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New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 4:47:20 AM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry for the delay, but the next installment in my The War That Never Was series is here.

This takes place in the central Mediterranean and is very air-power intensive. Lots of aircraft and lots of targets.

Would love to get any feedback and bug reports.

Thanks!

Yokes

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Yokes -- 12/30/2015 6:27:14 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 2:06:46 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		OK, will use this one as an excuse to take a break from building my own

Will let you know how it goes.

Tx

B

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 2
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 2:23:18 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		It looks like Libyan SAMs are attacking their a/c at the start of the game.

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 3
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 2:46:21 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

It looks like Libyan SAMs are attacking their a/c at the start of the game.


Weird. I put the exclusion zone on a side that is allied with the aircraft, yet the early warning side shows them as hostile. An exclusion zone won't apply to known friendly aircraft, right?

I'll have to figure out how to fix it...

Yokes

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 4
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 3:50:06 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		I'm seeing several Libyan-Libyan Neutral stances which could then be triggered to Hostile by your exclusion zone...

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 5
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 4:20:59 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		Made my own simple OOB variation - added an EP-3E at Sigonella and a detachment of 6 RF-4Cs at Comiso (staggered readiness from 3 to 24 hrs).

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 6
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 4:42:51 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Getting similar red-on-red engagment. See clip.

EP-3 and RF-4 would be a nice add. Pluse a couple NATO AWACs flying out of Ancona in northern Italy




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< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 12/30/2015 5:43:06 PM >

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 7
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 4:47:49 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Good idea. I thought about the EP-3, but left it out since the book did too. But I think you are right and will add them.

The neutral stances are so the IADS works correctly. The EW side feeds info to the CMD side, which feeds data to the AD side. That way if the air defense HQ bunker gets killed I cut off the flow of info from the EW to AD and the SAM sites have to turn their radars on.

I REALLY want to use an exclusion zone so that the SAMs shoot at decoys. Maybe if I set the WRA to shoot at unknowns...

Thanks for checking it out guys!

Yokes

Edit: updated version in the original message.

< Message edited by Yokes -- 12/30/2015 6:02:57 PM >

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 8
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 5:10:15 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		Definitely a situation involving the relationships. When all OPFOR set to Friendly, no red-on-red engagements.

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 9
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 6:04:16 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Playing 2nd posting. No Red-on-red seen. The 'Libyans turn Hostile' even has already fired 11 min into the game. Not sure if that's too early or not.

B

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 10
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 7:21:41 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		Ran into a Soviet Sub that was indicated as Neutral on classification. Since we're in world-wide ops against the USSR, I reclassified as Hostile. (this is Build 1.0, BTW, haven't loaded the new scen)

< Message edited by Primarchx -- 12/30/2015 8:39:08 PM >

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 11
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/30/2015 8:01:44 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		OK, so the message said that Libya is now hostile, but the posture of the various bits remains confused. If you look at the clip, the airbases are hostile, the SAMs are unfriendly and the C2 bunker is friendly.

The airbases are single unit airfields as well, hard to take apart with Offensive counter air.


B




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 12
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/31/2015 2:13:45 AM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Gunner and Primarchx,

Thanks for catching those! I ran into them myself while playing.

It always amazes me how many little "issues" I end up fixing before a scenario is truly finished.

Yokes

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 13
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/31/2015 12:43:47 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		I think you maybe need to tweak the events so all 4 sides become hostile at the same time (Libya, EW, AD, Comd) then use Lua to trigger the various levels of sensor activity.

I am also struggling with how to do this. One trick I used but haven't received feedback yet is:

1) one radar starts active remainder silent
2) when that radar is destroyed, 2nd one comes on along with some EW jammers (and all mobile SAMs are not detected at start)
3) when 2nd radar gets killed a 3rd one pops on as well as some SAMs (not all just some depth ones)
4) when the 3rd radar dies or the depth SAM gets hit, everything lights up - some of it hopefully behind the players lead AC

So in this case I think you can achieve the same sort of thing just triggering the AD side to lite up when the Comd bunker is killed or something.

Like I said, still struggling with how to set this up properly.

In this scenario you've got the SAMs nicely layered with your CAP, so the player has to dance with SAMs to kill the CAP and vice versa.

I pooched my planning and my MLADs & Jammers are way out of positon so am in recovery mode at the moment and keeping everything tanked up until I can poke the hornets’ nest again.

Good fun

B

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 14
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/31/2015 2:58:31 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Gunner,

Thanks for the feedback. It should be set up that if you kill the bunker the SAMs lose all info from the EW radars and then turn on their own. That makes them vulnerable to HARMS. I haven't tested it yet since I am still working on killing the bunker. Tough bugger...

I was thinking that the CAP would stay over land and let the SAMs defend over water. It's been interesting playing the fighter/SAM dance.

Thanks for giving it a try!

Yokes

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 15
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/31/2015 6:32:11 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		OK,
I need to reset, pooched my first strike so bad that the Italian PM is going to call me in for a chat!

Noticed a couple things:

-not every SAM destroyed gave a victory point
-no victory points for AC lost. Reasonable for the Libyans perhaps but not so much for NATO, the 3xF-14 & 1 F-16 were bad enough but when it ticked over a dozen of those little Gina's I had to throw in the towel - lots of lessons learned on those little guys
-The TLADs didn't attract any missiles, disappointing

Would be nice to have all the TGs pointing in the right direction at start but that's not a biggie

Going to go for few wobbly-pops tonight. Will take another try tomorrow or the next day. If you going to release a new version, let me know and I'll wait for that one.

Good game, thanks

B

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 16
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 12/31/2015 7:29:04 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
-not every SAM destroyed gave a victory point


I noticed that too. Not sure what is wrong. The script is set up correctly. I don't think it's a game-breaker.

quote:


-no victory points for AC lost. Reasonable for the Libyans perhaps but not so much for NATO, the 3xF-14 & 1 F-16 were bad enough but when it ticked over a dozen of those little Gina's I had to throw in the towel - lots of lessons learned on those little guys


I was thinking about that. Specifically setting a limit to the number of aircraft that can be lost before you lose. I'm not sure...

quote:


-The TLADs didn't attract any missiles, disappointing


That should be fixed in the current version. Let me know if it isn't. (It was caused by the exclusion zone that was also causing the red-on-red earlier.)

quote:


Going to go for few wobbly-pops tonight. Will take another try tomorrow or the next day. If you going to release a new version, let me know and I'll wait for that one.


Have fun, and be safe!



(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 17
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/1/2016 2:42:55 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Fired up latest version. Much cleaner on the hostility side.

My Kingdome for some AMRAAMs! A couple years too early I guess. F104 vs MiG-21: 3 to 1 for the bad guys!!! Trying to use the Italians for something but it's not going well!

My setup is also much more coherent, will clean up the west in the area of the future landing, than clean up the Misratah area and take Tripoli from the rear. By then the SA-5's will be ammo expended I think (may want to look at the WRA for them, they are happily firing away with a 1-5% hit chance, not sure it makes a difference as they are fairly obsolete by this date), although a lucky SA-5 rolled a 1 on an RC-4!

Want to get deeper into this one, your briefings seem to indicate other forces being involved - curious.

B

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 18
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/1/2016 3:58:31 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Gunner,

Yeah, whenever I play these cold war era scenarios I immediately want to play a modern one with AMRAAMs.

I was successful using all the HARM launchers and decoys to take down the radars of the nasty SAMs (SA-5, SA-10, SA-12) and only used the non-US forces after that. I also just accepted that some of those aircraft (F-104s, anything French) were just going to get hammered. The F-104s were actually really handy at getting the Libyans to waste SAMs on 1% shots.

The "extra forces" is really a lead-in to the follow-on scenario, which I am working on now. This one is really just about taking down the SAMs and getting the amphibs in position.

Yokes

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 19
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/1/2016 8:43:31 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Quite a few surprises down near Zuwara nice

Need to change neutrals to not collective responsibility. One got some spash damage when I was digging out a baddie and they all went hostile on me. Fixed in editor. Thought I found a job for the little Gina's but even the 250lb bombs are a problem, cannon all the way I guess.

All else going well.

B

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 20
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/1/2016 9:12:55 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Quite a few surprises down near Zuwara nice

Need to change neutrals to not collective responsibility. One got some spash damage when I was digging out a baddie and they all went hostile on me. Fixed in editor. Thought I found a job for the little Gina's but even the 250lb bombs are a problem, cannon all the way I guess.

All else going well.

B


I ran into those, too. OUCH! Hadn't lost anything to that point... :(

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 21
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/2/2016 8:04:35 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		OK, 9 hours in and most of my SEAD work here is done . Took too many casualties but everything west of Misratah including Tripoli is cleaned up and ready for the Amphib arrival. I need to put it on hold for a bit and fix one of my scenarios unfortunately. Good fun, a couple points:

-no points for Subs sunk
-I don't think you will need the 2nd Sqn of F-16s
-Although the F-104's saved my bacon once, (some tankers were unmasked when the new CAP had not arrived from the Kennedy in time and they came to the rescue and knocked down 2xMiG 23s) I would change out all of them and the Gina's for a single squadron of Tornado IDS (18/Sqn I think) with a flight of ECRs supporting them
-Did my last run without and AWACs (which I had added in earlier ones), makes a big difference. The EP-3 does a good job but there are still a few surprises. So you may want to keep it the way you have it, just mention in the brief what the NATO AWACs flight is doing (maybe Turkey, maybe casualties)

Thanks for this one.

B

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 22
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/3/2016 8:23:15 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Gunner,

Thanks for checking it out! I appreciate the time you take out of making your own excellent scenarios.
The units are based on what was in the book, at least where the book was explicit. In my head I explain the lack of AWACs as them all being committed to Germany. I found that the Hawkeyes were good enough, myself.

The next scenario is pretty much ready. I hope you give it a look.

Thanks!

Yokes

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 23
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/6/2016 10:06:29 PM   
Dannyp19

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Hi Yokes

Just finished and scored a Triumph with 24 H's to go.

I just used swarm tactics and sent all my AC's on a sead, land, and aaw patrol concentrated around Tripoli and Zuwara. Set everybody (except aaw) to engage opportunity targets, and watched the fireworks!

It took 2 waves to wipe out the whole iads, air threat, and the few other targets I found in that area. My losses were horrible but it got the job done. I considered everyone mission expendable...those poor Starfighters!


Anyway, making NATO losses count in scoring would be advisable (never read the book so dont know if extreme losses was acceptable)

The TALD's never did help me also. A few biologics might help the ASW side.

Thanks it was a fun time!

SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
10x A-6E Intruder
10x AV-8B Harrier II [Day-Only]
2x F/A-18A Hornet
27x F-104G Starfighter
2x F-14A Tomcat
8x F-16C Blk 30 Falcon
15x G.91Y Gina
1x RF-4C Phantom II
9x Super Etendard


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
46x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]
72x 25mm GAU-12/U Burst [60 rnds]
192x 30mm DEFA 552 x 2 Burst [50 rnds]
40x ADM-141A TALD [Active RF]
32x AGM-62B Walleye II ER/DL
18x AGM-65D Maverick IR
40x AGM-65F Maverick IR
122x AGM-88A HARM
28x AIM-54A Phoenix
180x AIM-7M Sparrow III
20x AIM-9F Sidewinder
17x AIM-9M Sidewinder
487x AN/SSQ-53B DIFAR
380x AN/SSQ-62B DICASS
12x CBU-59/B APAM [717 x BLU-77/B Dual-Purpose Bomblets]
142x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
31x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
152x HYDRA 70mm Rocket
2x Mk20 Rockeye II CB [247 x Mk118 Dual Purpose Bomblets]
5x Mk46 NEARTIP Mod 5
48x Mk81 250lb LDGP
68x Mk82 500lb LDGP
2x RGM-109C Tomahawk Blk II TLAM-C
51x RIM-67C SM-2ER Blk II
216x SNEB 68mm Rocket
16x T.200 400kg GPB
4x T.25 250kg GPB
4x UGM-109C Tomahawk Blk II TLAM



SIDE: Libya
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
3x 205 Al Katum [Pr.205ER Osa II]
2x Commercial Fishing Boat [23m]
24x MiG-21bis Fishbed L
36x MiG-23MF Flogger B
25x MiG-25P Foxbat A
2x S 311 Al Badr [PL-641 Foxtrot]
4x SSC-3 Styx TELAR [3P51]
77x Su-22M-2K Fitter H


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
23x 23mm Gsh-23L Burst [40 rnds]
19x 30mm NR-30 x 2 Burst [20 rnds]
5x AA-2a Atoll [R-3S]
22x AA-6 Acrid A [R-40R, SARH]
8x AA-6 Acrid B [R-40T, IR]
39x AA-7 Apex A [R-23R, SARH]
40x AA-8 Aphid [R-60T]
27x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
10x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
18x SAET-60M WH



SIDE: Libya AD
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
6x 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka
6x 23mm ZU-23-2
1x Building (Odd Pair HF [PRV-13])
2x Building (Square Pair [5N62])
1x Building (Tall King C [P-14])
16x SA-10a Grumble [5P85T] TEL
8x SA-11 Gadfly [9A38] TELAR
4x SA-11 Gadfly [9A39] LLV
6x SA-12a Gladiator [9A83] TELAR
3x SA-12a Gladiator [9A84] LLV
66x SA-2d Guideline Mod 2 Single Rail
41x SA-3b Goa Quad Rail
12x SA-5c Gammon Single Rail
66x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS
4x SA-8a Gecko [9A33A] TELAR
4x SA-8b Gecko Mod-0 [9A33BM2] TELAR
2x Vehicle (Clam Shell [5N66])
11x Vehicle (Fan Song E [SNR-75M3])
2x Vehicle (Flap Lid A [5N63])
11x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19])
1x Vehicle (Grill Pan [9S32-1])
11x Vehicle (Low Blow [SNR-125])
11x Vehicle (Spoon Rest C [P-12])


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
257x 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka Burst [50 rnds]
96x SA-10a Grumble [5V55KD]
106x SA-11 Gadfly [9M38]
36x SA-12a Gladiator [9M83]
84x SA-2d Guideline Mod 2 [S-75 Volga, 20D / V-755]
192x SA-3b Goa [5V27, V-601P]
55x SA-5c Gammon [5V28M5]
29x SA-7a Grail [9M32]
52x SA-8a Gecko [9M33]
28x SA-8b Gecko Mod-0 [9M33M2]



SIDE: Libya EW
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Radar (Bar Lock A [P-37])
8x Radar (Spoon Rest D [P-18])
2x Radar (Tall King A [P-14])



SIDE: Neutrals
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Commercial Tanker - Large Range 2 [150,000t DWT]






SIDE: Libya CMD
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Bunker (Large C3M)




SIDE: USSR
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x PL-613V Whiskey V
1x PL-641B Tango [Som]
1x PLA-705K Alfa [Lira]





(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 24
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/7/2016 1:41:01 AM   
Excroat3

 

Posts: 436
Joined: 1/24/2015
Status: offline 		IIRC, Book losses totaled ~5 G-91s, and a couple of F/A-18s. Slightly less than what you lost, but I thing that your losses are somewhat more realistic than the book's.

(in reply to Dannyp19)
Post #: 25
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/7/2016 6:15:40 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannyp19
SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
10x A-6E Intruder
10x AV-8B Harrier II [Day-Only]
2x F/A-18A Hornet
27x F-104G Starfighter
2x F-14A Tomcat
8x F-16C Blk 30 Falcon
15x G.91Y Gina
1x RF-4C Phantom II
9x Super Etendard




I mean...



How did you...



I am dumbfounded!

quote:


Anyway, making NATO losses count in scoring would be advisable (never read the book so dont know if extreme losses was acceptable)


Yeah, you convinced me!

I'm glad you had fun! That's always the goal.

Yokes

(in reply to Dannyp19)
Post #: 26
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/9/2016 10:37:43 PM   
AndrewJ

 

Posts: 2318
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline 		Boy, sure is crowded in here compared to the empty Arctic waters up around Iceland!

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 27
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/11/2016 3:34:38 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Boy, sure is crowded in here compared to the empty Arctic waters up around Iceland!


Ha!

I take that is a request to get to work on the northern theater again?

I will get back to it soon, but I am currently working on a Black Sea and Turkey scenario. Lots of scripting so it is off to a slow start.

I will get back to the Norwegian theater after that.

Yokes

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 28
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/11/2016 9:08:41 PM   
AndrewJ

 

Posts: 2318
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline 		I'd just finished one of Gunner98's scenarios up there, and the contrast was striking!


I'm a few hours into yours, and this message has popped up a couple of times.



I've not looked under the hood yet, but maybe it's some sort of Lua-ness not quite behaving right?

(in reply to Yokes)
Post #: 29
RE: New Scenario: Crossing The Line of Death - 1/11/2016 9:54:32 PM   
Yokes

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

I'd just finished one of Gunner98's scenarios up there, and the contrast was striking!



Out of curiosity, in what way?

I am amazed by Gunner's scenarios and how quickly he gets them done. He makes me look bad.

quote:



I'm a few hours into yours, and this message has popped up a couple of times.

SNIP

I've not looked under the hood yet, but maybe it's some sort of Lua-ness not quite behaving right?


Which scenario?

I recently updated all the "War That Never Was" scenarios to the latest database and went through them to remove any events related to destroying runways, since that behavior was changed since I originally made them. But that doesn't seem like the issue from the message.

By the way, I am planning on putting all the TWTNW scenarios into a campaign. You may want to wait on those older scenarios until I get the campaign finished.

Yokes

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 30
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