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LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 10:35:59 AM   
Willaverill

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 12/22/2015
Status: offline 		Head scratcher that I can not seem to find the answer to.
I am at Dec 29 in my AI game.

Some of my units on DEC 8 set to move to destinations are not moving. I have a couple of examples, and I know terrain will have Some kind of impact.

I had 3 units in the northern part of Malaya that on Dec. 8 I set to move to Singapore (So 1 could reform) and by this point in my game are still not 1/2 way. There is even a secondary rd. Now they are cut off.
Davao had 1 unit I set to move north, and Zamboanga 2 to move east to Cagayan(sp?). Davao never moved until the IJA landed and it retreated 1 hex west. Now it seems to be moving. The units at Zamboanga just left their hex.

There seem to be quite a few that are not moving. Kuching comes to mind. Trying to move the troops to Sambas/Singkawang(funniest name on this game) so they can move south for transport pickup. Another is Kuantan, its been sitting in the city from the start and not moved south at all (I even tried sending it nw 1 hex to use the rd/bridge).

(I have noted on my last turn that Johor Baharu is not a "destination name" but I can set to Singapore. Glitch?)

2nd question is airlifts. I started using them due to the movement issues. Do the LCU being picked up leave their TOE behind? or is there something I am missing. Using 4 PA squadrons and 2 TR squadrons to get all ABCD COY units and the Lark out of Rabaul. I have almost all but the equipment for Lark. and only D Coy is left at LAE

I used the air lift for the reasons above because the Coy units got to Lae but stopped moving to Moresby.
Post #: 1
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 12:07:57 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		When you say stopped, they made no progress at all or they have not moved a hex? Several of your examples, the terrain is such that the units may only move 2 miles/day. that would mean 20 days to move one hex. If the enemy air attacks them, they may move only 1 mi/day ... or 40 days to move one hex. You need to inspect the LCU's carefully up in the top right to see if they are actually making progress. Screen shots will help us diagnose.


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Willaverill)
Post #: 2
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 1:25:39 PM   
Willaverill

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 12/22/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

When you say stopped, they made no progress at all or they have not moved a hex? Several of your examples, the terrain is such that the units may only move 2 miles/day. that would mean 20 days to move one hex. If the enemy air attacks them, they may move only 1 mi/day ... or 40 days to move one hex. You need to inspect the LCU's carefully up in the top right to see if they are actually making progress. Screen shots will help us diagnose.


TY PAX for the reply.
I will load a week of saves and check to see if they were indeed moving or not.

I take it troops do not have the common sense to "Route" themselves like ships do, and make a Bee Line for the chosen objective. Some of these cases have had roads not taken.

A nice to have feature would be like ships and have the option of safe, direct, etc.

I can not get screen shots so I will look for significant information.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 3
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 2:22:12 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Willaverill


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

When you say stopped, they made no progress at all or they have not moved a hex? Several of your examples, the terrain is such that the units may only move 2 miles/day. that would mean 20 days to move one hex. If the enemy air attacks them, they may move only 1 mi/day ... or 40 days to move one hex. You need to inspect the LCU's carefully up in the top right to see if they are actually making progress. Screen shots will help us diagnose.


TY PAX for the reply.
I will load a week of saves and check to see if they were indeed moving or not.

I take it troops do not have the common sense to "Route" themselves like ships do, and make a Bee Line for the chosen objective. Some of these cases have had roads not taken.

A nice to have feature would be like ships and have the option of safe, direct, etc.

I can not get screen shots so I will look for significant information.

The game logic for routing LCUs is sometimes OK (taking the most efficient path), but often not - especially if the distance is more than a couple of hexes. I find you must micro-manage the LCUs by giving them orders to move down a direct road path to the first place where a dogleg would cause the LCU to march into the jungle. Then I give them marching orders for the next leg.

A good example of this is on the Burma coastal road about half way between Akyab and the turn to Prome - there is one hex a little west of the others and if you do not order the LCUs to march there they will try to shortcut through the jungle, taking 24 days to cross to the next road hex.

You may not be able to do screen shots yet because the Matrix board needs to be able to trust that new posters will not be spamming with inappropriate content. I am not sure of the post count required before you get the right to upload pictures. It is probably in the FAQ for new users somewhere.
You may be able to send a picture as an attachment in a PM to another user.
If you are not sure how to create a screenshot just say so and someone here will give you a detailed how-to.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Willaverill)
Post #: 4
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 3:03:13 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		The rail lines are your best friends in Malaya.

Most of the roads are secondary types with slow movement rates for leg units even in move mode.

The way to evacuate your northern units to Singapore is by strategic movement on the rail lines.

It will take LCUs anywhere from 1-3 days to "pack" for strategic movement depending on unit size.

Companies and battalions take 1 day, regiments and brigades take 2 days, divisions take 3 days.

As others have pointed out movement is slow and the hexes are large. It is 46 miles from hex to hex.

It typically takes multiple days to move a single hex.

Movement progress can be seen in the upper right corner of the LCU interface.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 5:35:25 PM   
kbfchicago


Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline 		All good posts above...let me take it down a notch;

Three ways to move (slowest to fastest); Combat, Move, Strategic.
Strategic only works along rail lines & requires you to "pack up and "unpack" at start/finish

You can not dictate your strategic route (only destination). If your destination is not another city with rail, it will not allow the move. If your start point is not a city/rail you can not enter strategic mode ("pack up"). Can't start/stop in the middle, must start/stop at a city (dot city is ok)

You can select one or a lengthy hex route for combat and move. As noted above....with tight bends, multiple route possibilities, you will need to keep your distance selection short (one hex at times) to stay on the optimal path.

For combat/move, roads are relative...they help but we are not talking interstates here...and your units can have from 100s to 10,000s of soldiers, trucks, trailers, carts, donkeys, camp followers, sick, lame, lazy, (disrupted squads) et.al..

You can watch your progress. LCUs reflect "miles moved" and you can watch the counter click by. Keep an eye on this for various units and you will quickly get a feel for how quickly you can maneuver around the map (hint #1, not very quickly...) - each hex is +40 miles - 46 I think, but don't quote me not in front of the game at the moment - shirking - mean "eating lunch" at work .

Hint #2; often best to move to city/rail head then rail move vs. marching your way out (see comment above about Burma, great example). Even if the route is very indirect, often most efficient option.

Hint #3; you want to slow your enemy down...fly a few bombers or fighters/strafing against units trying to move. They slow to a crawl. If he hits you...you will need to "reset" your orders as bombing attacks will revert them to "combat" (much slower mode) from move.

Flying units out. Great plan, use it all the time.

Some equipment will go, depends on size and load out capability of AC. For AFBs, in early war, leave it and run, plenty of mess kits, field kitchens, and new mortars back at home base. Your unit will rebuild them once the piles of misc. equipment are overrun and destroyed.

happy gaming!

Kevin



(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 6:23:02 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		To confirm kbfchicago, the hexes are indeed 46 statute miles across on land, because the sea hexes are 40 nautical miles across and the conversion of the measurements makes the six mile difference.

Some other movement points:

- the type of terrain affects off-road movement greatly. Open terrain (shown as farmland and grassland) allows marching 7 miles a day or 15 miles mechanized movement. Add rough/wooded/jungle/mountain factors and movement slows down to varying degrees
- rail lines usually allow a marching unit to cover 5 miles a day.
- all movement figures are based on full supply and excellent morale. If the unit is fatigued/disrupted morale will be affected and the troops will not march as far (but they can flee an entire hex in one phase if they get attacked!)
- only British and American troops can use Strategic movement on first class roads (the gray ones). Other nations are deemed to not have enough transport to do this.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to kbfchicago)
Post #: 7
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 7:59:10 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		I have repeatedly noticed that the computer does not necessarily pick the most efficient route. If wanting to move through tough terrain the best way is to micro-manage and choose 1 square destination at a time.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 8:04:47 PM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Routing does fine most of the time. The issue it has often is when the destination is one hex away, it will try to walk straight to that hex ignoring roads. So I tend to set destinations that are far away and then just keep an eye on them as they march. Usually they will follow the roads in the best fashion. Sometimes, they may skip the road, but often when they do, if I check the math, they are actually picking a shorter route that will get them their quicker.

However, when they get to that last hex they almost always will try to march straight rather than sticking to a road route that is faster.

_____________________________


Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 9
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 9:07:56 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Two quick clarifications.

Strategic mode movement is not limited to rail lines for all units.

Certain nationalities which have motorization in abundance allow for motorized units to use strategic movement on major roads.

Armored units will move 120 miles per turn on major roads in strategic mode. This is one of the few times you will see a unit move more than one hex while not using a rail line.

The game hexes are 40 nautical miles which is equivalent to 46 statute miles. That's why LCUs have to travel 46 miles to move to an adjacent hex.


< Message edited by HansBolter -- 1/28/2016 10:09:55 PM >

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to FeurerKrieg)
Post #: 10
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 9:19:57 PM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Is this documented somewhere? I wasn't aware of any strat movement other than rail and strat mode for a tighter pack on ships. Are you saying you can put armor in strat mode and them move them on roads?

Learn something new everyday about this game...

_____________________________


Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 11
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 10:00:36 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Is this documented somewhere? I wasn't aware of any strat movement other than rail and strat mode for a tighter pack on ships. Are you saying you can put armor in strat mode and them move them on roads?

Learn something new everyday about this game...

As I said above - only US and British units can use strat mode on first class roads. I think it is in the manual.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to FeurerKrieg)
Post #: 12
RE: LCU Movement - 1/28/2016 11:05:34 PM   
kbfchicago


Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you BB!!! I switched to JFB a couple of years ago and was wondering why I couldn't get that extra nudge out of my troops like I did as an AFB. Must have missed (or forgotten) the memo/manual note on the bump for Brits and US. Love this game, love this forum...after six years still something new every time I hang out!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 13
RE: LCU Movement - 1/29/2016 7:34:07 AM   
Willaverill

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 12/22/2015
Status: offline 		The game logic for routing LCUs is sometimes OK (taking the most efficient path), but often not - especially if the distance is more than a couple of hexes. I find you must micro-manage the LCUs by giving them orders to move down a direct road path to the first place where a dogleg would cause the LCU to march into the jungle. Then I give them marching orders for the next leg.

Ok they ARE moving. The unit at Kuantan was trying to cross the stupid river to get south. I set it to the bridge/crossing to the NW ant it is moving "faster" lol. I fear it is too late though, we'll see

A good example of this is on the Burma coastal road about half way between Akyab and the turn to Prome - there is one hex a little west of the others and if you do not order the LCUs to march there they will try to shortcut through the jungle, taking 24 days to cross to the next road hex.

Going to attempt to build up Akyab but it appears to be kind of isolated. Any ideas on how to get it built faster? I am attempting an amphib landing but all I have are the xAKP and xAKL. Airlift in seems to be a bad option with no TOE to go with the BF

If you have a mechanized unit stacked with other units do they all get the mech bonus?

You may not be able to do screen shots yet because the Matrix board needs to be able to trust that new posters will not be spamming with inappropriate content. I am not sure of the post count required before you get the right to upload pictures. It is probably in the FAQ for new users somewhere.
You may be able to send a picture as an attachment in a PM to another user.
If you are not sure how to create a screenshot just say so and someone here will give you a detailed how-to.
[/quote]

I can not post screen shots as my game is on a stand alone system. I have no wifi. So I post on a work computer. Its complicated atm

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14
RE: LCU Movement - 1/29/2016 10:36:05 AM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline 		Unless you are going to defend decently the hex either to the E of Akyab or the one to guard the trail leading to Cox's Bazaar it is a death trap for anything you put there. Once the Imperials are at the end of the yellow trail you are in trouble.

Roger




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Roger Neilson 3 -- 1/29/2016 11:37:30 AM >

_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

(in reply to Willaverill)
Post #: 15
RE: LCU Movement - 1/29/2016 12:26:57 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Unless you are going to defend decently the hex either to the E of Akyab or the one to guard the trail leading to Cox's Bazaar it is a death trap for anything you put there. Once the Imperials are at the end of the yellow trail you are in trouble.

Roger




I agree. It is wiser to build Chittagong first and then if there is time and troops available build Cox's Bazar. But look closely at the LCU for % TOE, morale, leadership, and experience. Some of the units are basically useless until they fill out and train and get a decent leader. Most of those lousy units I send back to the cities that require garrisons and I try to find reasonably good units to bring forward.
Units in central Burma usually have to retreat to Kohima and the other base along that road.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RogerJNeilson)
Post #: 16
RE: LCU Movement - 1/30/2016 2:53:41 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

Posts: 273
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

To confirm kbfchicago, the hexes are indeed 46 statute miles across on land, because the sea hexes are 40 nautical miles across and the conversion of the measurements makes the six mile difference.

Some other movement points:

- the type of terrain affects off-road movement greatly. Open terrain (shown as farmland and grassland) allows marching 7 miles a day or 15 miles mechanized movement. Add rough/wooded/jungle/mountain factors and movement slows down to varying degrees
- rail lines usually allow a marching unit to cover 5 miles a day.
- all movement figures are based on full supply and excellent morale. If the unit is fatigued/disrupted morale will be affected and the troops will not march as far (but they can flee an entire hex in one phase if they get attacked!)
- only British and American troops can use Strategic movement on first class roads (the gray ones). Other nations are deemed to not have enough transport to do this.


I saw a thread some months ago in which the developers confirmed that US Marine Corps is a separate "nationality" from US Army, and the USMC lacks the ability to strat move on roads. I recall marking that down for careful consideration whenever I
actually get the nerve to tackle the learning cliff on this beast!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 17
RE: LCU Movement - 1/30/2016 9:54:28 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

whenever I actually get the nerve to tackle the learning cliff on this beast!


No time like the present.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Mike Dubost)
Post #: 18
RE: LCU Movement - 2/1/2016 2:00:11 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

To confirm kbfchicago, the hexes are indeed 46 statute miles across on land, because the sea hexes are 40 nautical miles across and the conversion of the measurements makes the six mile difference.

Some other movement points:

- the type of terrain affects off-road movement greatly. Open terrain (shown as farmland and grassland) allows marching 7 miles a day or 15 miles mechanized movement. Add rough/wooded/jungle/mountain factors and movement slows down to varying degrees
- rail lines usually allow a marching unit to cover 5 miles a day.
- all movement figures are based on full supply and excellent morale. If the unit is fatigued/disrupted morale will be affected and the troops will not march as far (but they can flee an entire hex in one phase if they get attacked!)
- only British and American troops can use Strategic movement on first class roads (the gray ones). Other nations are deemed to not have enough transport to do this.


I saw a thread some months ago in which the developers confirmed that US Marine Corps is a separate "nationality" from US Army, and the USMC lacks the ability to strat move on roads. I recall marking that down for careful consideration whenever I
actually get the nerve to tackle the learning cliff on this beast!


To see which Allied nationalities can, and which cannot use strategic road movement, see my post in this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3754149&mpage=1&key=road%2Cmovement�

Not all American troops can, and there are some others besides the British who can.

Alfred

(in reply to Mike Dubost)
Post #: 19
RE: LCU Movement - 2/2/2016 2:53:27 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		My thanks to all for the expert advice. Have to rethink my China troops that are falling back.. Playing GC DBL Scen 26 i believe

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 20
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