RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 7:27:52 AM

sillyflower

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Turn 3

In a feeble attempt to spark the reader's curiosity, I shall post the pics in reverse order.

11th Army, divesting itself of a couple of Romanian divs, clears the way for FBD2. Only token resistance met as the commies retreat in cowardly fashion to the next river line. The Romanians concentrate on shuffling forward and locking up the Lvov pocket, which Brian had broken again further north. Hence no effort to reduce the pocket this turn. Still, Brian did leave behind 1 inf div that could have escaped, and sent in a sacrificial cav xx, so not all bad.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/5/2015 8:37:00 AM >

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 7:38:24 AM

sillyflower

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South central

Finally locked down I hope. I inf xx and 2 A/B xs that had been trying to restrict my supply line in the Rovno area have been dealt with appropriately.

One strange event in that pocket. The cav xx in the pocket decided to rout out when I just wanted it to move back 1 hex. This was disappointing, until I realised that it routed to Tarnopol despite that city being in a pocket further to the west. Clearly, Soviet obsession with secrecy re maps can be a disadvantage at times, or maybe they are just desperate to become HIWIs.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 8:18:06 AM

sillyflower

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AGC

A bit of a disaster. The lone isolated HQ that I had left all alone in a pocket just NE of Kaunas (see post 17 above), turned out not to be alone. It turned out that there was a routed inf unit with it, which recovered in Brian's turn and which he used to cut the rail lines just E of Kaunas.After practising my extensive Anglo-Saxon vocabulary, I had to send FBS 3 back to repair the damage. This cost me a whole turn of rail repair in the center which is not ideal. In the meantime, the recce pilots responsible for missing that division are now flying daylight recce missions over England. At least, they were the last time I heard.

Otherwise, just tidying up the battlefield (to use one of Montgomery's favourite expressions) and the armour pushes forward whist awaiting the infantry who are marching as fast as their little legs will carry them. The armour tries to balance progress with access to petrol.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 9:35:23 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Turn 3

In a feeble attempt to spark the reader's curiosity, I shall post the pics in reverse order.

consider my curiosity totally picqued ...

looks like Brian is very much of the mindset that costing you time/mps at this phase matters more than his own losses?

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 12:06:53 PM

sillyflower

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He wrote in his AAR (vs Pelton I think) that running was not his style - then promptly did it. It comes back to: where is the tipping point for losses of men/units in the early turns. The views of others on this issue are particularly welcome.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 3:12:42 PM

chaos45

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Be interesting to see going forward...I think if he keeps burning up units forward like he is, he will be short troops to properly defend the Dnepr. His rail line cut in the center for sure cost you time tho.

Looking forward to seeing the north, as with all those units still tied up in the south his northern front cant be very strong at all.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 7:02:04 PM

Manstein63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

A bit of a disaster. The lone isolated HQ that I had left all alone in a pocket just NE of Kaunas (see post 17 above), turned out not to be alone. It turned out that there was a routed inf unit with it, which recovered in Brian's turn and which he used to cut the rail lines just E of Kaunas.After practising my extensive Anglo-Saxon vocabulary, I had to send FBS 3 back to repair the damage. This cost me a whole turn of rail repair in the center which is not ideal. In the meantime, the recce pilots responsible for missing that division are now flying daylight recce missions over England. At least, they were the last time I heard.

Otherwise, just tidying up the battlefield (to use one of Montgomery's favourite expressions) and the armour pushes forward whist awaiting the infantry who are marching as fast as their little legs will carry them. The armour tries to balance progress with access to petrol.

The Great and all powerful Sillyflower has made a mistake, there is hope for me yet.
Manstein63

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 8:18:07 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

there is hope for me yet.
Manstein63

Don't be silly

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 8:23:28 PM

sillyflower

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Now to the North. My plan was to pin Brian in the south, to make it easier up here by minimising the flow of reinforcements up here in the early turns.

Whether it was a result of my cunning plan or the reduction in the number of troops either side can rail, or both, the plan seems to be working. Recce showed that Pskov appeared to be empty apart from an already routed unit.My panzers were well gassed (thanks to having held them back on T2) and I suspect Brian underestimated how far they could go. Luckily Morvael's .07 hotfix meant that cities were no longer dense terrain, making the assault relatively easy for Manstein's corps as the only defender was the inf xx I had just kicked out of the fort to the west of Pskov. For once, the Luftwaffe did not lie

. I had petrol to spare to clear the area near Pskov to make it very difficult for Brian to hug me too closely: not that he seems to have much there. I think the inf div visible in the the marsh is the 1 that started off in the fort W of Pskov.

I normally hope to take or surround Pskov on T4 or T5 with the hope of getting a bridgehead across the Neva on T7. This is the first time I've done it on T3, and a rare error by the great and all powerful Brian G.

As an aside, I notice that some AAR authors criticise their opponents directly. I do not agree with this for 2 reasons. Firstly, it seems a bit rude, especially when the opponent can't answer back because he is barred from the AAR. More importantly, if you say your opponent is useless, then you don't get much credit for winning. The Pathans have a saying 'you can measure the status of a man by the status of his enemies'. There are ways of critiquing one's opponent's play in a more subtle manner, and you can probably rely on someone else to say that your opponent is an idiot so you don't need to.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/5/2015 10:07:32 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 8:57:19 PM

timmyab

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
He wrote in his AAR (vs Pelton I think) that running was not his style - then promptly did it.

Excellent tactic! Classic art of war. Sun Tzu would be proud.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflowerIt comes back to: where is the tipping point for losses of men/units in the early turns. The views of others on this issue are particularly welcome.

This is the real art of playing the Soviets in the early game. How much can you delay and frustrate the Axis player without getting your ass handed to you. It's a fine line to tread and success requires a good understanding of Axis capabilities.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 9:46:48 PM

sillyflower

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Thoughts on T3

It looks like both of us made unforced errors on T2 that impacted on T3, me in the center, and Brian at Pskov. Obviously however, my 'error' was no such thing, but was the fault of either Goering or 2x3.

Losses were 8,700 axis to 142K commies, most of whom will spend the war as HIWIs or in my factories. Total russian losses be end on german T3 are 757K, so they will be over 800K by the end of T3 with a lot more in southern pockets that are still to be harvested. There will be much chewing of carpets in OKH if Brian breaks either of the southern pockets again.

I expect Brian to leg it in the south, with checkerboards to delay without losing units in the centre and north where the panzers are further from their supplies. He certainly has some interesting choices to make between north and south.

In the air the Red Air Force seems to have abandoned the bombing of airbases, perhaps because I kept the slightly further back last turn. After all, they don't need to be in the front line as they provide their benefits to air supply as long as they are in territory that was in friendly hands at the start of the turn - thanks to .07 again.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/5/2015 10:00:43 PM

chaos45

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I would say its about impossible for either side to have perfect play. Is just to many variables and to many moves/attacks per turn. Any player is bound to make a mistake here and there. Esp with server since even a mis click cant be taken back lol.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/6/2015 7:22:25 AM

sillyflower

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Indeed! The aim is to make fewer errors than one's opponent, and to avoid chaos at all costs

. The mistakes that matter are usually not obvious at the time.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/8/2015 7:22:00 AM

sillyflower

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TURN 4

Strange things are going on in Russia. Comrade J Stalin seems to have been deposed and replaced by the previously unknown Comrade D Shannon. No other explanation has been found for the fact that our wireless intercepts of Soviet communications now only pick up the sound of a song called 'Runaway' sung by the new president.

The Red Army has obviously been crushed in only 3 weeks of campaigning and has ceased to exist beyond the odd, scattered unit or troops who have no means of escape from my justice. Former chief of staff Comrade B Gutner is rumoured to have fled to that bastion of evil capitalism New York, whilst muttering something about the need to undermine capitalism from within.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/8/2015 8:39:11 AM >

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/8/2015 10:57:59 AM

Manstein63

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It's so frustrating when your opponent won't stay and be surrounded like he should.

Manstein63

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/8/2015 12:02:54 PM

sillyflower

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T4 north. Amazingly, there was no attempt to delay my advance to Luga, though I decided not to occupy it as that would have left my lead division very vulnerable to isolation by a unit that I would have had to rout out rather than surround and then capture on T5. Ending up only 60 miles from Leningrad isn't bad but I expect that resistance may strengthen.

I was obviously so surprised by all this that I seem to have failed to take any screenies of T4, or else I deleted or mis-labelled them all. Silly me.

At least I remembered to move the Finns, which I had failed to do in our previous game that got this far.

Elsewhere, it was a question of the infantry moving up as fast as their little legs would carry the, with the armour clearing their path for T5. Trying to balance this against the need to digest large numbers of commies in pockets. I did clear 1 of the 3 level forts adjacent to Kiev but I did not advance in because the city had been cleared of its HI and arms factories.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/8/2015 1:27:23 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/8/2015 12:28:13 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

It's so frustrating when your opponent won't stay and be surrounded like he should.

How would you know, sir?

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RE: SILLY's SWAN-SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 8:25:00 PM

sillyflower

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I really am very Silly. I have just found the T4 pics. In the usual order:

After routing the 2 sec x's at Pskov using inf xx at the end of their MPs doing hasties, the road was clear so leading Pz units are now only 60 miles from the home of the revolution. The North seems almost devoid of troops - for now - but it won't be long before the city is renamed St Aldolf'sburg. I hope not anyway but getting over the Luga and through the marshes is not easy

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 8:33:00 PM

sillyflower

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centre

Again, all the token resistance is crushed as the infantry continues to close up. As in the north, all his units seemed to be tied up along 1 side of my advance, rather like a crowd watching a victory parade. This must be what they are doing

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 8:38:20 PM

sillyflower

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Kiev

Another unopposed advance. The battle showing the crushing of the defenders of a strong fort protecting Kiev was the only 1 on the screen other than reductions of the 2 pockets. The latter activity is much harder than it used to be, but it used to be much too easy.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 8:45:46 PM

chaos45

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Ya the north looks wide open....the entire luga line isnt even manned----without a massive shift of forces will be extremely hard for him to hold Leningrad as you should vault across the luga in at least 1 spot next turn since there is no way he can fortifiy the line in one turn. Think you are pushing hard in all areas an you can see it is certainly stressing the soviets early ability to respond in time.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 8:46:28 PM

sillyflower

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Down Romania way

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 8:54:50 PM

sillyflower

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The bold sweep down to grab territory whilst pocketing a herd of baddies did not quite work, but it looked like a good idea at the time. Still is but significant escapes are likely. The west end of the open pocket is only a Romanian cav x so cannot expect still to be there next turn, and the Pz div on the other side is not going to have any petrol next turn as it's bound to be pocketed. Hopefully the others will be OK although combat against Russians who seem to have forgotten that they are supposed to rout when attacked, has not left them all well positioned.

The southern rail line has been cleared though so that the FBD there will not get held up, which is important especially if he keeps running..

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/9/2015 10:00:01 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 9:24:58 PM

sillyflower

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Thoughts on T4

A somewhat precipitate flight by the cowardly commies. As Manstein 63 posited a few posts back, they should have the decency to fight and be pocketed.

It's looking like the great bulk of Brian's forces are in the south despite the heavy unit losses he has had here. Pelton reported the same thing in his AAR vs Brian so he clearly has his reasons. For my money, he is over-committed here. That could be very helpful as the new rail arrangements will make it much harder to shift his strength northwards. Still he gets a lot of new divisions in the north and center over the coming few turns so he is probably hoping these will be enough. Given that even the shells now arrive at full strength rather than taking 2 or 3 turns and seem to have starting morale only just short on the NM, there maybe something in that. We shall see, but to slow the germans in '41 (and '42) requires large numbers of units; not just a small number of relatively good ones who will be vulnerable to pocketing.

I actually remembered to move the Finns this time, unlike in my only other game vs Brian that got this far, but their efforts did not warrant pictoral fame. No sign of Brian having sent ant reinforcement up there so Marshal Mannerheim has promised a good haul of prisoners in the next couple of weeks

Turn ground losses were 4.2K to 190K (nice) but air losses were an unimpressive 29:74 due to the refusal of the LW fighter arm to escort its bombers.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/9/2015 10:48:15 PM

chaos45

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yes but those new units even tho they fill to 90%+ ToE quickly...they have really low starting experience most only 20-30.......so they are smashed easily by german attacks if thrown right into the line. also by T10 or so the Soviet manpower pool starts to run dry even with the disbanding of all the junk soviet Air HQs and airbases for more manpower. After that the soviets are relying on the weekly 160k+ or so replacements to fill units and it starts to take longer if you want them full strength.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/12/2015 7:20:48 AM

sillyflower

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Turn 5

I wrote too soon that Brian had stopped recce airbase bombing, as he returned to his favourite hobby in force. In 6 raids, he managed to knock out 6 recce planes for the loss of 95 bombers. HA!

A rare picture of the Finns as they actually managed to surrodnd 3 inf divs and 2 security ants:

.

Hmmm. The discerning reader will see that this is not a picture of the Finnish blitzkreig. Sorry, but there doesn't seem to be one after all (I can't find it anyway) so this will have to do. The Russian mech div in Luga had no stomach for a fight - routing on a 4:1 attack. The Luga line, if I can call it that, was breached by Manstein's corps and the SS crossed over ready to fend off the inevitable counterattack. My forces did not have good MPs this turn (even the inf who were not in ZOCs had only 10-12 MPs) so I could not get anyone else over the river or do anything else than get ready for a more butch T6.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/12/2015 7:40:35 AM

sillyflower

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I am useless. What was billed as a pic. of AGC was something completely different. Oh well, you did not miss much. Brian abandoned Mogilev and its factories, and AGC advanced up to Smolensk without meeting any worthwhile resistance and without trying to cross the Dnepr. Just walk past it and the Russians will abandon it anyway. Recce beyond Smolensk didn't show much evidence of a main line of resistance further back.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/12/2015 9:18:56 AM >

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/12/2015 3:09:21 PM

chaos45

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Situation doesnt look good for the Soviets. As your recon shows very little soviet forces around leningrad so it should fall fairly quickly.

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/12/2015 5:54:28 PM

Steelwarrior7

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Where are you repairing your rail line with the FBDs?
How do you reorganize army group south - which seems to be a hell of a mess?

< Message edited by Steelwarrior7 -- 12/12/2015 7:25:41 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWAN_SONG NO BRIAN G - 12/12/2015 6:39:21 PM

smokindave34

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Situation doesnt look good for the Soviets. As your recon shows very little soviet forces around leningrad so it should fall fairly quickly.

Agreed, not much defense in depth around Leningrad. I'd be railing troops there as fast as possible if I was Brian.

Also...I demand to see screenshots of the Finnish blitzkrieg!

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