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First Impressions - 11/24/2015 2:53:23 PM   
GI_Tom

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/10/2009
From: Plano, Texas
Status: offline 		A humble plea from all of us that may be stuck at work, or elsewhere, if someone could come here and give their opinion and first impressions after a few hours of play, we would be immensely thankful! Other than WiTE, this will be the only other release date purchase so far for me. This one looks good from everything posted and read so far imho.

Thanks in advance and hope all you current downloaders enjoy it.
Post #: 1
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 3:04:30 PM   
Barthheart


Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline 		My first impressions are already up over here:

http://grogheads.com/?p=9448#more-9448

TL;DR






_____________________________

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

(in reply to GI_Tom)
Post #: 2
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:08:01 PM   
GI_Tom

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/10/2009
From: Plano, Texas
Status: offline 		Thanks for link Barthheart. Well written and informative.

< Message edited by GI_Tom -- 11/24/2015 5:12:53 PM >

(in reply to Barthheart)
Post #: 3
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:10:08 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Ok

Just went through all the tutorials which are clear, well put together and well spoken and describe really well the unique nature of this game.

Now to come to grief on the wreckage of broken down Panzers and empty fuel trucks :-)

Seriously guys, good job with the video tutorials. I am no grognard but they were exactly what I was looking for.

_____________________________

"I do not agree with what you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it"

(in reply to Barthheart)
Post #: 4
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:14:28 PM   
gwgardner

 

Posts: 6722
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		I've been playtesting the game, so this is not a first impression, but after playing it from both sides extensively.

Anyone having played Advanced Tactics Gold, or even better the Decisive Campaigns games, will have an idea of the basics of play. However, even if you have not played those, the video tutorials in this game are outstanding and can be completed quickly.

The game is at the army/corps/division level, just perfect for a campaign of the scope of Barbarossa.

It's the most immersive gaming experience I've ever had, and I've been playing wargames since the '70s.

The AXIS player is involved in decision-making related to diplomacy, propoganda, morality, and most important of all - the entire supply/replacement organization and pipeline. Every decision you make has an impact on your relationships with the historical generals and political figures of the time, from Hitler to Brauchitcsh, Keitel, Jodl, Ribbentrop, Goebbels, Goering and to all of your army group and lower commanders. And you will develop a VERY intense relationship with Generals Wagner and Gercke, who are in charge of road and railroad supply and infrastructure/repair. You will learn to utilize the skills of your aide-de-camp and chief of staff. Their reports and presentation of decisions makes your job manageable.

The Soviet player essentially plays the part of the Stalin's chief of staff. Underneath you, you have Kruschev as overall political commissar, and Zhukov as your military hammer in the field. Both serve to tighten up your control and influence over your Front and army commanders, providing them encourgement, the benefit of your skills, or threats, as needed. Your decision-making has less overall scope than the Axis player, but there are high-level actions you are able to make on a turn-by-turn basis that impact supply, replacements, reinforcements, command capabilities in the field, and the very organizational efficiency of the Soviet military forces.

Of course, on both sides, you will be pushing the counters around. Yes, you take on all the above decision-making/role-playing, but you will also be managing the division, corps and army movements and combat.

I can't imagine another wargame on a specific historical campaign that has more plausible replayability than this game.

This is THE ultimate PC wargame. An absolute must have.

(in reply to Barthheart)
Post #: 5
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:21:35 PM   
Kumppi


Posts: 209
Joined: 10/21/2008
From: Somewhere between Sweden and Russia
Status: offline 		Video tutorials are great, but who let an aussie into OKH ;)

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 6
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:23:29 PM   
pierreoza

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline 		The manual is very good !

(in reply to Kumppi)
Post #: 7
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:52:11 PM   
Alex1812


Posts: 274
Joined: 7/19/2013
From: Russia
Status: offline 		No aviation in the game. I'm really disappointed

(in reply to pierreoza)
Post #: 8
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:57:53 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alex1812

No aviation in the game. I'm really disappointed

The LW is there, you have the option to use it in an strategic roll for three turns or less, its a decision event and afterwards you have to assign it to an Army or Pz Gruppe.
The LW can also supply fuel and armament. It's done playing the cards.

_____________________________


GG's AWD, GG's WBTS, GG's WitE Beta Tester
Beta Tester: Panzer Corps, Time of Fury, CtGW, DC CB, DC3 Barbarossa, SC WWII WiE, SC WWII WaW, SC WWI

(in reply to Alex1812)
Post #: 9
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 4:59:38 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alex1812

No aviation in the game. I'm really disappointed


The air war is abstracted but that doesn't mean the player does not have to make some hard choices about how to use the Luftwaffe and when to relocate to more forward airfields. Also there a quite a number of decisions that involve the Luftwaffe and Goering.

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Alex1812)
Post #: 10
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 5:27:23 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
The air war is abstracted but that doesn't mean the player does not have to make some hard choices about how to use the Luftwaffe and when to relocate to more forward airfields. Also there a quite a number of decisions that involve the Luftwaffe and Goering.

So the Luftwaffe is included but not the Soviet air forces?

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 11
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 5:29:31 PM   
Matto


Posts: 1138
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Czech Republic
Status: offline 		How many time I need for playing one turn? And how many needs AI? Thanks

_____________________________

Excuse my English ... I hope is better then Your Czech ... :o)
My MatrixGames: WitP, WitP AE, WPO, JTCS, P&S, CoGEE, ATG, GoA, B.Academy, C-GW, OoB all DLCs, all SC, FoG2/E, most AGEOD games ...


(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 12
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 5:32:06 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matto

How many time I need for playing one turn? And how many needs AI? Thanks


It depends on how much you ponder your turn, decisions and moves. But I think depending on your speed a German turn would take like 10-20 minutes while a Soviet turn will probably be done in 5-10 minutes.

The AI takes about 1-2 minutes on my computer.

Best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Matto)
Post #: 13
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 5:38:40 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
The air war is abstracted but that doesn't mean the player does not have to make some hard choices about how to use the Luftwaffe and when to relocate to more forward airfields. Also there a quite a number of decisions that involve the Luftwaffe and Goering.

So the Luftwaffe is included but not the Soviet air forces?


Basically yes.

But by the end of the year there is a minor role for the VVS in which the Soviet player will receive an action card that can be used to provide limited Soviet air cover on a limited frontage.

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 14
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 5:38:50 PM   
Matto


Posts: 1138
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Czech Republic
Status: offline 		It sounds good ... thanks. I have Advanced Tactics Gold only and thinking about another your game ...

_____________________________

Excuse my English ... I hope is better then Your Czech ... :o)
My MatrixGames: WitP, WitP AE, WPO, JTCS, P&S, CoGEE, ATG, GoA, B.Academy, C-GW, OoB all DLCs, all SC, FoG2/E, most AGEOD games ...


(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 15
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 6:25:29 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Is the map abstract too?

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Matto)
Post #: 16
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 6:34:32 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		Any map that uses hexagons is necessarily abstract. A hexagonal grid only allows perfectly straight lines in three directions.

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 17
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 6:46:56 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14
Is the map abstract too?


I am sure Cameron will give you an answer on the Memel hexes when he arrives in office. Which should be soon as the sun is rising on down under.

Best wishes,
Vic



_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 18
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 6:47:04 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Philippe, please. That is no excuse. If it has not been corrected, take a look at it...it looks horrible and laughable and sad (there were even Soviet at start units in what should be German territory). There are easily 4 hexes that should start German. One of the developers mentioned they would fix it, but I have yet to see it.

If they cant get something so historically simple correct, then what else is wrong or inaccurate? This will determine if I buy this or any of the other DC games.

Thank you for responding Vic!

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 11/24/2015 7:53:01 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 19
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 7:02:11 PM   
Blond_Knight


Posts: 1031
Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline 		But you only brought this to Vic and Cameron's attention in the last week or so right? Its unreasonable to expect them to make a change in so short a time close to release.

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 20
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 7:20:14 PM   
pierreoza

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline 		just see and wait JagTiger :)

(in reply to Blond_Knight)
Post #: 21
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 7:47:25 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		I think there may be some misconceptions about what is going on here that need to be cleared up.

The yellow line that this discussion is dancing around is not a border as much as the extreme edge of both sides' zones of control. It updates dynamically and changes the instant any unit near it begins to move. The presence or absence of a German zone of control in that hex has no impact on gameplay whatsoever, and ceases to exist the instant any of the three German divisions next to it begin moving (at which moment the hex becomes German).

I am not a member of the development team and cannot speak for what Vic and Cameron are or are not doing. But I have looked at five detailed Russian sitrep maps that show exactly what was where at the start of Barbarossa. My interpretation of those maps (which is neccessarily different from Cameron's) is that the single hex (NOT four hexes) that represents the swampy mouth of the Neman should probably be shown in German rather than Soviet control.

But I also observe that several more patches are likely to come out since I have never seen a game that didn't get patched subsequent to release.


I am not sure, however, that moving a hex (or even two) from Russian control to German control on the initial map is going to make it to the top of any reasonable to-do list. As I said before, that hex and several hexes around it become instantly German the moment the shooting starts. Whether the hex in question starts out German or Soviet changes nothing that happens in the game. There are over eight thousand hexes in the gamemap: having one hex on the wrong side of a border for one instant does not make the entire map inaccurate.

At the risk of violating secrets of the confessional, your original point about the map was duly noted, just not discussed in public.



(in reply to Blond_Knight)
Post #: 22
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 9:09:57 PM   
lancer

 

Posts: 2963
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		Hi JagdTiger,

I'm the official cartographer and the issue you've raised is one we weren't aware of until recently. There is some very conflicting evidence regarding this but we've investigated it and it appears that you're correct.

The map has been updated, as of yesterday, and should be rolled out in a forthcoming patch.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Map's, it appears, are a bit like history. Every version is different.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 23
RE: First Impressions - 11/24/2015 9:22:52 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Thank you Cameron! I appreciate you and your team looking into this and making the corrections. I am interested in purchasing the game.


_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 24
RE: First Impressions - 11/25/2015 3:48:57 AM   
GI_Tom

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/10/2009
From: Plano, Texas
Status: offline 		Ok, so I came home and purchased the game. Very much appreciate those who posted above that helped sway my decision.

1. Big thanks to designers/developers, etc. and the entire VR team.
2. The tutorials are FANTASTIC. Well done and thanks for taking the time to do those. For those who may not have the game, or who were NOT familiar with any of the previous series (like me), these tutorials do an excellent job of explaining various aspects. Combined they take in excess of 1 to 1.5 hours to watch, but are well worth it. These are the very best tutorials for a more complex game that I've had the pleasure of viewing.
3. The manual is superb. Excellent descriptions, art, etc. Well laid out and explained.
4. The detail and info on the counters is also excellent. Like how I can see at different levels and customize counters to my preference.
5. Reading the reports and making strategic level decisions really adds to the gameplay experience. I really felt as if I could be at HQ as I perused the info coming in from the front, etc.

Complaints? Only one. The map. So much more (imho) could be added to the immersion factor with some added polish. It is fully functional, but could use an upgrade in terrain type graphics, city graphics, etc.

All in all, very pleased with the purchase. Tonight only had time for the tutorials and 3 or 4 turns. While Der Fuhrer is not fully pleased with my progress, I have managed to encircle 20-25 divisions thus far and am making good progress in the Center.

I will be spending notable time learning this title.

Thanks for putting out a quality product.

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 25
RE: First Impressions - 11/25/2015 9:18:44 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I've been playtesting the game, so this is not a first impression, but after playing it from both sides extensively.

Anyone having played Advanced Tactics Gold, or even better the Decisive Campaigns games, will have an idea of the basics of play. However, even if you have not played those, the video tutorials in this game are outstanding and can be completed quickly.

The game is at the army/corps/division level, just perfect for a campaign of the scope of Barbarossa.

It's the most immersive gaming experience I've ever had, and I've been playing wargames since the '70s.

The AXIS player is involved in decision-making related to diplomacy, propoganda, morality, and most important of all - the entire supply/replacement organization and pipeline. Every decision you make has an impact on your relationships with the historical generals and political figures of the time, from Hitler to Brauchitcsh, Keitel, Jodl, Ribbentrop, Goebbels, Goering and to all of your army group and lower commanders. And you will develop a VERY intense relationship with Generals Wagner and Gercke, who are in charge of road and railroad supply and infrastructure/repair. You will learn to utilize the skills of your aide-de-camp and chief of staff. Their reports and presentation of decisions makes your job manageable.

The Soviet player essentially plays the part of the Stalin's chief of staff. Underneath you, you have Kruschev as overall political commissar, and Zhukov as your military hammer in the field. Both serve to tighten up your control and influence over your Front and army commanders, providing them encourgement, the benefit of your skills, or threats, as needed. Your decision-making has less overall scope than the Axis player, but there are high-level actions you are able to make on a turn-by-turn basis that impact supply, replacements, reinforcements, command capabilities in the field, and the very organizational efficiency of the Soviet military forces.

Of course, on both sides, you will be pushing the counters around. Yes, you take on all the above decision-making/role-playing, but you will also be managing the division, corps and army movements and combat.

I can't imagine another wargame on a specific historical campaign that has more plausible replayability than this game.

This is THE ultimate PC wargame. An absolute must have.


How can it be a game with a lot of replayability when there is only one front and all the units are the same in the same position when you begin a new playthrough?

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 26
RE: First Impressions - 11/25/2015 9:27:19 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		as you chose which one have the extra supports options with the cards system in use

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3973510

but will post some more of this if you wish?

already been called a fanboy, but giving users a choice and feedback is or can be part of being a tester, it's a users impressions, if that implies we are fanboys, so be it, but not a title i think is correct either

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 27
RE: First Impressions - 11/25/2015 9:29:27 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		options,





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 11/25/2015 10:29:41 AM >

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 28
RE: First Impressions - 11/25/2015 9:29:54 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		more turn options





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 11/25/2015 10:31:19 AM >

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 29
RE: First Impressions - 11/25/2015 9:31:44 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		and depending on your settings used, some more options to select





so depending on what starting options and difficulty selected, the options for each turn change, so re playability alters regarding your settings and not only your counter moves etc etc

this shows just a few of the Germans side ones, the Russians have more

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 11/25/2015 10:34:00 AM >

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 30
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