Should I consider buying this?

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Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:19:14 PM

gtrpastor

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I've been looking at this game since it came out. I watched the whole Twitch video and found it interesting. There is one thing holding me back from buying it: I like a game that is deep, but not too complicated to use. I like Panzer Corps (simple) and Advanced Tactics (complex, but not really complicated). TOAW III is a bit on the complicated side--I'm working at it, but I don't like it when I read the manual, read through AARs, and still don't understand everything (perhaps not a fault of the game, but of my level of patience).

Where does this game fit on that spectrum?

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:35:13 PM

Crossroads

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Hello speef, welcome to the forum! There's a couple of Bootcamp videos at the War Room sub forum, maybe they'd help you to get an idea on how the game plays out

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CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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Post #: 2

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:39:59 PM

gtrpastor

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Thanks Crossroads. I'll check those out.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:42:29 PM

Jason Petho

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It's like chess; easy to learn, difficult to master.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:46:34 PM

gtrpastor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

It's like chess; easy to learn, difficult to master.

Sounds good. Easier to learn than TOAW? Or have you not played that?

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Post #: 5

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:54:34 PM

Crossroads

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I'd say this is a easier than TOAW, although what you know is easy right. I read your post there, I recall my first victory at Kasserine Pass too. Man was I happy about myself then!

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CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 <-- Jan 20th, 2022! --
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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Post #: 6

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:58:51 PM

gtrpastor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

I'd say this is a easier than TOAW, although what you know is easy right. I read your post there, I recall my first victory at Kasserine Pass too. Man was I happy about myself then!

:)

Still an amazing game...because I want to keep playing just so I can win again!

< Message edited by speef -- 11/25/2015 6:59:58 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:59:01 PM

76mm

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Yeah, I think it is easier than TOAW. This game has a pretty lengthy rulebook (100+ pages) but the mechanics are really pretty simple, conventional, and intuitive. I'm still working on some issues better, like engineers and leaders, but generally it is pretty easy to pick up.

Note, however, that I've been playing computer wargames for a long time, and it sounds like you're pretty new, so it might be a bit harder for you, but I doubt that much.

There might be a demo or at least a cheap game for some of the older JTCS games, which are basically this game before it was revamped. This game will look much better and has some other improvements, but gameplay is very similar.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 5:59:47 PM

Crossroads

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Or should I rephrase that: Campaign Series is more traditional than TOAW, which turn sequence is pretty unique and takes some time to get used to. What we have here is the classic Action Points based system, so completing ones turn is more straightforward, than with TOAW.

Don't want to upset my TOAW friends, and while different (or rather, because of that), I like it a lot as well.

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CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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Post #: 9

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:01:10 PM

Big Ivan

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IMO I think it is easier than TOAW.

Once you get the hang of the movement, combat and artillery plotting its pretty simple after that.

Remember it is tactical in nature and LOS (Line of Sight) plays a big role. If you can be seen you can be killed and vice versa.

One of the biggest positives about this game is it is turn based and with that having been said it is excellent for play by e-mail (PBEM).

There is a whole nation of Campaign Series PBEM players here, at the Blitz War game Club and the War Gamers Club for gentlemen.

Also there is a fantastic resource of experienced players and designers that have mucho experience in addressing questions and problems.

Hope you take the plunge and enjoy CSME.

Good Luck!
Big Ivan

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:03:49 PM

gtrpastor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Yeah, I think it is easier than TOAW. This game has a pretty lengthy rulebook (100+ pages) but the mechanics are really pretty simple, conventional, and intuitive. I'm still working on some issues better, like engineers and leaders, but generally it is pretty easy to pick up.

Note, however, that I've been playing computer wargames for a long time, and it sounds like you're pretty new, so it might be a bit harder for you, but I doubt that much.

There might be a demo or at least a cheap game for some of the older JTCS games, which are basically this game before it was revamped. This game will look much better and has some other improvements, but gameplay is very similar.

I'm pretty new to the hardcore wargames... I've been playing Advanced Tactics for awhile, but nothing like War in the West or anything.

Thanks for the tip. I did find a demo at the John Tiller site for Muis '43. I'll play through that and see if I like it. I've played a few of his iPad games. This looks similar, although much bigger in scope.

< Message edited by speef -- 11/25/2015 7:06:09 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:05:11 PM

gtrpastor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Or should I rephrase that: Campaign Series is more traditional than TOAW, which turn sequence is pretty unique and takes some time to get used to. What we have here is the classic Action Points based system, so completing ones turn is more straightforward, than with TOAW.

Don't want to upset my TOAW friends, and while different (or rather, because of that), I like it a lot as well.

Makes sense. I'm used to the Action Points system from Advanced Tactics.

(in reply to Crossroads)

Post #: 12

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:12:27 PM

berto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: speef

I like Panzer Corps (simple) and Advanced Tactics (complex, but not really complicated). TOAW III is a bit on the complicated side--I'm working at it, but I don't like it when I read the manual, read through AARs, and still don't understand everything (perhaps not a fault of the game, but of my level of patience).

Where does this game fit on that spectrum?

I have vague memories of playing Panzer General & Pacific General ~15 years ago. In the Campaign Series, the basic mechanics of moving, firing, assaulting etc. are about as easy as Panzer Corps (similar to Panzer General etc.), I'd guess. But playing it easy, you will lose more than you will win, of course, even playing solo vs. the A/I. The Campaign Series A/I is pretty decent.

I would agree that the CS games are easier than TOAW. But taking into account all the subtleties, not by much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

It's like chess; easy to learn, difficult to master.

Definitely, spot on.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:20:08 PM

76mm

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quote:

I did find a demo at the John Tiller site for Muis '43. I'll play through that and see if I like it.

Note that Mius 43 is a demo for a different John Tiller series: Panzer Campaigns.

I didn't see a demo for the John Tiller Campaign Series (ie, the basis for this game), but the original series is on sale for what looks like $20 (mine is priced in Russian rubles so not sure about exact $ amount). I have this set as well, and it has LOTS of content, but I found it virtually unplayable on a high-resolution monitor because the hexes and units were too small to be easily visible for my old eyes. This issue has been fixed in this game.

By the way the Panzer Campaigns series is fairly similar to this series, but is one level up, ie operational rather than tactical like this game. So units are basically battalions, there is no ranged fire (other than arty, etc.). There are lots of very good Panzer Campaigns games; while the Mius demo will give you a good idea of how gameplay works, the game itself is pretty dull IMHO.

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Post #: 14

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:36:50 PM

gtrpastor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: speef

I like Panzer Corps (simple) and Advanced Tactics (complex, but not really complicated). TOAW III is a bit on the complicated side--I'm working at it, but I don't like it when I read the manual, read through AARs, and still don't understand everything (perhaps not a fault of the game, but of my level of patience).

Where does this game fit on that spectrum?

I have vague memories of playing Panzer General & Pacific General ~15 years ago. In the Campaign Series, the basic mechanics of moving, firing, assaulting etc. are about as easy as Panzer Corps (similar to Panzer General etc.), I'd guess. But playing it easy, you will lose more than you will win, of course, even playing solo vs. the A/I. The Campaign Series A/I is pretty decent.

I would agree that the CS games are easier than TOAW. But taking into account all the subtleties, not by much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

It's like chess; easy to learn, difficult to master.

Definitely, spot on.

Sounds good. I'm not so much looking for a game that is easy as in not challenging, but rather not too complicated to pick up and play. I don't mind a challenge, as long as I can figure out why I lost.

< Message edited by speef -- 11/25/2015 7:37:54 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:37:48 PM

Crossroads

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quote:

ORIGINAL: speef
Makes sense. I'm used to the Action Points system from Advanced Tactics.

Well then this should be not that unfamiliar to you. Having perhaps looked at the Bootcamp videos, done with 3D View, here's an AAR I wrote at the Grogheads AAR forum about my PBEM game vs Berto. I do like my map boards and counters, so it is done completely using the 2D view, my favourite.

The AAR also depicts quite nicely how the 1.00 game looks like out of the box, and its evolution towards the 1.01 version, that should be out in not too distant future.

_____________________________

Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
---
CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 <-- Jan 20th, 2022! --
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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Post #: 16

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:38:37 PM

gtrpastor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

quote:

ORIGINAL: speef
Makes sense. I'm used to the Action Points system from Advanced Tactics.

Well then this should be not that unfamiliar to you. Having perhaps looked at the Bootcamp videos, done with 3D View, here's an AAR I wrote at the Grogheads AAR forum about my PBEM game vs Berto. I do like my map boards and counters, so it is done completely using the 2D view, my favourite.

The AAR also depicts quite nicely how the 1.00 game looks like out of the box, and its evolution towards the 1.01 version, that should be out in not too distant future.

Okay, I'll check that out!

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Post #: 17

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/25/2015 6:43:28 PM

gtrpastor

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Joined: 6/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

I did find a demo at the John Tiller site for Muis '43. I'll play through that and see if I like it.

Note that Mius 43 is a demo for a different John Tiller series: Panzer Campaigns.

I didn't see a demo for the John Tiller Campaign Series (ie, the basis for this game), but the original series is on sale for what looks like $20 (mine is priced in Russian rubles so not sure about exact $ amount). I have this set as well, and it has LOTS of content, but I found it virtually unplayable on a high-resolution monitor because the hexes and units were too small to be easily visible for my old eyes. This issue has been fixed in this game.

By the way the Panzer Campaigns series is fairly similar to this series, but is one level up, ie operational rather than tactical like this game. So units are basically battalions, there is no ranged fire (other than arty, etc.). There are lots of very good Panzer Campaigns games; while the Mius demo will give you a good idea of how gameplay works, the game itself is pretty dull IMHO.

I'll keep that in mind when I try it out. It looks like Tiller's UI is similar on all the games, so from that perspective I'll hopefully get an idea.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/28/2015 9:09:58 PM

gtrpastor

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With the Matrix sale I could hardly resist... I purchased the older Campaign Series for $20.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/29/2015 1:22:16 AM

Jason Petho

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Great news, Speef!

That will definitely give an insight on how Middle East plays.

Any questions, feel free to ask any questions!

Jason Petho

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/29/2015 2:39:48 AM

budd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: speef

With the Matrix sale I could hardly resist... I purchased the older Campaign Series for $20.

don't forget to update,welcome aboard.

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I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/29/2015 3:02:47 AM

Jason Petho

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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**
don't forget to update,welcome aboard.

+1!!

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/29/2015 3:19:37 AM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: speef
With the Matrix sale I could hardly resist... I purchased the older Campaign Series for $20.

But don't judge this game by the older series; while game play is very similar, the graphics have been vastly improved. The biggest difference (for me) was adding some zoom levels to the map, so that now I can actually see the game..

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/29/2015 4:26:27 PM

Stardog765

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I too have been watching this game for a long while as I am a huge fan of the original series going back to the original release of West Front. I still hold that old fat manual in my hand fondly :)

I really want to support the team but mainly for future releases as in all honesty I am not really interested in this games particular time period other than the 80s part of it and the possibility of someone using this game for a basis of maybe more modern Israel operations into the 90s and early 2000s but I am not sure if that is even possible.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/29/2015 10:07:34 PM

gtrpastor

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What I can already appreciate is that the game has been updated significantly from its initial release. I played with it a little bit in version 1.0 (just to see what it had been like). Version 2.02 is much improved, from what I could tell--especially with how the game is no longer in one resolution, but it is windowed to the default resolution of my monitor. Nice. And it was updated just last year, which is pretty cool for a game that Matrix first published in 2007. I also had read a review that gave me pause, as the reviewer said that the pieces moved very slowly, causing the game to be extremely tedious. Apparently he didn't realize that the speed of the the movement of the pieces is completely adjustable, both for the human player and the AI. Nice. The graphics are dated, but gameplay is more important to me than graphics. And IMO graphics are not that important for a game such as this.

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/29/2015 10:23:34 PM

Jason Petho

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Really glad to hear you're enjoying the series, speef!

Jason Petho

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RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/30/2015 3:27:57 AM

76mm

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Glad you like it as well. Ordinarily I wouldn't have bought this game--too many other good games just out or coming out soon--but I definitely wanted to support this dev team for the reasons you point out, so I bought it anyway. Really looking forward to the WWII titles being given the same treatment.

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Post #: 27

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/30/2015 5:21:22 AM

Crossroads

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Thanks for your support gentlemen, it is appreciated!

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Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
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CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 <-- Jan 20th, 2022! --
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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Post #: 28

RE: Should I consider buying this? - 11/30/2015 11:26:43 PM

Warhorse