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questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 1:15:08 AM

stretch

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
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Hi all, a couple more questions.

1.) I see from my game that when a unit upgrades its infantry squads, say for example from AIF Inf Section to AIF Inf Section 42, those upgraded squads are not subtracted from the pool. I begin a turn with 57 in the pool, a unit with 36 of the old type upgrades, and the next turn I have 58 in the pool with 36 used. So, apparently the number of newer squads in the pool: A) will only shrink due to non-upgrade replacements, and B) represents the maximum sized unit that can upgrade in a turn. Am I correct? If so one would try to upgrade only full strength units so the total in the pool continues to rise, allowing ever larger units to be upgraded.

2.) Is it true the old squads are returned to the pool in an upgraded state after some length of time passes? I found varying thoughts on this in different threads.

3.) Having let the AI take Mandalay, I'm preparing defense of Imphal/Kohima. Is there a better way to see enemy troops coming towards me other than assigning a recon mission to each and every hex I wish to check out? Is there any fly-over effect of hexes between the air units home base and the hex targeted for recon?

Thanks as always.

Post #: 1

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 2:02:16 AM

towtow59_MatrixForum

Posts: 19
Joined: 5/17/2014
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I hope this helps:

1: You are correct.

2: I think that may be correct, as I seem to recall michaelm mentioning it some time ago, but cannot find the relevant post.

3: I'm pretty sure that assigning air units to recon but not assigning a target should work.

(in reply to stretch)

Post #: 2

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 11:05:02 AM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

I believe you got correct answers to all questions.

As for number three leaving the targeting to commander discretion will also allow the recon planes to find enemy unit in open terrain hexes, meaning not in bases.

This is a good way to keep an eye out for an enemy flanking maneuver.

Sure beats randomly targeting empty open terrain hexes in order to eliminate them one at a time as possible hexes holding an enemy unit.

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Hans

(in reply to towtow59_MatrixForum)

Post #: 3

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 11:10:26 AM

bush

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline

Wow, I didn't know how much I didn't know about this game after so may years of playing - and reading this forum.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 4

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 11:12:31 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

3.) Is there a better way to see enemy troops coming towards me other than assigning a recon mission to each and every hex I wish to check out? Is there any fly-over effect of hexes between the air units home base and the hex targeted for recon?

Thanks as always.

A couple of thoughts. Flying any air mission create a pseudo recon for 4 hexes around. DL will be low, but you should see at least a unit icon. Then, recon will generally track a unit as it moves so that you don't have to keep changing hex.

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Pax

(in reply to stretch)

Post #: 5

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 11:37:42 AM

Ambassador

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
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Regarding your third question, you can also use the supply shortcut to see where enemy troops are : hexes where you get no numbers when you should indicate the presence of enemy troops, and you may target it with your recons.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 6

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 12:41:44 PM

Rafid

Posts: 130
Joined: 1/24/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Regarding your third question, you can also use the supply shortcut to see where enemy troops are : hexes where you get no numbers when you should indicate the presence of enemy troops, and you may target it with your recons.

I consider this an exploit and would not do it. The possibility to exploit the supply path function is also the reason it is tuned down in PBEM.

(in reply to Ambassador)

Post #: 7

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 1:08:24 PM

HansBolter

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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Regarding your third question, you can also use the supply shortcut to see where enemy troops are : hexes where you get no numbers when you should indicate the presence of enemy troops, and you may target it with your recons.

I consider this an exploit and would not do it. The possibility to exploit the supply path function is also the reason it is tuned down in PBEM.

I can't agree with your position. Surely the units at the destination for the supply and the units at the supply source would be aware of what groups of supply transports are not getting through and which paths they took.
Surely this would be a heads up to look for the enemy along the obstructed route.

Not a technique I have ever thought to use, but I see it simply as an astute observation of how to use the tools given to us and applaud the poster for thinking of it.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 11/13/2015 2:08:53 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 1:10:56 PM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

+1 Hans,

I do randomly target some critical hexes.

Recon...

Commander discretion can send your recon group over heavy cap or flak bases.
Always use very high altitude for the mission. I�ve seen Japanese recon planes
Spot 300 man units in heavy jungle and get very good results when set to 30,000 feet .

Keep in mind that some bomber groups can also fly recon missions.
This can spare your valuable recon planes and keep the plane fatigue down as well as rest your recon pilots.
I use bomber groups to search for ground units outside of bases.
They are armed and can take a lot more punishment if they should happen to fly over a heavy AA location.
Fly them at lower altitudes to determine if there is heavy AA in the hex. Only one or two planes will fly.
They will not give you good recon results but they will spot the units from high altitude.
Then if you need better intel results you can come back again with a dedicated recon group.

On a Recon mission only one or two planes fly the mission. The larger the recon group the more chance that two planes will fly.
The game will, as a general rule, pick the most experienced pilots to fly the mission instead of the pilots with the best recon skills.
Recon pilot skill is what you want. You can hand pick your pilots by using group reserve.
Send all of the pilots to group reserve except for about four of your best recon skilled ones.
That way the game will pick your best recon skilled pilots for the mission.
This may not always work as I�ve seen the game pull pilots out of group reserve and assign them to the mission.
I�ve also seen the game put active pilots into group reserve.

If you watch the mission numbers on your pilot screen you can see which pilots fly the mission.
If you watch the plane fatigue numbers you can see which planes they are using for the mission.
Many times the pilots will hot seat the same plane for the morning and afternoon missions.

I would not use the supply shortcut but hand picking pilots is not an exploit.

Just my two cents.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 9

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 2:14:37 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Regarding your third question, you can also use the supply shortcut to see where enemy troops are : hexes where you get no numbers when you should indicate the presence of enemy troops, and you may target it with your recons.

I consider this an exploit and would not do it. The possibility to exploit the supply path function is also the reason it is tuned down in PBEM.

Agreed.

I don't use it in AI games. For PBEM, I would certainly discuss before using it.

There was a lot of discussion on exactly this when this feature was added. Some very vehement opposition was overcome only by pointing out that an HR can address their concerns.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Rafid)

Post #: 10

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 2:26:06 PM

Rafid

Posts: 130
Joined: 1/24/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Regarding your third question, you can also use the supply shortcut to see where enemy troops are : hexes where you get no numbers when you should indicate the presence of enemy troops, and you may target it with your recons.

I consider this an exploit and would not do it. The possibility to exploit the supply path function is also the reason it is tuned down in PBEM.

I can't agree with your position. Surely the units at the destination for the supply and the units at the supply source would be aware of what groups of supply transports are not getting through and which paths they took.
Surely this would be a heads up to look for the enemy along the obstructed route.

Not a technique I have ever thought to use, but I see it simply as an astute observation of how to use the tools given to us and applaud the poster for thinking of it.

I wouldn't mind if you get a heads up when the supply path to a unit is worse than the optimal possible due to an unseen enemy unit. This is the situation you are describing.

But as it is you can select a base close to the front, press 5 and see ~10 Hexes into the enemy territory. You don�t need units at the destination for the supply or as a matter of fact any actual supply flow. The way it works is if every base in every turn sends out one package of supply to all possible locations (not actual locations with units in them) and sees which ones go missing. It is like a long range supply radar perfectly unaffected by FOW and not costing anything.

In my book that is a bit too much and unrealistic at that. The function was implemented to check supply lines to your own units and bases not to scan beyond them. It also seems to me, that this exploit is the reason it works differently in PBEM and against the AI.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 11

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 2:49:55 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

Hi all, a couple more questions.

2.) Is it true the old squads are returned to the pool in an upgraded state after some length of time passes? I found varying thoughts on this in different threads.

From the patch notes, January 2012, Sixth Official:

40. After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to stretch)

Post #: 12

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 11/13/2015 3:07:38 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

Hi all, a couple more questions.

1.) I see from my game that when a unit upgrades its infantry squads, say for example from AIF Inf Section to AIF Inf Section 42, those upgraded squads are not subtracted from the pool. I begin a turn with 57 in the pool, a unit with 36 of the old type upgrades, and the next turn I have 58 in the pool with 36 used. So, apparently the number of newer squads in the pool: A) will only shrink due to non-upgrade replacements, and B) represents the maximum sized unit that can upgrade in a turn. Am I correct? If so one would try to upgrade only full strength units so the total in the pool continues to rise, allowing ever larger units to be upgraded.

2.) Is it true the old squads are returned to the pool in an upgraded state after some length of time passes? I found varying thoughts on this in different threads.

3.) Having let the AI take Mandalay, I'm preparing defense of Imphal/Kohima. Is there a better way to see enemy troops coming towards me other than assigning a recon mission to each and every hex I wish to check out? Is there any fly-over effect of hexes between the air units home base and the hex targeted for recon?

Thanks as always.

As for rebuilding squads I reserve my independent infantry battalions for this purpose. Avoid recombining separate units into regiments and brigades for this reason. Holding two or three smaller battalions at your home base will greatly enhance upgrading units. When your new upgraded unit flow starts, fill one of these units first and then immediately disband it for 180 days. This will then double your pool. Allow two more to upgrade the next day and then promptly disband them. This will then give you more than a brigade's worth of upgraded replacements in your pool in three days and you can then start breaking down divisions into brigade or regimental units and begin upgrading them. Be careful about your other device pools. Nothing hurts more than to upgrade three brigades only to find that one has 25 pounder guns while the other two have 18 pounders and you can't recombine. There is a real fine art to upgrading units. Sort of a pain but sort of fun.

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(in reply to stretch)

Post #: 13

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/27/2018 4:02:05 PM

palioboy2

Posts: 190
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

Hi all, a couple more questions.

2.) Is it true the old squads are returned to the pool in an upgraded state after some length of time passes? I found varying thoughts on this in different threads.

From the patch notes, January 2012, Sixth Official:

40. After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials.

Can somebody confirm the squads automatically upgrading after 6 months? That would be sooooo helpful.

Also can I get a list of what is required to upgrade infantry squads? my 8th Marines refuse to upgrade even though they are sitting in the same base as my 2nd Marines that upgrade about a week ago.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 14

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/27/2018 4:22:01 PM

palioboy2

Posts: 190
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
Status: offline

Anybody have a version of this link that still works?

http://hc-strategy.com/ae/wiki/index.php?title=Replacements_%26_Upgrades

it is an AE wiki link I guess, I didn't even know such a think existed

(in reply to palioboy2)

Post #: 15

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/27/2018 4:53:52 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Yes, only replacing losses or filling out units that have expanded will cost you squads from your pool.

The ideal way to upgrade is to keep at least three battalions in your home city. Once you reach the 30 to 35 new units needed to upgrade a battalion, then upgrade one battalion and then immediately disband the unit with it to return in 180 days. You will now have 60 to 70 new units and can then upgrade the two remaining battalions. Disbanding them will give you enough new squads in your pool to upgrade regimental and brigade sized units. Break down your divisions and they will start to upgrade one brigade at a time. If you need to upgrade faster then break down a non-divisional brigade or two until you have enough squads in the pools to start upgrading divisional size units. For this reasons I do not combine all of the battalions that I have into larger units (many can do so). I keep a few on hand to manage upgrades.

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Post #: 16

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/27/2018 5:18:56 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

Hi all, a couple more questions.

2.) Is it true the old squads are returned to the pool in an upgraded state after some length of time passes? I found varying thoughts on this in different threads.

From the patch notes, January 2012, Sixth Official:

40. After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials.

Can somebody confirm the squads automatically upgrading after 6 months? That would be sooooo helpful.

Also can I get a list of what is required to upgrade infantry squads? my 8th Marines refuse to upgrade even though they are sitting in the same base as my 2nd Marines that upgrade about a week ago.

I have had the same problem with that Marine Regiment. I replaced the commander with a guy who had excellent admin skills - no help.
I drew over 100K supply to San Diego - no help.
I sent the 8th Marines to San Francisco where there was over a million supply and in range of West Coast Command HQ - no help.
It took until August 1942 to fill out the Marine squads and some of the support squads had still not arrived. There were lots of Marine squads in the pools and other Marine units arrived later, filled out and shipped out within a few weeks.

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(in reply to palioboy2)

Post #: 17

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/27/2018 6:03:18 PM

palioboy2

Posts: 190
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
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I should have sufficient squads in my pool (140ish, I use more or less the same system as you describe). Like I said I upgraded another regiment a week ago. Does a unit have to be fully together in order to upgrade squads? That is the only difference I see. I have one fraction lagging behind but it only contains support squads and a few mortars.

This unit has already been pushed pretty far forward, but it is still at a base with 30K+ supplies and an HQ.

Are there any other requirements I need to fulfill?

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 18

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/27/2018 11:13:36 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2
Does a unit have to be fully together in order to upgrade squads?

Yes it does. Assuming we are talking about fractions. Child units can be upgraded separately, no need to recombine into parent.

(in reply to palioboy2)

Post #: 19

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/28/2018 1:26:51 AM

palioboy2

Posts: 190
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
Status: offline

That would be the cause then. Thanks.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 20

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/28/2018 10:54:47 AM

Alpha77

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I believe this upgrade of unit fractions was changed in some patch - set to not working. Reason would be, if you upgraded one regiment of a division, but the others are not upgraded the divison can not be formed as they have now differing devices.

(in reply to palioboy2)

Post #: 21

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/28/2018 3:27:35 PM

GetAssista

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Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
I believe this upgrade of unit fractions was changed in some patch - set to not working. Reason would be, if you upgraded one regiment of a division, but the others are not upgraded the divison can not be formed as they have now differing devices.

Fractions are those resulting from loading on ships or air transporting. A/B/C regiments can upgrade separately, in fact it is standard practice to upgrade division infantry squads via successive A/B/C because you need only this many squads to upgrade a regiment

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 22

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 4/30/2018 7:01:26 PM

dwesolick

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From: Colorado
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Lots of good info in this thread! I'm also amazed at how much I still can learn about this game, and I've been playing since the UV days (hell, since Grigsby's PacWar days...back in the Truman administration, I think).

One thing I've never seen though, playing against the Japanese AI, is a serious push by Japan into India. I pretty much let them have Burma and I keep and fortify Chittagong, Imphal, Kohima, Ledo, etc. and the AI always seems content to just keep Burma and launch air raids into India. Even in my current #102 scenario where the AI is very solid and aggressive, it seems to be a repeat in CBI (in Jun 42 now). Anyone ever have the AI make a serious attempt to invade India?

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(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 23

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 5/1/2018 6:03:46 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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A reminder to new players, this is only applicable to the Allies. Japan doesn't have anywhere near the amount of LCU upgrades the Allies have but as Japan creates device points through its Industry the only criterea that is important is supply and not pools.

(in reply to dwesolick)

Post #: 24

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 5/1/2018 8:14:39 AM

Dili

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Joined: 9/10/2004
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What about for devices that are not build? i think for that devices pools matter for Japan.

And when playing with PDU OFF?

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 25

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 5/2/2018 5:25:08 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

What about for devices that are not build? i think for that devices pools matter for Japan.

And when playing with PDU OFF?

What devices might that be?

Can't comment on PDU off nevr played it.

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 26

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 5/3/2018 3:34:14 AM

PaxMondo

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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PDU OFF only affects aircraft AFAIK, has nothing to do with devices.

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Post #: 27

RE: questions - squad upgrades and recon - 5/4/2018 5:18:21 AM

Dili

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Thanks Pax.

Chris21wen means for example guns and AFV of models that are not build from start. Lets say a big mortar from begin of the century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28_cm_howitzer_L/10

They should be available in the pool but not being able to be build by industry.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 28