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Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (ATG rules)?

 
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Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (ATG ... - 3/24/2016 9:10:25 AM   
sarnold2222

 

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I've tried starting AT Classic scenario with the ATGold rules, which allow resources like oil and raw, which I love. But I've had no success at all.
Does anybody know if it is possible? If so, any details on how to would be greatly appreciated.
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/24/2016 11:04:42 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Yes, it is possible, but it is just as easy to remake it, than to make it play by ATG rules, in my oppinion.

(in reply to sarnold2222)
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/24/2016 12:01:31 PM   
sarnold2222

 

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Thanks for quick response Ernie.
I'm interested in World at War revised (not the New WaW for ATG that Tom did). The old WaW revised is a pretty complex scenario, but it doesn't have oil and raw as resources that you have to manage, which I love as part of ATG. Remaking WaW Revised is just way more than I want to take on.
Are there any instructions existing about how to do something so it will play with ATG? I've looked but not found any. Thanks in advance.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/25/2016 7:49:45 AM   
Ormand


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This is doable (I believe). I don't think it is all that hard, but it is not for the faint of heart. It will take about 0.5-1.0 day or so to do, and a few days to debug. Making sure you caught everything. There are several steps, and hopefully I have them all here. Experimentation is called for here. It is largely doable because ATG is predominantly an extension of AT.

1. The first thing you need to do is to create regime variables to keep track of the resources. Go to "Setng", "Regime Slot names 0-499". In the window on the left, there a bunch of empty slots. Name one of the Oil and the other Raw. (Look at ANewDawn3 for most of this to see how it is done). Change the Show button from "False" to "True". This will show the amount up in the bar at the top. These regime variables will keep track of the amount of the resource for each regime.

2. You need to make sure that there is an item group name for resources. Do this with the Group Names slot, and go down to "ItemGroups". Create two, one Raw Resources, the other Oil Resources (this way you can make it so that a mine can only make ore, and an oil field, only oil).

3. The next thing to do is to create an item to be produced. This done under the "Item" button. Add two items, call them Ore and Oil. You need to define the item group, raw resources for ore, and oil resources for oil. Then specify a production cost, it looks like 50 for ore, and 4 for oil. To make it a resource, then click on "IsRegimeSlot" and set it to the appropriate slot, Oil and Raw. Now, production of this item will go into the Regime Slot. Note that in ANewDawn, there are two types of resources, normal and recycled. One is for the resource center, and the other is for production centers, like cities. They both fill the approporiate Regime Slot.

4. Now that you have the items and a way of counting the resource, you have to have the resource centers. For this you need to create Location Types that will generate the resource. Click on "LT" at the top, and this will bring up the Loctypes. Here, there will be cities, capitals, etc. You'll need to create an oil and raw center. Again, look at these in ANewDawn scenarios. This is predominantly done under the "statistics" panel. Here you specify the number of production points, and set "AutoProd" to the appropriate item. Now, this center will produce the resource, and it will fill the RegimeSlot. You will need to play around with the picture, and make sure that AI autobuild is disabled, etc. To have multiple levels, Raw 1, Raw 2, etc., look at ANewDawn again. But, easy enough. Make it buildable, give EP, supply, and PP cost. Specify what it is upgraded from. Also, change the production level etc. Be sure to specify the Ground types where it can be and set the peoples to true.

5. Now, we need to set the cost for each item that will require ore to be built. Look at Light Tanks, in the middle of the slots, there is a button for "RegimeSlotCost", click this and set the RegimeSlot number, (0 for ore in NewDawn) and specify the cost, say 20. Now, every light tank will require 20 ore for it to be built. Do this for every item that will need this resource to be built.

5. Then, you need to edit every SFT that will use a resource (oil). The first button specifies which RegimeSlot used for fuel. Then specify the amount of fuel used for actions. Again, use ANewDawn as a model for how you want to do it. It must be done for each SFT that will use fuel.

6. Now, in the map, you need place the resources for the game. If we are talking a random game, this is harder.

7. If you are not allowing AI regimes, I think you are done. I am not 100% sure that there isn't something left, but most likely it would be something left over in the above steps. If you want AI regimes, there is more to do. Basically, you will need to import a couple events from ANewDawn. This is because the AI will not upgrade level 1 resources to level 2, etc. Also, it will not necessarily be resource compliant. For resource compliance, bring in event #40. Take a look at event #41 as well. This gives the AI a bonus for each raw and oil well it posses, and also randomly upgrades them. You will need to check your LocTypes with those in the event. For example line 17 checks if a loctype is raw 1, loctype number 2. Then further down with a 17% chance it is upgraded to raw 2, loctype number 16. The same is done for oil 1, and then later on for raw 2 and oil 2. You'll have to look through it, and change the event to match the loctypes you have. This will allow the AI to upgrade its resources, and will help it from running out by giving it bonuses (I think too many, but ...). Then event 39 looks at if the regime is using too much oil, and changes production accordingly. Lastly, you may want to have the fuel report from event #22. Here you will have change the regimevar to the slot you used for oil in the game.


< Message edited by Ormand -- 3/25/2016 7:53:54 AM >

(in reply to sarnold2222)
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/25/2016 9:25:59 AM   
sarnold2222

 

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Wow Ormand! Thanks for the detailed instructions. Yes a tad daunting and time consuming and I may not be up to the task, but I hope to give it a try.
I'm impressed you can know so much you can write instructions for it.
One little point: I assume that these instructions are for saving scenario as classic rules and playing as original AT? (just modded to look and act more like ATG).

(in reply to Ormand)
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/25/2016 11:14:35 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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This instruction will allow for Raw and Oil to appear, but it won't be with ATG rules. There still are alot of changes that need to be made for that. For instance, to touch on a minor subject would be all the rule vars.

Also since he wants to modify an existing scenario, to use Raw and Oil, among other things I assume, then you also need to place these things as they would be historically, and balance of course the amount produced to the game... No small feat, if you ask me.

(in reply to sarnold2222)
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/25/2016 11:32:16 AM   
sarnold2222

 

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No small feat indeed. And yes, balancing amounts of oil and resources with units, use, etc... does indeed seem like a good amount of research.

Ernie- when you say lots of rules changes, can you elaborate a bit?

And just to be sure I'm not missing anything - is there not some relatively easy import/convert button/tool/feature somewhere? Or is it really a matter of manually converting everything?

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/25/2016 3:17:33 PM   
Ormand


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ernieschwitz is right. After all that I forgot to say that the real hard part is to design the game to use it. Test it, and make sure that it makes sense, etc. You'll have to play several games. First to make sure that somewhere along the line you didn't make a mistake, like giving a small value of fuel usage for heavy tanks, etc. But, also to see if the game makes sense after you put it in.

ATG adds several features, and many of them are with events. Unfortunately, there is no automatic conversion method. Largely because you can define these things yourself, and it wouldn't be possible to take a random scenario and convert it. So, yes, you would have to do it manually.

(in reply to sarnold2222)
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RE: Teach an old dog (AT classic scenario) new tricks (... - 3/25/2016 3:54:48 PM   
sarnold2222

 

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Joined: 2/8/2016
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Thanks so much for the input Ernie and Ormand. Sounds like a really big project, more than I want to undertake. I'm not a programmer myself and so I'd probably be in over my head anyway.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 9
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