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RE: Begging - 1/8/2016 3:48:28 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner
And, just because it was un-bundled at one time is not a reason to un-bundle it now.


I'm still trying to understand what exactly you're asking for...if you want to keep playing the bundled version you can, right? If you don't want the improvements in the new, unbundled version you don't have to buy it...

So what are you asking for exactly?

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 31
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 6:25:05 AM   
osiris_slith

 

Posts: 240
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline 		Hi

I totally agree with matrix on splitting the games. They need to make money with these titles and I don't blame them. The amount of work that needs to be done plus with a full time job on top of it is a energy draining blood sucking beast labour of love. As fans of these games we had it very good...access to 3 titles with nearly 500 scenarios for not very much. As fans we need to support this so that we don't end up with having to pay for the OOB database as a separate feature and I do not support any idea where we have to pay for features as extra.

So if matrix games wants $100.$150 from me for 3 titles, 500 scenarios, 10-15 LCGS plus new graphics and new engine...they certainly have me by the balls and my wallet. I have no problem paying..it would be a privilege to do so because the quality of these titles simply cannot be beat

< Message edited by osiris -- 1/9/2016 7:26:20 AM >

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 32
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 6:35:59 AM   
osiris_slith

 

Posts: 240
Joined: 1/5/2007
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u really need to calm down..do this in your head

Up wake up at 6am get ready for work...
u work 9-5
then u come home..
and from 6pm to 1-2am in the morning your working on maps, researching battle information, creating oobs, testing scenarios..

6 days a week...and that's what I do for free!!!!

they need to unbundle so that the development team can get paid...

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 33
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 12:38:33 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osiris


u really need to calm down..do this in your head

Up wake up at 6am get ready for work...
u work 9-5
then u come home..
and from 6pm to 1-2am in the morning your working on maps, researching battle information, creating oobs, testing scenarios..

6 days a week...and that's what I do for free!!!!

they need to unbundle so that the development team can get paid...


You need to leave the development team and stick to real life. I'm not going to boo hoo for you over something you volunteer to do.

Especially when you now say you want to be paid for doing something that is ruining, and going to further erode, the game?

Please stop before you make a further fool of yourself.

RR


_____________________________

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― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to osiris_slith)
Post #: 34
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 12:43:25 PM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		He's not on the devel team, Ed.

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(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 35
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 12:44:47 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osiris

Hi

I totally agree with matrix on splitting the games. They need to make money with these titles and I don't blame them. The amount of work that needs to be done plus with a full time job on top of it is a energy draining blood sucking beast labour of love. As fans of these games we had it very good...access to 3 titles with nearly 500 scenarios for not very much. As fans we need to support this so that we don't end up with having to pay for the OOB database as a separate feature and I do not support any idea where we have to pay for features as extra.

So if matrix games wants $100.$150 from me for 3 titles, 500 scenarios, 10-15 LCGS plus new graphics and new engine...they certainly have me by the balls and my wallet. I have no problem paying..it would be a privilege to do so because the quality of these titles simply cannot be beat


My whole reason for pushing back against what is being done is displayed above in a nutshell.

If you look at ME, their crown jewel, it proved to have all the bugs and glitches that simple play testing would have discovered (if done by others who are not yes men).

He speaks of quality?
Look at the lopsided scenarios that had to be remade due to one, imbalance when they said that they were head to head, and two, even after remake they still are almost unplayable.

Some would say you need to understand how to make balanced scenarios for H2H before stating something is quality.

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to osiris_slith)
Post #: 36
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 12:46:44 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warhorse

He's not on the devel team, Ed.


Then he needs to shut up and not imply that he is?
IMO he makes bad scenarios too!

When a labor of love becomes a grab for money it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Warhorse)
Post #: 37
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 12:53:47 PM   
MrRoadrunner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner
And, just because it was un-bundled at one time is not a reason to un-bundle it now.


I'm still trying to understand what exactly you're asking for...if you want to keep playing the bundled version you can, right? If you don't want the improvements in the new, unbundled version you don't have to buy it...

So what are you asking for exactly?


Here is what am asking for:

For them to leave the Campaign Series alone. Leave it til last. Make all the other "niche" games they wish. Just do not ruin something that has been around for so long as separate, and now bundled, so that they can simply say "we did something".
Cut their teeth, make their bones, on something they create instead of ruining something they did not.

And, which came out first EF or WF? If you know and/or do your research you will find out the reasons why.
Hint, which came out first Panzer Leader or Panzer Blitz? Squad Leader packs for East Front or West Front?

When they un-bundle what are they going to do first?
Does it make smart business sense? What would the Matrix business people think, if they knew?

RR

_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 38
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 1:51:51 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		RR, thanks for your explanation, but I still don't understand why you consider the revamped series to be "ruining" the Campaign Series...what is it about it that you find so problematic?

Also, I still don't understand why you're so excited about this--if you like the current series surely you can keep playing it?

Personally I can't enjoy the current series because I can't really see the units on the screen due to screen resolution issues...

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 39
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 2:56:47 PM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Competitive H2H PBEM ladders such as the Blitz are a bit special as several players there have said they prefer play balance over historical accuracy. With Arab-Israel wars, many of the battles were lopsided and balancing them for H2H can be a challenge with some of them. There's a few Tournament What-If scenarios included for the purpose too.

As games get recorded there, the Scenario Database ratings can help to choose the most balanced per outcome scenarios for H2H purposes. There's some 50 games recorded there, with some very good ratings and some not so good at the other end too. This is the case with other titles too, but CS Middle East does not have that rich history yet, while CS Ladder for WW II titles at the Blitz includes results from Talonsoft versions on.





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(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 40
RE: Begging - 1/9/2016 3:57:44 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner
Here is what am asking for:

For them to leave the Campaign Series alone. Leave it til last. Make all the other "niche" games they wish. Just do not ruin something that has been around for so long as separate, and now bundled, so that they can simply say "we did something".
Cut their teeth, make their bones, on something they create instead of ruining something they did not.

And, which came out first EF or WF? If you know and/or do your research you will find out the reasons why.
Hint, which came out first Panzer Leader or Panzer Blitz? Squad Leader packs for East Front or West Front?

When they un-bundle what are they going to do first?
Does it make smart business sense? What would the Matrix business people think, if they knew?

RR


So just continue to play the original EF & WF or abandon the Campaign Series altogether...


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(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 41
RE: Begging - 1/13/2016 2:32:43 PM   
Otto von Blotto


Posts: 273
Joined: 7/18/2008
Status: offline 		Hardly a helpful comment but one that I'm sure has been playing on Ed's mind I know I have had thoughts in that direction myself since I heard the news about redoing the core games.

It is something some of us will have to decide what to do going forwards, I for one would be very wary of EF.3 or WF.3 to me if the changes are big enough to warrant a new game release it doesn't bode well that it will still be the game I've played for nearly 20 years.

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Post #: 42
RE: Begging - 1/15/2016 8:24:29 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
quote:


So just continue to play the original EF & WF or abandon the Campaign Series altogether...



Gents:

At the end of the day... that's basically what players need to decide.

I've played CS for close to 20 years myself.

But following a series of technical issues with the game platform and Windows 10, I stopped playing CS. I'm not interested in modern combat - so neither CS ME or the future CS Vietnam appeals to me.

And it looks to me that the current CS platform will slowly stagnate as no new dev work will be done to it. I also think that the player base for the original CS will continue to shrink.

For me, as a former CS player who loved the series, the most disheartening statements I've read are that the hundreds of player-generated CS scenarios for EF, WF, and RS will not be compatible with the new CS.3 platform.


There are alternative game platforms to CS ME and the future CS.3. Tiller's Panzer Battles has Battles of Kursk and the just released Battles of Normandy. The games feature attractive 2D counters and maps.


So.. yep, I abandoned the Campaign Series altogether... and moved on to the Tiller Operational Series - Panzer Campaigns.

I've made my decision... and I would suggest that other players will "vote" with their wallets too... either for or against the new CS series.







_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 43
RE: Begging - 1/15/2016 8:40:28 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kool Kat

Gents:

For me, as a former CS player who loved the series, the most disheartening statements I've read are that the hundreds of player-generated CS scenarios for EF, WF, and RS will not be compatible with the new CS.3 platform.





Unless, of course, a tool is developed that would allow that.

Jason Petho


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CS Vietnam

More info: Facebook & CS Legion

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 44
RE: Begging - 1/15/2016 8:40:35 PM   
berto


Posts: 20708
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kool Kat

For me, as a former CS player who loved the series, the most disheartening statements I've read are that the hundreds of player-generated CS scenarios for EF, WF, and RS will not be compatible with the new CS.3 platform.

Whatever gave you that idea?!

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big Ivan

There is no way you can rewrite over 5,000 logged scenarios in CS data bases across the world.

Preserving backward compatibility is of paramount importance.



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(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 45
RE: Begging - 1/16/2016 6:47:03 AM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		I wrote earlier that all the classic JTCS scenarios will need to be converted to new system, due to a different Unit ID format. That might been the source of confusion. But converted they will be. That's the plan anyways, and one of the key reasons for working on the WW II titles one at a time.

Anyhow, we're working with CS: Vietnam at the moment, so details how exactly that will be done will come later. I am confident it can be done.

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Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
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CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 <-- Jan 20th, 2022! --
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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Post #: 46
RE: Begging - 1/16/2016 9:08:19 AM   
Big Ivan


Posts: 1963
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

I wrote earlier that all the classic JTCS scenarios will need to be converted to new system, due to a different Unit ID format. That might been the source of confusion. But converted they will be. That's the plan anyways, and one of the key reasons for working on the WW II titles one at a time.

I am confident it can be done.


Crossroads, I hope your right and backward compatibility can be achieved.

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Blitz call sign Big Ivan.

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Post #: 47
RE: Begging - 1/16/2016 9:56:55 AM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Absolutely. Of paramount importance, as Berto wrote.

_____________________________

Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
---
CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 <-- Jan 20th, 2022! --
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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Post #: 48
RE: Begging - 1/17/2016 12:57:34 AM   
Deepstuff3725

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/1/2014
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I think Campaign Series is a great game as it is now ( thanks to all the updates done by this group ) and any future series releases will be even better versions of the game. I'm looking forward to it.

Jeff

(in reply to Crossroads)
Post #: 49
RE: Begging - 1/17/2016 7:24:31 AM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deepstuff123

I think Campaign Series is a great game as it is now ( thanks to all the updates done by this group ) and any future series releases will be even better versions of the game. I'm looking forward to it.

Jeff


Thanks Jeff, that is my firm belief as well. And why not, with these new building blocks available for WW II titles as well:

  • Nation and scenario specific Adaptive AI settings
  • New Platoon classification to allow for 10x more unit types (for instance the current JTCS German Platoon OoB is pretty much 'sold out')
  • Two new 2D Zoom-In views
  • Wish list item of a new 3D Zoom-in view
  • UI revamp
  • Unit base / Counter variations
  • 2D Counters with unit stats (PB/PL inspired)
  • A new Air Model with four levels (ground, noe, low, high)
  • Event engine (e.g. capture a hex to have reinforcements enter etc)
  • New weapon systems (for modern era as of now, but possible for WW II era too as needed)
  • Extensions to Optional Rules, to allow for a "Classic" play mode where possible
  • And last but certainly not least: Possible player wish list items from the various fora we participate with

    From top of my mind

    _____________________________

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    CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 <-- Jan 20th, 2022! --
    CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

    (in reply to Deepstuff3725)
    • Post #: 50
    RE: Begging - 1/17/2016 7:47:46 AM   
    76mm


    Posts: 4688
    Joined: 5/2/2004
    From: Washington, DC
    Status: offline     		Frankly I never really played the classic Campaign Series but personally I like all the changes...

    The long wait for them to be extended to the East Front will be kind of a pain however...

    (in reply to Crossroads)
    Post #: 51
    RE: Begging - 1/17/2016 7:51:07 AM   
    Crossroads


    Posts: 17372
    Joined: 7/5/2009
    Status: offline     		I know! I am an EF guy myself...

    _____________________________

    Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
    ---
    CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 <-- Jan 20th, 2022! --
    CS: Middle East 1948-1985 2.0

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    Post #: 52
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