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Soviet biplanes - 11/2/2015 8:38:02 AM   
garydj

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 4/6/2013
Status: offline
Hi

I've noticed that the Soviets keep producing the U-2VS well into 1942. The information for the biplane seems to indicate that the Soviets keep producing U-2VS until the end of the war.

What use are they in the game? They do little on a bombing mission and they take up space on bases. Presumably, they also cost resources to produce. Should the Soviet player leave them in reserve to keep space on bases for useful aircraft? In one game I am playing, it is November 1942 and I have thousands of U-2VS, not to mention hundreds of other biplanes (I-15s, I-153s, etc). Should I destroy the factory producing the U-2VS and other biplanes to save resources?

Grateful for any advice.

Cheers

Gary
Post #: 1
RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/2/2015 8:50:06 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		I think you'll get pretty radically different views.

Some players argue that you leave the factories that produce them somewhere the Germans will capture so as to get rid of them completely.

I get a lot of use out of them, but you need to use them in a suitable role. I put them on a quiet sector (where the airbase capacity is of no importance) and use them for attritional attacks in a night bomber role. The Germans don't have many night fighters so if you spread out a bit you'll mostly face no opposition.

If you run an attack slowly, you'll also notice they do a lot of disruption (in addition to outright casualties). Disruption is good - that element can't fight that turn at all, and will gain fatigue when it recovers. Fits the standard Soviet tactic of them cutting the engines, flying silently over a rear area camp, drop some bombs, lob out some grenades (hopefully) restart the engine and fly away. All done in the dark, leaves massive chaos behind, few losses but no one gets any sleep.

Use them on the Finns, as the Axis power with the biggest manpower constraint. Every now and then you'll get a really big hit with decent losses but the regular loss of 200 or so men a week actually hurts the Finns over the game.

You'll not win the game with them, but I think its well worth building around 15-20 squadrons (apart from the admin cost to create the basic formation, they are very cheap to produce).

edit - the other biplanes, make sure they are on auto upgrade. Get rid of one way or the other, manually upgrade (they should have decent morale etc if they have been sat in your reserve for some time), wait for the auto upgrade or scrap them.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 11/2/2015 9:51:30 AM >

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RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/2/2015 12:13:35 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		A lot of players don't like these because you can't see what they do so easily. Seeing is believing, right?

Actually, the Russians continued building them well after the war and the Germans tried to copy them, if on a smaller scale because they were very good at what they did and the game replicates this more or less.

Use them from NBAD (night bomber) bases, most effective if cheesy is on HQ targets (some players will house rule against this, with some justification), but will degrade any target for follow up land attack. They cost little, another nail in the Axis coffin if used right in my view.

< Message edited by Mehring -- 11/2/2015 1:14:19 PM >

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RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/28/2015 1:28:21 AM   
garydj

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 4/6/2013
Status: offline 		Hi

More on Soviet biplanes. I used the manual reallocation system and precious APs to replace a lot of biplanes (eg I-15s and I-153s) with useful planes (eg Yaks, Las, etc). Two turns later, I notice the damn AI has replaced Yak-7s with I-153s. How can I stop this? Is there anyway to scrap the lot of I-153s and other useless aircraft?

Gary

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Post #: 4
RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/28/2015 2:17:10 AM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		Personally I think they are useless the more I have played the game. You need to minimize truck use in the soviet airforce to keep the trucks and support manpower in the Soviet Army units.

Thus you could spend AP and trucks/airbases to use the biplanes to bomb with but long term its just another drag on Soviet trucks.

In my most recent game start my plan is to streamline the Soviet airforce as quickly as possible to save burning up trucks in the early game for no real effect on the German army.

Think you would be better off concentrating on units that can hit guards status and air units that will be useful in gaining and maintaining air superiority then go to ground attack as you get more an more IL-2.

My new theory on Soviet air is 2 fighter Airbases per front, 1 tactical strike air base and probably 1 VVS base mostly loaded with tactical strike aircraft/transports/recon. Then once the luftwaffe is mostly taken care of you can probably drop down to just 4-6 fighter regiments in 1 fighter airbase per front.

(in reply to garydj)
Post #: 5
RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/28/2015 7:15:03 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garydj63

Hi

More on Soviet biplanes. I used the manual reallocation system and precious APs to replace a lot of biplanes (eg I-15s and I-153s) with useful planes (eg Yaks, Las, etc). Two turns later, I notice the damn AI has replaced Yak-7s with I-153s. How can I stop this? Is there anyway to scrap the lot of I-153s and other useless aircraft?

Gary


this happens if the auto upgrade is left on (or reset) and your new air type has a very limited pool. Keep them on 'manual' for upgrade and you should be ok.

very very slowly, the AI routines will actually scrap the junk in your pools (ie not assigned to units), but that will take time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Personally I think they are useless the more I have played the game. You need to minimize truck use in the soviet airforce to keep the trucks and support manpower in the Soviet Army units.

...



point is there are lots of constraints and lots of ways to balance them out with the Soviets (there really is rarely a single right answer). One advantage of the U2s is that there are pretty much free to use with exceptionally low supply and other resource demands.


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RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/28/2015 7:19:29 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garydj63
More on Soviet biplanes. I used the manual reallocation system and precious APs to replace a lot of biplanes (eg I-15s and I-153s) with useful planes (eg Yaks, Las, etc). Two turns later, I notice the damn AI has replaced Yak-7s with I-153s. How can I stop this? Is there anyway to scrap the lot of I-153s and other useless aircraft?


Did you leave them on manual upgrade or enabled automatic upgrade again?

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Post #: 7
RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/28/2015 9:34:09 AM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Given they are night bombers and were historically quite busy, couldn't the 1 attack a week restriction be lifted, or night bombers be included in combat support?

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RE: Soviet biplanes - 11/28/2015 9:34:12 AM   
garydj

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 4/6/2013
Status: offline 		I left them on automatic upgrade. I didn't think this would lead to my best aircraft being replaced by my worst.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 9
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