to the dot hexes with no garrison, go to road and railway junctions. When your units are bombed or battered to the point that they can't take combat, fragment them and scatter them around to mess with hexside control.

Sure, with good play from the Japanese player these moves won't amount to much. It's no loss to you, the troops respawn. He can bomb your troops to dust - that's even better, he's not bombing you to get at your supply or industry.

The "hivemind" of the forum has decreed that the Allies "must" send everything to the hills to fight. It just ain't so. If anything, an aggressive Chinese strategy from the Allies can and will take the Japanese player off-guard. They've gotten used to Chinese hiding in the hills and forest.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The British victory cheer is "Huzzah!", which pretty much sounds like the "Banzai!" sound clip the game plays.

Not sure what the American cheer would have been before "U-S-A, U-S-A". But feel free to sing "Les Marseillaise" any time.

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister
..Send the British recon to China and all the AA you can find.

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ORIGINAL: Yaab

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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@mind_messing: thanks for the suggestions. I have to say I am wary of attacking towards the coast, ie away from Chungking and my MLR. Somehow, it puts Japan in a central position, which invites defeat in detail. I agree with you that not attacking give Japan the time to reorganize, but it also allows KMT units to improve their positions, and perhaps to repair some of their disabled devices.

KMT units respawn for free. Japanese ones don't. You need to take full advantage of this rule if you plan to hold China. A strictly defensive strategy is doomed to fail, us Japanese players have gotten very good as of recent in cracking China.

The "defeat in detail" is the goal. You want the Japanese player to waste time, energy and units engaging your offensive spearheads in Southern/South-West China.

Take a 1k AV stack and send it straight for Amoy. You might get lucky and take Amoy. If you don't, withdraw it, send it to Wenchow, see if you can take anything on the cheap there. Nothing going on at Amoy? Cross the Yangstee and see if you can't cause havoc on the plains. Forget about supply lines and such - these troops are expendable and respawn. 1k Chinese AV is enough that the IJA player needs to commit at least several regiments if not a division, and that's what you're wanting.

Don't stop there. Invade Northern Vietnam. The Japanese garrison is pitiful, and the activated reinforcements are only a marginal improvement. Think on how Sqz will feel when he's trying to capture Singapore while the Chinese are taking Hanoi.

Rather than conventional warfare, use your offensive units as a big, marauding group of bandits. Go to those unimportant hexes that have 20 AV garrison, go to the dot hexes with no garrison, go to road and railway junctions. When your units are bombed or battered to the point that they can't take combat, fragment them and scatter them around to mess with hexside control.

Sure, with good play from the Japanese player these moves won't amount to much. It's no loss to you, the troops respawn. He can bomb your troops to dust - that's even better, he's not bombing you to get at your supply or industry.

The "hivemind" of the forum has decreed that the Allies "must" send everything to the hills to fight. It just ain't so. If anything, an aggressive Chinese strategy from the Allies can and will take the Japanese player off-guard. They've gotten used to Chinese hiding in the hills and forest.

Yes, the Chinese respawn, albeit without mortars and field artillery. At start, the Chinese army is at its max level of mortar/field artillery saturation in the entire war. If your big 1K stack loses a battle and is forced to withdraw, it loses some guns. Later, another defeat, new guns lost to the point in which only infantry squads remain.

I would rampage in China, but only with those corps which either have no arty in their TOE (the light corps) or the standard corps with the smallest complement of mortar/field guns.

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't think that China has to be a lost cause.

I like Alfred's posts on its defensive strategy.

I like Mr. Kane's bomber/supply gambit very much. Yes the opportunity cost is high, but having a China around in 44 and 45 really makes for an interesting game.

I liked Obvert vs Greyjoy...where Greyjoy initially gave Obvert some breathing room. I wish Obvert would have tried sending in some resupply to Wenchow from Seattle.

Wargamer recently was aggressive with China early in his game against NJP. Didn't work out so well, as China is fully conquered in that game.

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't think that China has to be a lost cause.

I like Alfred's posts on its defensive strategy.

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't think that China has to be a lost cause.

I like Alfred's posts on its defensive strategy.

I like Mr. Kane's bomber/supply gambit very much. Yes the opportunity cost is high, but having a China around in 44 and 45 really makes for an interesting game.

I liked Obvert vs Greyjoy...where Greyjoy initially gave Obvert some breathing room. I wish Obvert would have tried sending in some resupply to Wenchow from Seattle.

Wargamer recently was aggressive with China early in his game against NJP. Didn't work out so well, as China is fully conquered in that game.

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ORIGINAL: fcharton

Hi Jocke,

I agree with you, except on the timetable. In my game against Spence, I put siege on Chungking in May 42, but it only fell in August and the KMT was defeated and China conquered by September or October. It was a scenario 2, with no PP for borders (so the Kwantung army was fighting in China), no stacking limits, and my opponent made a series of mistakes, around Sian and then near Ichang, which allowed me to break through much earlier than I should. The fall of China allowed me to reinforce Burma (which I still held when the game ended in June 1943), but it also allowed the Allies to counter attack in New Guinea, and I was in a very bad situation there in mid-43.

Now, in this game, we have PP for borders, scenario 1, stacking limits and the China roads mod, which should complicate supply flow as the Japanese advance. Under such conditions, I believe I can hold China until late 42 at least (little will be left by then, but the KMT will still be in the war). The case, in my opinion, boils down to two questions: how late into 1943 can I hold China, and how early in 1943 can I conquer northern Burma?

To hold long enough in China, I want to conserve supplies by avoiding costly offensives, rebuild as many units as I can, and try to defend far enough to have plenty of fallback positions. Regrouping on one thin line next to Chungking is a recipe for disaster. As for reopening Burma in early 43, it mostly depends on Joseph and how much he wants to invest in Burma and Eastern India. If he commits a lot of forces to those theaters, I might not make it, but this should open some opportunities in the Pacific or East Indies.

Somehow, the defense of China depends a lot on whether the Japanese will commit to Burma/India, or to South Pacific and Australia. To save China, I need to lure him eastwards and attack from the west (ie India). If he focuses on Burma and India, it is the other way around.

Now, maybe the interesting question is : how can the Allies prepare for both situations? And the name Cape Town springs to mind.

Francois

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ORIGINAL: fcharton

Hi Jocke,

I agree with you, except on the timetable. In my game against Spence, I put siege on Chungking in May 42, but it only fell in August and the KMT was defeated and China conquered by September or October. It was a scenario 2, with no PP for borders (so the Kwantung army was fighting in China), no stacking limits, and my opponent made a series of mistakes, around Sian and then near Ichang, which allowed me to break through much earlier than I should. The fall of China allowed me to reinforce Burma (which I still held when the game ended in June 1943), but it also allowed the Allies to counter attack in New Guinea, and I was in a very bad situation there in mid-43.

Now, in this game, we have PP for borders, scenario 1, stacking limits and the China roads mod, which should complicate supply flow as the Japanese advance. Under such conditions, I believe I can hold China until late 42 at least (little will be left by then, but the KMT will still be in the war). The case, in my opinion, boils down to two questions: how late into 1943 can I hold China, and how early in 1943 can I conquer northern Burma?

To hold long enough in China, I want to conserve supplies by avoiding costly offensives, rebuild as many units as I can, and try to defend far enough to have plenty of fallback positions. Regrouping on one thin line next to Chungking is a recipe for disaster. As for reopening Burma in early 43, it mostly depends on Joseph and how much he wants to invest in Burma and Eastern India. If he commits a lot of forces to those theaters, I might not make it, but this should open some opportunities in the Pacific or East Indies.

Somehow, the defense of China depends a lot on whether the Japanese will commit to Burma/India, or to South Pacific and Australia. To save China, I need to lure him eastwards and attack from the west (ie India). If he focuses on Burma and India, it is the other way around.

Now, maybe the interesting question is : how can the Allies prepare for both situations? And the name Cape Town springs to mind.

Francois

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ORIGINAL: Kofiman

The best recent performance in China has been witpqs in his Rumble in the Southwest AAR. China never ended up falling, and it's Sept 44. Chungking was taken in summer 43. He was quite agressive and defended forward.

I may not be experienced, but I would be much more interested in emulating success, rather than failure. Witpqs' performance was far from perfect, but the results are very hard to argue with. If you do not give your opponent challenges, you cannot expect your opponent to make many mistakes.

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

So you need to have fallback positions. But the problem with that is that once the first position is routed they overstack the next hex and all supply is pretty much burnt up the same turn. SL is not without problems.