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RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/9/2016 9:13:18 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

Alfred's Edition.




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Post #: 61
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/10/2016 12:59:23 PM   
fulcrum28


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great work, thank you so much.

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Post #: 62
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/13/2016 8:53:22 PM   
Korvar


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Alfred,

I also want to express thanks for this effort. As someone who is learning WitP, having an updated, common point of reference will be immensely helpful and will speed learning the game considerably.

I'm eagerly looking forward to its release!

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Post #: 63
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 6:18:34 AM   
Alfred

 

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A quick update plus a small sneak preview and audience feedback.  What more could one want.

Firstly the update.

Things are moving very slowly at the devs end.  Henderson remain very keen but getting Matrixgames into the act is proving somewhat, let us say, problematic.  One result of this is that the project is currently very much me with no dev cross checking.  This is expected to change in the future but no timetable exists.

Revising chapter 6 is proving to be a big exercise.  The revised chapter will bear little resemblance to what was printed with at least 90% altered.

The layout is quite different in the revision.  Basically the revision splits the chapter into 4 segments:

  • everything to do re ships
  • everything to do re task forces
  • everything to do re naval logistical operations at port/beach
  • naval combat

The idea is that by first understanding what each ship is for, what it can do, it is easier to then understand the purpose and capability of the different task force missions.  From task force missions it then becomes logical to see their operation at the logistical level and finally at the combat level.


Secondly, by presenting the chapter in this manner it allows for the chapter to be split into separate chapters.  Currently everything to do with naval units is lumped into chapter 6.  Except that it is also spread out in various other parts of the manual.  For those following the progress of the project, this is an opportunity for you to vote whether you want everything still lumped into a single chapter or would prefer to have 4 separate chapters.

Thirdly, a small sneak preview.  This is how I have altered the current printed section 6.2.16 of the manual.  Personally I think I have improved the explanation considerably but I might be mistaken.  It would be useful if players compared the existing with my revision and provided feedback.

Draft revision
 
6.6 Supply Generated Ships
Ship types which have ship pools (see s.5.1.4.8.1-5.1.4.8.2) mainly enter the game not through the production system but are purchased by spending supply points.  Provided there are ships in the ship pools, the minimum supply cost to purchase each ship is:
[color=#660000 size=3] 





SSX

100 supply points


LCT

60 supply points


PT

50 supply points


MGB

50 supply points


LB (large)

35 supply points


LCM

25 supply points


LB (small)

20 supply points


LCVP

10 supply points
[color=#660000 size=3] 
 If these ships have a tonnage greater than the supply cost shown in the above table, the supply cost increases to match the tonnage.  Thus a PT boat with tonnage of 57 will cost 57 supply points.
[color=#660000 size=3]When purchased, these ships will arrive in an appropriate TF containing up to:





SSX

4 ships


LCT

15 ships


PT

12 ships


MGB

12 ships


LB

15 ships


LCM

15 ships


LCVP

15 ships
[color=#660000 size=3] 
These ships can be purchased either at a suitable port or from a suitable TF as described in s.6.6.1 and s.6.6.2 respectively. 
[color=#660000 size=3] 
6.6.1 Port criteria for the purchase of supply generated ships
Provided there are ships in the pools of the same nationality as the port, supply generated ships can be purchased at a port which is size 1 or greater and which has 10,000 supply points present.  The exception to the nationality test is that American supply generated ships can also be purchased at Australian ports.
The supply cost to purchase these ships is provided in s.6.6.  Assuming there are 12 or more USN PT Boats in the pool, the purchase at an American or Australian port will cost a minimum of 600 supply points and the port supply level will decrease by this amount.
These ships have low endurance and the historical relocation between bases is emulated in the game by the ability to both purchase them from the pools and return them back to the pools at a port.  Ships returned to the pool become available for purchase after a delay (see s.5.1.4.8.1).
Suitable ports have the create buttons active.  If the criteria is not met the create buttons are not present.  To return ships back to the pool, the ships must be disbanded in the port.  A return to the pool button becomes available in both the port information screen (see s.xxx) and on the Ship Information screen of relevant ship types.
[color=#660000 size=3] 
6.6.2 Task Force criteria for the purchase of supply generated ships
[color=#660000 size=3]The criteria for the purchase of supply generated ships from a TF are much more extensive than those for a port.
Only Fast Transport, Transport, Cargo, Air Transport, Amphibious, Tanker, Replenishment and Support [NEED TO CHECK IF BARGE, LANDING CRAFT ETC DO ALSO] TFs may meet the criteria to be a source for the purchase of supply generated ships.  The TF Information Screen (see s.xxx) of these TFs will have the activate buttons (=create buttons on the base information screen) available if the following criteria are met:
·        The TF must have loaded supply at the National Base of the TF nationality.  The nationality of a TF is determined by the nationality of the flagship
·        The TF is docked at an on map base (not an off map base) which is not the National Base of the TF
·        The TF must contain at least one ship with a minimum cargo hold capacity of 1,000
·        At least 50 supply points must be loaded in the 1,000 minimum cargo capacity hold
·        The pools contain ships of the same nationality
If the criteria are met, clicking on the activate buttons purchases the ships which then appear at the on map base.  The purchase cost is subtracted from the supply points carried by the TF.
[color=#660000 size=3]TFs which do not meet the above criteria can instead unload sufficient supply points at the base until the base itself meets the criteria listed in s.6.6.1.


Many of the tables are being reworked and broken down into smaller tables.  An example of the task is that for the natural and cross loading explanations I spent a couple of days drafting and redrafting and it still didn't flow as I wanted.  And then I came upon the idea of using the term "raw" which meant I could redo the redraft to flow how I wanted it to.

Alfred

Edit: the formatting has not transferred over properly. The draft has a couple of tables which have not come out well above.

< Message edited by Alfred -- 2/26/2016 6:20:20 AM >

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Post #: 64
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 6:40:35 AM   
Yaab


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Great stuff!

One caveat.

I would add the information about the Allied barge pool's activation in January 1943. It was very frustrating to be able to create barges as Japan from the start while the Allied's barge button was greyed out all the time.

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Post #: 65
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 12:20:49 PM   
btd64


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Great work Alfred. However one other thing;
I have been able to purchase allied PT's and MGB's in smaller quantities when the pools had less than 12....GP

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Post #: 66
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 12:47:35 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Great work Alfred. However one other thing;
I have been able to purchase allied PT's and MGB's in smaller quantities when the pools had less than 12....GP


Which is why it already says

"When purchased, these ships will arrive in an appropriate TF containing up to:"

Alfred

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Post #: 67
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 12:50:01 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Great stuff!

One caveat.

I would add the information about the Allied barge pool's activation in January 1943. It was very frustrating to be able to create barges as Japan from the start while the Allied's barge button was greyed out all the time.


Not appropriate to be said as it depends on the scenario designer. The reader has already been drawn to an earlier cross reference of how to see what is in the pool.

Alfred

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Post #: 68
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 2:08:25 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Assuming there are 12 or more USN PT Boats in the pool, the purchase at an American or Australian port will cost a minimum of 600 supply points and the port supply level will decrease by this amount.


Alfred,
The above line reads to first time readers as; You need a minimum of 12 PT's in the pool to purchase.

How about changing to something that says the same as above but adding that your PT's TF size may vary depending on the number of PT's etc in the pools. But 12 is the max you can purchase AT ONE TIME for ONE TF. Multi TF's of 12 can be purchased at one port if pool numbers and supply are available.

Now you are asking for input, So here is mine.

Now it is early here and I didn't sleep well last night so don't take this the wrong way. Try to answer questions with a friendly word. Your answer to me was not in a friendly tone. Except for the smiley face. I respect your work and support to this game, But we all need to open our minds and answer questions in a manner that doesn't cause new or veteran players to feel that they made a mistake just posting their question. I always read new stuff like i'm new to the game. Comprehension of written words is not easy for all. I always write stuff as easy as possible for anyone to understand as well. Well my two cents. By the way, did you get my last two emails to you?....GP




< Message edited by General Patton -- 2/26/2016 2:12:22 PM >


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Post #: 69
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 2:55:57 PM   
blueatoll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Assuming there are 12 or more USN PT Boats in the pool, the purchase at an American or Australian port will cost a minimum of 600 supply points and the port supply level will decrease by this amount.


My re-write (as someone who has written technical manuals for 26 years).

For example, if there are at least 12 USN PT Boats available in the pool, creating PT Boats at an American or Australian port will minimally cost 600 supply points and 12 PT Boats will be created. The total supply cost will be deducted from the current Port Supply Level.

Note: Creating PT Boats larger than 50 tons will further reduce Port Supply Level by 1 supply point per ton for each PT Boat created over 50 tons.



< Message edited by blueatoll -- 2/26/2016 2:56:34 PM >

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Post #: 70
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 4:53:38 PM   
bobdina

 

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I don't take it like that at all. I see no problem with the way Alfred has it worded.

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Post #: 71
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 2/26/2016 5:49:57 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobdina

I don't take it like that at all. I see no problem with the way Alfred has it worded.


I would change it to something like "For example" instead of "Assuming there are 12 or more", because that does imply that you have to have 12 or more PTs in the pool to create them - even if it doesn't say that farther up.

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Post #: 72
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 3/24/2016 6:29:43 PM   
Macclan5


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Greetings Sir - Alfred.

I realize I a very comparative newbie but I do have 1 minor suggestion implemented across two points.

Simply a "picture" is worth a thousand words ~ or so goes the old adage.

1) Ship withdrawls.

I would strongly recommend a "bitmap picture" image of the exact location of that "darned little button while disbanded in port" in the next iteration of any manual.

I cannot recall one and I have read the manual at length. This question does seem to regularly re-occur among new players.

2) Air Squadron Disband verse Withdrawl decision tree.

Again a persistent question among new players. A picture decision tree would likely be immensely helpful.

I have actively studied the in game and manual effects. I think I have reasonably mastered it.

Never the less I was surprised that when withdrawing a squadron in some instances I can opt out of the Points instant gratification in favor of having units and pilots return to the pool - a much more valuable option to me (PDU Off player).

I fully agree that it is well described in game... but a picture decision tree would potentially be posted in the FAQ and liberate thousands of forum data lines :)

Warm regards in this endeavor.

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Post #: 73
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 3/24/2016 6:41:41 PM   
Alfred

 

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The number of screenshots in the draft chapters has increased exponentially.  A major factor in the "blow out" in size and time.

However this is all still subject to the exact requirements of the publisher, aka Matrixgames.

Alfred

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Post #: 74
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 3/25/2016 5:26:21 AM   
Dili

 

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Can't you release an electronic version with all?

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Post #: 75
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 4/29/2016 8:32:15 PM   
drw61


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Alfred,
Was curious how this is going? It is a huge undertaking and I really appreciate you doing this.

Thanks Daryl

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Post #: 76
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 7/24/2016 7:03:05 PM   
floyd17

 

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Thanks for the great work. Is there any update? Thanks

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Post #: 77
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 9/10/2016 6:29:25 AM   
Yaab


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Any updates?

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Post #: 78
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/4/2016 5:07:17 PM   
Chuske


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Hoping this hasn't been shelved....

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Post #: 79
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/4/2016 6:39:22 PM   
BBfanboy


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Amen! I need all the guidance I can get, organized a little better than the current manual + forum searches.

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Post #: 80
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/6/2016 7:58:12 AM   
pavel01

 

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May I ask a question about the Manual ?

I very recently purchased War in the Pacific, Admiral's Edition taking advantage of the currently discounted price and went for the BOXED version which added some 20 dollars to the final price (about 15 for the Boxed version and about 5 or 6 for the Shipping).

Now, can I expect to receive the UPDATED Manual or will I receive a Manual that will not be much reliable in its content if at all ?

Because, the reason for me to spend the extra money was precisely to have a CURRENT, updated paper Manual with it.....

After reading this thread now I feel like I wasted that extra money in case the paper Manual which I will receive will be not current.

Can anyone please let me know if I wasted my money on an outdated paper manual and how I can get an UPDATED paper manual ?

Thanks !!

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Post #: 81
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/6/2016 9:06:07 AM   
chemkid

 

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.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 10:47:58 AM >

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Post #: 82
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/6/2016 12:48:14 PM   
pavel01

 

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Absolutely the Forum is a huge help in getting to learn the game, no doubt.

Yet, how do I find out "what" in the paper Manual which comes with the Boxed Version will still be current and what outdated ?

Do I need to check out all of the patches notes from when the Manual was printed ?

Or is there like a "summary" that already exists which tells "what" should not be relied upon from the paper Manual ?

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Post #: 83
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/6/2016 1:03:16 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

Absolutely the Forum is a huge help in getting to learn the game, no doubt.

Yet, how do I find out "what" in the paper Manual which comes with the Boxed Version will still be current and what outdated ?

Do I need to check out all of the patches notes from when the Manual was printed ?

Or is there like a "summary" that already exists which tells "what" should not be relied upon from the paper Manual ?


You do need to read all of the patch notes, especially the early, very large ones. Significant game mechanics were altered. The beta patch notes are a lot shorter, but some of those changes were pretty important too.

There's no summary. The patch notes are the summary.

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RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/6/2016 6:29:36 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

Absolutely the Forum is a huge help in getting to learn the game, no doubt.

Yet, how do I find out "what" in the paper Manual which comes with the Boxed Version will still be current and what outdated ?

Do I need to check out all of the patches notes from when the Manual was printed ?

Or is there like a "summary" that already exists which tells "what" should not be relied upon from the paper Manual ?

The new manual does not exist yet - it is still under development - last I heard. Part of the goal was to reformat the manual to make it easier to find things, but IME everyone has differing ideas about what is the best way to organize things so it may still be in discussion of details.

Also note that you have a PDF copy of the manual with the game install. You can access it by using the "Game Menu" that pops up from Autorun.exe (the shortcut the game puts on your desktop when you install it).

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Post #: 85
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/7/2016 9:26:14 AM   
pavel01

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

Absolutely the Forum is a huge help in getting to learn the game, no doubt.

Yet, how do I find out "what" in the paper Manual which comes with the Boxed Version will still be current and what outdated ?

Do I need to check out all of the patches notes from when the Manual was printed ?

Or is there like a "summary" that already exists which tells "what" should not be relied upon from the paper Manual ?

The new manual does not exist yet - it is still under development - last I heard. Part of the goal was to reformat the manual to make it easier to find things, but IME everyone has differing ideas about what is the best way to organize things so it may still be in discussion of details.

Also note that you have a PDF copy of the manual with the game install. You can access it by using the "Game Menu" that pops up from Autorun.exe (the shortcut the game puts on your desktop when you install it).


That PDF copy of the Manual that comes with the game install, though, is like the paper Manual, right ? If so, it does not include all of the subsequent patches notes...

What patches "README" files should I look at in order to find out what has changed in the game's mechanics since the Manual was printed (or the PDF created....) ?

For a brand new player like me, War in the Pacific, Admiral's Edition is already an intimidating game because of its complexity.

Trying to get knowledged about its complex mechanics reading an outdated Manual does not help me much, it only adds to the confusion.....

Thanks !



< Message edited by pavel01 -- 12/7/2016 9:27:52 AM >

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Post #: 86
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/7/2016 10:54:48 AM   
chemkid

 

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.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 10:47:52 AM >

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Post #: 87
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/7/2016 10:55:32 AM   
RogerJNeilson


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I am not sure this is the right game for you if you want to master it then play. I have been playing it since it was released, and previously played WITP (a simpler version). I have never read the manual, though I have at times searched for specific bits of information in it. I regularly read the forum.

I have now 7 years on this game and still learn new things every move I make. It is frankly part of the enjoyment of the game.

Either put it away or else just fire up a shorter scenario and start to play it, save it frequently and that way you can go back and see why something happened and how better to do it. If you hit a specific issue get on here and ask a specific question - we will be very helpful indeed - especially if you give plenty of information about the context and also a screenshot.

Roger

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Post #: 88
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 12/7/2016 12:47:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I am not sure this is the right game for you if you want to master it then play. I have been playing it since it was released, and previously played WITP (a simpler version). I have never read the manual, though I have at times searched for specific bits of information in it. I regularly read the forum.

I have now 7 years on this game and still learn new things every move I make. It is frankly part of the enjoyment of the game.

Either put it away or else just fire up a shorter scenario and start to play it, save it frequently and that way you can go back and see why something happened and how better to do it. If you hit a specific issue get on here and ask a specific question - we will be very helpful indeed - especially if you give plenty of information about the context and also a screenshot.

Roger


I wouldn't recommend any new player not read the manual. It worked for you, but it won't for the vast majority. Despite its age, the manual is still over 90% relevant. It has screenshots that answer many of the common newbie questions if they would only look at them. And after the manual they should read the patch notes and then open the Manuals sub-folder and read the PDFs there, especially the Pilot Addendum.

Every time Matrix has a sale there is a new crop of newbies asking the same questions, most of which are answered in the manual. This forum is a rarity on the Internet these days, full of veterans who have a lot of patience and seemingly infinite knowledge. But there are limits. The forum is glad to answer a question or three. But coming in and saying "Somebody explain the production system to me" is just lazy. And rude in that it presumes on others' time. Especially rude is coming in with no fact base and laying about with the opinion sword on what "ought" to be done with this or that, or dumping on the design when one knows zero about the design. Those players usually last a few weeks and disappear, leaving their threads behind them.

It's a tough game to learn. It isn't modern in that the game itself doesn't contain the manual. But if they stick with it a newbie can know they can play the most complex consumer wargame ever designed.

But hey, newbies--do a little work, will ya?

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/7/2016 12:54:08 PM >


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Post #: 89
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision Part Two - 1/17/2017 4:16:07 PM   
Journier

 

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would buy, asap. Any word on the Alfred Edition manual?

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