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stupid question from a new player - 11/29/2015 4:14:00 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		just purchase wite yesterday and trying to understand the rules.
look like there is no way to know the odd before ground combat , is it true?
how do you do to attack or not?
is it full fog?

thank

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RE: stupid question from a new player - 11/29/2015 4:56:50 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		first part to the answer - there are no 'stupid' questions around this game. Its deceptively deep and even long standing players don't always agree.

The key in combat is you want a final odds of 2-1 or more. That means you win and the defender abandons the hex (as a retreat, rout or surrender depending on the situation).

The problem is the published cv on the counters is not the end of the story as:

a) fog of war, if you have low recon on the defender the real cv maybe higher or lower than it appears ... you end up developing a feel for this;
b) allocation of support units .. this come from higher HQ (corps for the Germans, armies for the Soviets) and help in the combat. So for eg, artillery will help disrupt the enemy, engineers help reduce fortifications
c) command matters, not only do good commanders help in the allocation of off-map support units but they directly affect the combat values in the battle
d) disruption matters, disrupted elements don't fight and you can disrupt before combat (a ground attack by aircraft) or in the early phases of a combat (heavier artillery) which can change the odds even as the combat goes ahead
e) the number of elements matter. Thus individually Soviet elements are lower value than the Germans but there are more of them. So a weaker Soviet unit can be quite effective.
f) some terrain has a secondary effect, so armour is particularly weak in swamps
g) all this is subject to luck.

You can use the alt-cv game mode as a help as that factors in command and likely support units into the shown cvs, this makes estimating combat odds a bit less of an exercise in examining chicken livers.

over time you develop a very rough set of rules. With the Soviets (accepting the fow issue), I reckon that at start odds of <1.4-1, I have only limited chance to win (chances are in the realm of pure luck), if I get between 1.5/1.8-1 I reckon to win around 70-80% of my attacks, much over 1.9-1 and I'd only expect to lose due to the luck aspect.

there is an additional complication which is reserve reaction by either side. This may bring in new units than just those you selected, clearly it can completely change the expected odds. Crudely, if you really have to be sure you can win, go in mob handed and backed by masses of airpower and artillery ... and hope your recon was accurate.

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RE: stupid question from a new player - 11/29/2015 9:06:49 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		thank but what do you mean by alt-cv game mode?

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Post #: 3
RE: stupid question from a new player - 11/29/2015 9:55:03 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

thank but what do you mean by alt-cv game mode?


if you look at the variants of the campaign game in the scenario selection screen, you'll see one described as showing the accurate combat values (in particular they will take into account leadership bonuses), so its one option for the campaign. You can convert any scenario to that mode of display but you need to use the game editor first.

I'm not sure it helps that much as you get used to the mental adjustments after a while but it is very informative as to the real impact of leadership. load up the german T1 with that option, and just swap around leaders, see what difference a command chain of the best at corps and army level makes to using average or poor commanders.

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Post #: 4
RE: stupid question from a new player - 11/29/2015 10:15:13 PM   
No idea

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/24/2011
Status: offline 		I am playing the alt cv campaign now and I found something between 2 or 3 to one difference in CV almost always gives me the victory. By the way, being in command range and having a good commander makes a HUGE difference.

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Post #: 5
RE: stupid question from a new player - 11/29/2015 10:30:49 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		ok thank very much.

more clear with that mode


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Post #: 6
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/2/2016 7:55:35 AM   
manofwar

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline 		Help!! How do I keep my armor supplied after turn 9 or 10 playing the road to Leningrad?

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Post #: 7
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/2/2016 8:24:02 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		1 Have your FBD on the most efficient path to Pskov. You can work that out by counting hexes and MPs remembering that conversion in baltic states is faster

2 Keep an eye on MPs from unit to railhead. It's on the tooltip for each hex. More than 20 MPs (NOT hexes) reduces supply

3 Use JU 52s to fly fuel. See latest patch notes for mechanism

4 HQBU will help a lot if your units are eligible (see latest patch notes) and think of pulling them back if the aren't. Putting them on refit will help a little

5 Use your MPs wisely: don't use lots petrol doing something pointless or marginal.

6 Live with it. IRL Mansteien's corps ran out after the first few days

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 8
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/2/2016 1:57:50 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


3 Use JU 52s to fly fuel. See latest patch notes for mechanism




where could we find this patch notes?

thank

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Post #: 9
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/2/2016 2:27:03 PM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		They download with the patch, and find where download is sent.

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 10
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/2/2016 7:27:00 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

estimating combat odds a bit less of an exercise in examining chicken livers.



Lovely.

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Post #: 11
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/10/2016 6:10:22 AM   
valkyrion

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 11/6/2014
Status: offline 		Just picked up the game this week and had a Couple of questions that I have not been able to figure out after going through the Velikie tutorial and reading about 1/3 of the manual so far,(hope its ok to ask here OP):
What are AP used for? I beleive from reading the manual so far that they are used when forming new Corps from stacked units or Assigning new leaders,are there other things they are used for?
Do you directly control building new divisions or are they auto created?(I am used to HOI series production) I have been able to see adding SU to the HQ units so far in the tutorial scenario but I didn't see where I can build outright Infantry division's or brigades other then tank brigades as SU's.
I also did not see anything that showed me the odds before commiting (right clicking or shift right clicking) to combat
Thanks in advance!

< Message edited by Valkyrie_ssl -- 1/10/2016 7:12:13 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/10/2016 7:16:52 AM   
WingedIncubus


Posts: 512
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		APs can also be used to create Fortified Regions, placed for example on a city or chokepoint over a major river.

As the Soviets AP also they are used to manually change the HQs of all those isolated units who are too far away from their respective HQs. When it happens I always strive to assign them to a neighboring Corps HQ to both keep them in supply and available for leader checks. Their command and control is so abysmal at the start, you'll be spending a lot of these as your defensive lines get crashed.

Nothing shows the odds before committing to an assault. You must compare your total Assault CV with your opponent's total Defence CV (so x=y on the counter, x is the Assault and y the Defence), and guesstimate your odds from there taking in account other factors like luck, leaders, hasty or deliberate attack, etc.

< Message edited by Drakken -- 1/10/2016 8:17:34 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/10/2016 11:33:50 AM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		Welcome to forum.

Important difference between SU & Axis, SU can use APs to create combat units, Axis cannot.

Otherwise assign units to HQs, build forts, change leaders, reassign support units, change aircraft, build railheads, etc. same for both sides.

Managing APs quite important once past basics, both sides.

< Message edited by rrbill -- 1/10/2016 12:34:28 PM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 14
RE: stupid question from a new player - 1/10/2016 4:24:20 PM   
valkyrion

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 11/6/2014
Status: offline 		Great thanks for that information guys that helps a lot!

(in reply to swkuh)
Post #: 15
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