Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Soviet opponent wanted GC (closed)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Opponents Wanted >> Soviet opponent wanted GC (closed) Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Soviet opponent wanted GC (closed) - 4/1/2016 6:54:45 PM   
Guilev

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/9/2014
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

I'm looking for a soviet opponent for a Grand Campaign.

I propose to play the last patch: version 1.08.08 (can be discussed).

House rules:
No para drops in 1941
No bombing of units more than 2 times a turn.
No bombing of air bases more than 2 times a turn (after turn 1).
No bombing of HQ's unless stacked with a ground unit.
No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943.
In addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea,
which reflects the scope for air/naval interdiction not really reflected in the game.

Additional Auto VC:
If the Axis player holds Leningrad, Moscow, Voronezh and Rostov concurrently at any time in 1941 he wins an Auto Victory.

Optional Rules Setup:
Reduced Blizzard
Non Random Weather (can be discussed)

I can play 3 turns per week.


< Message edited by Castelneau -- 4/2/2016 7:54:28 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/1/2016 10:32:05 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Germans really hate that blizzard. If you move by Naval Transport/Amph you do get bombed (if player has bombers), So yes it is in game. The other air rules don't hurt Russian since it's the Luftwaffe that held front together (along with arty) Guard your HQ that's what fighter are for.
Why be afraid of paras? If they drop out of supply you kill them.

These rules look like Pelton rules. I don't think he has ever played Soviets. Germans always want their 41 rules but don't want Soviets to have their winter. Soviet units are made small at start so Germans can win in summer. The blizzard and +1 rules are there to make things right not coddle Soviets. You want your cake and eat it to. (Give Germans summer of 41 and 42 after mild winter) What knucklehead thinks these house rules are fair? As far as weather I would only play non random since everyone talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it. It should be what it was.
I think I will refrain from PBEM until they fix the screwy supply rules where panzers refuel from the air.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Guilev)
Post #: 2
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/1/2016 11:26:17 PM   
Guilev

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/9/2014
Status: offline 		Hi Mogami,

Concerning blizzard, during first winter the germans have too much malus and soviets can attack way too easily them. Reduced blizzard for first winter makes the thing more balanced like in reality but still with soviet bonus. A good soviet player still can push backward germans, encircled units and hurt german divisions if he prepared armies in reserve for the winter counter-attack.

Concerning naval transport, it is just no to have divisions attacking far away the front line very soon when your bombers are near the front. It takes time to move them and german player needs all aircrafts at the beginning of the game to push forward. After, the front is more stable and he can moves airbases near the sea.

Air rules are made because with the latest patch air bombs are powerful and can kill too much airplanes in airbases or men in divisions, which is not like in reality.
Moreover bombing HQ if there is not unit in the cell is gamey because you kill leaders.

Para drop: I can modify this rule, it's just that the point is not how hazard they are but how annoying they can be for supply: you drop para units on the main railroads of the germans and this can be really dangerous, especially in 1941. You have partisans to attack german territory and especially the railroad network. I accept para drops but only since 1942 when the railroad network is enough repaired.

Air supply: it has been lowered with latest patches

Random weather: dépends of players but I prefere to have non random weather for spring summer and automn to carry out offensives at defined periods rather than non random weather which can kill an offensive in summer.
Weeks to Attack are few during the year because of the mud and the blizzard: they prevent attacks which were in reality still possible even if more difficult. So knowing the exact period to attack is better because we don't have weather forecasts like in reality so we can't adapt to weather.

It's wrong to say it is only germans' rules:
- soviet player has time for him
- in summer 1942, against a good soviet player it is diffcult to attack if there is a defence in depth
- soviet units have the advantage during winter to attack
- since 1943 soviet player has 3 years to win while german player has only 4 months in 1941 until blizzard and spring and summer in 1942 to try to win

I encourage you to play as germans to see why we defend these rules which normally don't harm the soviet player too much and allow a balance game.

< Message edited by Castelneau -- 4/2/2016 12:06:49 AM >

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 3
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 1:20:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I am not really interested in balance. I am interested in accuracy. Having a rule because something annoys you is not a valid reason. Your opponents job is to annoy you. The entire point of the game is to see if the German player can win in 41. The scenario description tells you if you don't win in 41 you have to keep the Soviets out of Berlin. If the threat of naval landings keep bombers from the front then that is what it is. It makes securing Soviet naval bases a item on the German "to do" list. Why do you think the Luftwaffe has those torpedo planes?
I intend on bombing Ploesti if I can. (and any other worth while target) I don't send units on suicide missions (when in a pocket sometimes one unit has be the rear guard) I don not do anything just because the game allows it. It has to make valid military sense. (and not break any law of physics)

suggested house rules.
1. Panzers cannot be refueled from air. If such a thing was possible the Allies would have done it and we certainly would have done it during Gulf Wars. Germany did not posses this capability and I don't think the designers meant to allow panzer advances of 500+ miles in 2 weeks.
2. Germans must prepare for blizzard. You know when it comes they didn't. The Soviet offensive is dealt with by preparing not ham stringing Soviet units. Use the mud and snow turns to get German army into winter defensive stance. If you have not already met victory conditions your 42 offense depends on shorting lines and surviving winter. (that's history)
3.Guard your rear and HQ (that's what AA and fighter are for) C2 is a very valid target. If that means your security divisions have to perform security mission rather then serve on front line so be it.
All this Pelton jump into the air and land in Soviet rear and both flanks is "Middle Earth" I saw his notebook post of first move. All it reveals is that he spent time looking at Soviet dispositions recording unit values and computing what he needed to get 2-1 odds. That's not how you are supposed to plan your turn. The game expects players to use detection levels and recon not snooping in the editor.
If people want to play Axis and see what they can do. They should also accept the limits the accual combatants faced. I refuse to play people who can manipulate the system. (or would even try)
The Soviet players task is much harder then the Germans. They have to win. The German player only has to avoid losing. There is no reason for a single Axis unit to surrender in Winter 41.
A house rule is meant to correct an exploit. Not to remove what might in reality been possible. If it means you must safe guard against Para drops/Naval landings/HQ being bombed ect then so be it. Bomb Soviet HQ it's completely fair and valid. Drop your paratroops where they aid operations. (fighters can destroy them by shooting down their transports) Just don't make a rules because dealing with them bothers you.
Lets keep negotiating. I want to play Soviets with their limits and advantages against an Axis player dealing with theirs.
In present beta there are issues that need to be resolved before committing to long game. (Against Axis AI it is summer 42 and the front is stagnant because AI lost 64 Divisions in winter. (No human Axis player would lose that) Still it has been able to hold front and push back any ground I gain. (Building Corps will solve this but it will require time into 1943 to achieve. I have not seen the issues with bombing. The one time I set computer to auto bomb Axis airfields I lost 500+ bombers and destroyed less then 100 on the ground. If I was Axis I would beg Soviet player to bomb me.
Good luck finding someone. These posts are really directed towards any would be Axis player looking for a game. I have never played a human in this game. I bought it on March 10th I think. The game I am playing against AI is my first. I have not even loaded Axis yet. (I don't want to know)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Guilev)
Post #: 4
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 1:22:14 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, One more item. Soviets do not have 3 years. They have a little over 2. (Berlin by May 45) But they also have to deal with 1/3 of that time being mud.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 5
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 1:41:40 AM   
Guilev

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/9/2014
Status: offline 		Hi Mogami,

I read your comments and try to understand your point of view.
Maybe you are right, I don't have much experience on soviet side so maybe my rules were to hard.

But I don't want to be both angry on that, it's just a game ;).

I offer you to play a PEBM together, you as the soviets and me as the germans, based on your house rules.
Thus we can see how it goes for both sides.

Tell me if you are interested ;)

Cheers.

< Message edited by Castelneau -- 4/2/2016 1:43:53 AM >

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 6
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 2:23:59 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I certainly did not mean to be angry or insulting. If I am going to devote several years to a game I don't want either sides results to be a product of rule manipulation or bugs. Currently Soviet units destroyed prior to Nov 41 return but never accept replacements. This must be fixed in public patch.
Also the Axis player should understand he holds the cards. He has the chance of auto victory in 41 (I don't mind that one about the 4 cities) And failing that he can go for the win by not losing Berlin. The Soviet player must conduct a 2 year defense. Then he must execute a 2 year drive. The German by skillful mobile defense (mobile formations/Luftwaffe/arty) prevents the Soviets from meeting their objectives. If defense is not a players thing then avoid this game because both sides have to endure enemy pressure for long periods. (unless of course you take those 4 cities in 41)
I've been reading the AAR's. Too many people ignore the reality of combat 1939-1945. We have Pegasus panzers, ZOC without a unit within 30 miles, RR that stop working when the lines are still connected to rail yards. And then house rules that prevent actions that in fact were possible (and likely to have occurred given the opportunity)
What are your expectations for both the game and the conduct of your opponent? I will never do anything I feel was beyond the capabilities of my forces in the time period covered. (I have played 63 turns against the AI and to date have made no para drops or amph landings.)
But the thought of enemy panzers driving 500+ miles in 2 weeks kills any desire I have to play such an opponent. (the math problem for the class is: Compute the required tonnage of fuel required for 100+ tanks
and the time required to recover all these 55 gallon drums of gas scattered all over the country side, move them to fuel depot and drive the 100+ tanks trough to be refueled. And does the Luftwaffe in it's entirety posses enough aircraft to transport this fuel in a single mission? If not how many movement points should be expended while multiple missions are flown?) We will ignore the problem of where all this fuel comes from in the first place.
The German Army in 1941 was NOT a motorized army. The mobile formations are the heart and soul of offensive operations. The infantry is very capable on the defense. However their logistics are HORSE drawn.
Just driving a tank 30 miles to my rear and then departing in no way impedes my capability. I understand that is how the game works but I refuse to play against people who enhance their magic tanks ability simply because they know the Soviet units are all hamstrung by rules to assist a normal Axis player in their efforts to conduct the surprise 1941 invasion.
History Lesson #1
1. Axis conduct of offensive in 1941 was NOT consistent with initial goals. More then once forces were diverted from strategic objectives in order to "POCKET" Soviet formations. In majority of AAR's the pocket is the be all end all objective. As in chess material out of play has no value. You do not need to kill units just render them pointless.

So while I do not need to know the "Grand" plan of Axis opponent it is important that they know it.
If your plan is kill enemy formations above all else then that is a very valid plan. But expect to fight a long war where defending Berlin is main objective. If you plan on 4 city auto and fail then expect a very harsh Soviet retribution in winter where you then transpose into defending Berlin. (But if you take the 4 cities then "Game over man")

Nothing happens in any case before public beta because I've noted problems that cannot be tolerated in such a long endeavor.
PEACE







_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Guilev)
Post #: 7
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 2:38:53 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, 3 turns per week in long campaign equals 72 weeks. I am retired so have that much time. I expect I'll have multiple games going. Don't really want to play Germans while I am playing Soviets because I will gain too much intell/understanding of both sides. In the Grand scheme of things I admit Soviets have the advantage if they survive 1941. But that was the reality of the situation. Germany simply took on more then it could handle. In 1943 the Western Allies alone could have defeated the Axis by 1946. This is a game where the Axis player does not have to face this dilemma. The much debated and sought after "balance" is provided by the requirement for the Soviets to take Berlin. There is no possible victory for Soviets without the capture of Berlin. This should be your ultimate fall back position.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 8
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 2:58:03 AM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		I love this game, but it is a fantasy game & it was nice to read your posts about the actual
realities in running an army in the 40's.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 9
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:08:24 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		You forgot one.

The "You have to play by Stalin orders during the first year but I can ignore Hitler's."

The last game I was supposed to play, that's what the Axis player wanted.

So it didn't happen.

Too many Axis favored house rules.....

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 10
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:10:54 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ice

I love this game, but it is a fantasy game & it was nice to read your posts about the actual
realities in running an army in the 40's.


+1

There is only one house rule I would even consider. Who holds Berlin at game's end wins.


_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to Icier)
Post #: 11
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:17:16 AM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		Mr Mogami,

You get units to whatever toe you wish by using cr (commanders report) or may use the unit "window".

Might I suggest you spend some time on the forums and the history of the game. You have made far too many errors in fact and in judgement for me to list them all. :) and I mean it.

Welcome to the game.

there are 6 naval "inf" brigades, permanent brigades, the naval rifle brigades are the "convertible" ones.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 12
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:22:48 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, That is the most important rule. House rules are meant to avoid program irregularities.
Other then that let the game take it's course. The game should be decided on player decisions not the ability to "stretch" rules.
Some people say "rules are made to be broken" I am a believer in using my ability within the plausible.
The paradox of this game is too many Axis players forget they are the defenders. It is upon the Soviets that the burden of attack is placed. The majority of house rules all aid the the attack of the Axis??

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 13
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:39:44 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, The info on TOE settings was a god send thank you so much.
I have 9 Naval infantry Brigades. I also have 4 Naval Rifle Brigades. They do not form rifle div. Thanks for pointing out the infantry Brigades do not. (although I would swear I did with others)
I would suggest the program set TOE to 100% for returning units so player does not have to manually set 40+ units.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 4/2/2016 3:41:54 AM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 14
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:42:52 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Don't try to list them all just start with the "biggies"

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 15
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:47:47 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

The paradox of this game is too many Axis players forget they are the defenders. It is upon the Soviets that the burden of attack is placed.


So we should have an optional rule that from the first turn on the Germans cant move/attack across the border to attack. Gotcha, as Germany I should only defend. That is a Paradox isnt it????

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 4/2/2016 3:50:53 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 16
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:55:23 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I think you are looking for an argument. There are 215+ turns to game. Axis is aggressor for fewer turns then Soviets are defender.
Assuming of course Axis does not win in 41. Try a game where you don't attack on turn one. The Soviets will be in Berlin before the end of 1943.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 4/2/2016 3:57:32 AM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 17
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:58:08 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Ah can't edit fix. Axis attacks fewer turns then Soviets

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 18
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 4:15:59 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, OK the largest obstacle has been removed. I just set 84 Divisions to new TOE levels. I would suggest the default be 100% rather then 20%. ( No unit commander ever said "give me 20% of my unit") The only reason to default less would be pool levels. The player can fix that one unit at a time rather then every unit at once. Now my problem is I have no room at the front for 84 new divisions. The Axis never activated several fronts so I have the 108point command limit. 18 points per army=6 armies per front. Most of my armies already meet that.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 19
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 4:18:55 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Nope, not looking for an argument, just trying to understand the mentality that is the forums.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I think you are looking for an argument. There are 215+ turns to game. Axis is aggressor for fewer turns then Soviets are defender.
Assuming of course Axis does not win in 41. Try a game where you don't attack on turn one. The Soviets will be in Berlin before the end of 1943.



_____________________________


(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 20
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 4:29:41 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, My mentality is friendly/neutral. I don't look for fights. I look to improve the game. I read every AAR before buying the game. I saw a lot of flying panzers and Axis who forgot the game did not end winter 1941. They try to buy a second 1941 by saying winter is too rough. Winter is only rough if Axis forces are not prepared. I do not play random weather. So both players have advantage of knowing exactly when weather shifts. I have now altered my stance against being Axis. No one will ever capture Berlin. I will send a case of P.U. to first person who gets to Berlin when I am Axis. (If you don't know what P.U. is then you have not been here long enough to know who Mogami is.) As Axis I will never employ the magic tricks.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 21
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 4:35:22 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, As Axis my rules, Capture Berlin you win. Alt CV, Bomb what you want when you want. Use Naval where and when. Drop those paras when and where. Non Random Weather. FOW on. HQ lock (this does give you control right? otherwise unlock I don't care) Soviets can choose +1 defend or +1 attack

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 22
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 4:58:53 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Any Axis player can use my rules against me.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 23
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 5:15:27 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Ran a turn and all units that had less then 100% TOE received replacements. (Hats off to Charlie)
This was why I would not start a PBEM game. I suggest there remain Soviet players who are not aware of this.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 4/2/2016 5:16:57 AM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 24
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 6:59:09 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, If the AI after losing 2.3million can hold a line in 1942 I really don't see where there is a real problem with Soviets being over compensated.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 25
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 3:44:07 PM   
Guilev

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/9/2014
Status: offline 		Well, an interesting discussion has been open but let's go back to the point of this thread: I am still looking for an opponent ;)

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 26
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 6:21:15 PM   
Kel


Posts: 229
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		Agree with the house rules. Only change requested : I am a bit tired of historical weather and the systematic calculations it implies. I propose random weather (to add some unpredictability to the calendar + over the course of a 41-45 campaign, it favors neither player). You can setup a challenge on the server or PM me.

< Message edited by Kelblau -- 4/2/2016 6:44:55 PM >

(in reply to Guilev)
Post #: 27
RE: Soviet opponent wanted GC - 4/2/2016 7:57:55 PM   
Guilev

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/9/2014
Status: offline 		Hi Kelbau,

Thanks for playing with me. I sent you a PM.

(in reply to Kel)
Post #: 28
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Opponents Wanted >> Soviet opponent wanted GC (closed) Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.766