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OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 2:59:42 AM   
KMCCARTHY

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 11/28/2009
Status: offline 		See http://warisboring.com/articles/the-wretched-excess-of-the-campaign-for-north-africa/

I had several dozen SPI games, including War in the East (I graduated from High School in 1979), but I was never foolish enough to buy this.
Post #: 1
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 3:31:59 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		I had that game. I played one scenario for about four turns. Unfortunately, I dumped it somewhere along the way. Probably worth a fortune nowadays.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to KMCCARTHY)
Post #: 2
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 3:47:31 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		About 400 bucks if new in the box. Other games will fetch as much. Scorched Earth (a much more playable game) will fetch about that much if not more.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 3
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 3:56:21 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

About 400 bucks if new in the box. Other games will fetch as much. Scorched Earth (a much more playable game) will fetch about that much if not more.

I own a copy in mint condition.
Never tried to play it...the game really cries out for computer assistance.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 4
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 3:59:37 AM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		It is fun, but it was hard to get all the people together at one time to play for a while. Never got more than about 15 - 20 turns into the game.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 5
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 4:06:01 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		As I think more about it, I liked the air part and did a solitaire air campaign for a while. That's about all I got out of it. Paid $25 for an advanced purchase and it ended up being something like one to two years late. I probably gave it to a Goodwill in Arizona. Hopefully a grognard stumbled on it.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 6
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 4:29:42 AM   
KMCCARTHY

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 11/28/2009
Status: offline 		Alas, I gave all my SPI games away to a friend during my 2nd year on active duty in 1982. He passed away early and the last time I talked to him was 1989.

I still remember the thrill of getting a new game every month in S&T in the '70s.

Great memories of a few nerd friends, when nerds were not cool. Luckily, I keep in touch with the other two.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 7
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 7:38:56 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Why can't they port it to PC?

(in reply to KMCCARTHY)
Post #: 8
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 7:54:10 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Need to find the programmers willing to write it and there would be no guarantee of success. If you had to pay programmers, it could cost $100,000 easily, probably more. A really hot product in the war game market sells about 10,000 copies over its lifetime. Most sell a lot less. If you sell the game for $50 and only sell 1000 copies over its life, that's a $50,000 return on a $100,000 investment.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 9
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 8:01:19 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Thanks.


Théoden: "How many?"

Aragorn: "Ten thousand strong at least."

[Théoden turns to face Aragorn.]

Théoden: "Ten thousand?!"

Aragorn: "It is a game bred for a single purpose: to destroy the spare time of Men."

Aragorn: "It will be available by nightfall."

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 10
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 6:48:15 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		This looks like a little cousin to SPI's "War in Europe". I managed to get several years into that monster. It filled the whole rumpus room. I can't remember if it was a jealous girlfriend or an over indulged cat that finished it off. I found that even with a whole room I had to chop the top half of the Scandinavian countries.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 11
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 8:56:52 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

This looks like a little cousin to SPI's "War in Europe". I managed to get several years into that monster. It filled the whole rumpus room. I can't remember if it was a jealous girlfriend or an over indulged cat that finished it off. I found that even with a whole room I had to chop the top half of the Scandinavian countries.

There is a computer version of War in Europe, if you didn't already know. Unfortunately no AI.

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 12
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/5/2016 9:02:00 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

.... I dumped it somewhere along the way. Probably worth a fortune nowadays.

Cheers,
CC



I do hope so.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 13
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/7/2016 6:50:38 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		"52.6] The Italian Pasta Rule


One of the biggest mistakes the Italians made during the entire Desert Campaign was to provide their troops with a diet which was composed, in large part, of spaghetti and macaroni. Aside from providing insufficient protein (this wasn’t Buitoni Brand) pasta has one serious drawback in the desert: you need water to cook it! Therefore, each Italian battalion,when it receives its Stores, must receive an additional 1 point of water when stores are distributed. Any battalion-sized unit that does not receive their Pasta Point (one water point) may not voluntarily exceed their CPA that turn. Furthermore, Italian battalions not receiving their Pasta Point that have a Cohesion Level of -10 or worse immediately become Disorganized, as if they had reached -26. As soon as such units get their Pasta Point,they regain the original cohesion level(i.e., the level they had before they disintegrated.)"


NOW that is great, I never thought of that problem before :)

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 14
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/7/2016 7:15:40 PM   
blueatoll


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

"52.6] The Italian Pasta Rule


One of the biggest mistakes the Italians made during the entire Desert Campaign was to provide their troops with a diet which was composed, in large part, of spaghetti and macaroni. Aside from providing insufficient protein (this wasn’t Buitoni Brand) pasta has one serious drawback in the desert: you need water to cook it! Therefore, each Italian battalion,when it receives its Stores, must receive an additional 1 point of water when stores are distributed. Any battalion-sized unit that does not receive their Pasta Point (one water point) may not voluntarily exceed their CPA that turn. Furthermore, Italian battalions not receiving their Pasta Point that have a Cohesion Level of -10 or worse immediately become Disorganized, as if they had reached -26. As soon as such units get their Pasta Point,they regain the original cohesion level(i.e., the level they had before they disintegrated.)"


NOW that is great, I never thought of that problem before :)

Well, I used to peripherally know Richard Berg (the designer) and he said that he'd created this rule because the supply system in the game was broken and SPI playtesters (yes, apparently this was playtested, poor volunteers) couldn't figure out how to fix it so that the Italians didn't always occupy Cairo even BEFORE the DAK shows up. The solution was to cripple the Italian's supply situation to slow them down.

It was a convenient 'recipe' to slowing the Italians down and went along with the general idea that the Italian Army in WWII was substandard. Yes, they weren't great but in 1940 they were a match for what the Brits had deployed in Egypt until they overextended their supply lines and the Brits got serious. In the context of the game, that's about 3 months of the Italians running rampant without a 'Pasta' rule in effect. More than enough time to get to the Nile (and it's plentiful source of water for field ration carbonaras).

I never delved into the game but my buddy Karl played it TWICE! solo.

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 15
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/7/2016 7:28:03 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Is this the infamous game where you had to ensure your Italians had enough water to boil their pasta or else suffer morale check rolls?

_____________________________


(in reply to blueatoll)
Post #: 16
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/7/2016 10:07:52 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Only well known mega-board game I never owned or played!

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 17
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/7/2016 11:30:45 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		I still have my original copy of this (the game that got me here)

War in the Pacific – The Campaign Against Imperial Japan, 1941-45 is a multi-level simulation of the Pacific Theater of Operations during World War Two. The game enables players to recreate the entire course of the war, from the opening Japanese attack on December 7, 1941 to the climactic Allied assaults in the closing days of 1945.

This Monster sized game simulates the conflict in the Pacific on a seven section map representing some 30% of the globe, across which cardboard playing pieces move and engage in combat through an hexagonal grid, which functions much like a chessboard in regulating movement.

Game components:

Rules booklet (56 pages)
Scenarios booklet (12 pages)
Two charts and tables booklets (16 pages)
3,200 die-cut playing pieces
Seven 22" x 34" colored soft map sheets
Playing aids, displays and cycle tracks
Air/Surface Tactical Display
Allied Air Display
Allied Game Turn/Cycle Record Track
Allied General Record Track
Allied Naval Task Force Display
Allied Off-Map Movement Display
Japanese Air Display
Japanese Game-Turn/Cycle Record Track
Japanese General Record Track
Japanese Naval Task Force Display
2 Dice
2 Plastic trays for playing piece storage
Errata (as of December 1978)

Level Of Complexity: Very High
Average Playing Time: 6 hours (Midway scenario) to 200+ hours




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Big B's Shipyard

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 18
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/9/2016 2:30:53 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

SPI games, including War in the East


Have many SPI games, including the two (I think ETO and PTO) that you can put together and play the whole war. Plans are to set them up when I retire. Need two rooms for the maps though.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 19
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/9/2016 8:47:07 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

SPI games, including War in the East


Have many SPI games, including the two (I think ETO and PTO) that you can put together and play the whole war. Plans are to set them up when I retire. Need two rooms for the maps though.



Only two?

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 20
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/9/2016 8:54:59 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

SPI games, including War in the East


Have many SPI games, including the two (I think ETO and PTO) that you can put together and play the whole war. Plans are to set them up when I retire. Need two rooms for the maps though.
warspite1

rustyi, if you want to play the whole war I would recommend World In Flames (WIF) instead. Pre-WIF I played the ETO and PTO and yes, they were really good games to play. However because of the scale, there are various amendments you have to make if you combine the games. However WIF has the advantage that it is designed to be played as the whole war and so there are no such fiddly things to attend to.

The other advantage with WIF is the counter content and detail - particularly for ships (where you play with every ship from light cruiser up (+ some "what-if" units too) and the air units which are all named and in excellent colour!


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 21
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/9/2016 9:59:48 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Was always interested in that game, but AFAIK there's no AI at the moment. Yes, I understand an AI opponent is not very accomplished, but... Not that I expect to find an opponent for the other game either, but if I have to play my head-to-head I'd rather do it on a board. BTW I own one rather good, if simple, solitaire game (I believe its by SPI). Its called Operation Olympic, which as the name implies, is the invasion of Kyushu. You play the Allies, who else. The rules for Japan are simple and straight forward... Banzai!!! Now where did I put that?

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 22
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/10/2016 12:21:50 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Was always interested in that game, but AFAIK there's no AI at the moment. Yes, I understand an AI opponent is not very accomplished, but... Not that I expect to find an opponent for the other game either, but if I have to play my head-to-head I'd rather do it on a board. BTW I own one rather good, if simple, solitaire game (I believe its by SPI). Its called Operation Olympic, which as the name implies, is the invasion of Kyushu. You play the Allies, who else. The rules for Japan are simple and straight forward... Banzai!!! Now where did I put that?

I enjoyed Operation Olympic, too. They did another solitaire game about the Battle of the Atlantic called 'Wolfpack' that could have been better.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 23
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/10/2016 9:21:42 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Was always interested in that game, but AFAIK there's no AI at the moment. Yes, I understand an AI opponent is not very accomplished, but... Not that I expect to find an opponent for the other game either, but if I have to play my head-to-head I'd rather do it on a board. BTW I own one rather good, if simple, solitaire game (I believe its by SPI). Its called Operation Olympic, which as the name implies, is the invasion of Kyushu. You play the Allies, who else. The rules for Japan are simple and straight forward... Banzai!!! Now where did I put that?
warspite1

Sorry I was not talking about MWIF the computer game. You mentioned setting the ETO/PTO boardgame up when you retire, and so I was referring to the boardgame version of WIF as a possible alternative.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 24
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/10/2016 10:43:54 AM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

This looks like a little cousin to SPI's "War in Europe". I managed to get several years into that monster. It filled the whole rumpus room. I can't remember if it was a jealous girlfriend or an over indulged cat that finished it off. I found that even with a whole room I had to chop the top half of the Scandinavian countries.

There is a computer version of War in Europe, if you didn't already know. Unfortunately no AI.


I played the original War in Europe on a couple of notice boards set up on trestles, in the early 1980s when I was in the army. I have played the computer version a few times. While I loved the scope and scale of the game, the ability for replay that computerisations gives just underlined the shortcomings of the game. In summary, while the convenience of the PC version made it more playable, I probably enjoyed the board game more, because everything was new and a risk.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 25
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/10/2016 9:43:28 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Was always interested in that game, but AFAIK there's no AI at the moment. Yes, I understand an AI opponent is not very accomplished, but... Not that I expect to find an opponent for the other game either, but if I have to play my head-to-head I'd rather do it on a board. BTW I own one rather good, if simple, solitaire game (I believe its by SPI). Its called Operation Olympic, which as the name implies, is the invasion of Kyushu. You play the Allies, who else. The rules for Japan are simple and straight forward... Banzai!!! Now where did I put that?
warspite1

Sorry I was not talking about MWIF the computer game. You mentioned setting the ETO/PTO boardgame up when you retire, and so I was referring to the boardgame version of WIF as a possible alternative.



That is an option. Is it still in print? Don't like buying used games as I've had problems in the past with things missing, etc. Even after I was assured they were complete.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 26
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/10/2016 9:50:39 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Was always interested in that game, but AFAIK there's no AI at the moment. Yes, I understand an AI opponent is not very accomplished, but... Not that I expect to find an opponent for the other game either, but if I have to play my head-to-head I'd rather do it on a board. BTW I own one rather good, if simple, solitaire game (I believe its by SPI). Its called Operation Olympic, which as the name implies, is the invasion of Kyushu. You play the Allies, who else. The rules for Japan are simple and straight forward... Banzai!!! Now where did I put that?
warspite1

Sorry I was not talking about MWIF the computer game. You mentioned setting the ETO/PTO boardgame up when you retire, and so I was referring to the boardgame version of WIF as a possible alternative.



That is an option. Is it still in print? Don't like buying used games as I've had problems in the past with things missing, etc. Even after I was assured they were complete.
warspite1

Oh yes!

http://www.a-d-g.com.au/

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 27
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/10/2016 10:19:50 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		I thought neither "Operation Olympic" nor "Wolfpack" were particularly interesting but (IIRC) "RAF" (Battle of Britian 1940) was a great solitaire game.

I ordered "War in the Pacific" early for some discounted price and ended up getting it something like 2 years later when my ship went to GITMO for refresher training. I don't even think I was assigned to that ship when I ordered it.
Kudos to the FPO.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 28
RE: OT: The mother of all wargames is impossible to play - 4/10/2016 10:31:58 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Was always interested in that game, but AFAIK there's no AI at the moment. Yes, I understand an AI opponent is not very accomplished, but... Not that I expect to find an opponent for the other game either, but if I have to play my head-to-head I'd rather do it on a board. BTW I own one rather good, if simple, solitaire game (I believe its by SPI). Its called Operation Olympic, which as the name implies, is the invasion of Kyushu. You play the Allies, who else. The rules for Japan are simple and straight forward... Banzai!!! Now where did I put that?
warspite1

Sorry I was not talking about MWIF the computer game. You mentioned setting the ETO/PTO boardgame up when you retire, and so I was referring to the boardgame version of WIF as a possible alternative.



That is an option. Is it still in print? Don't like buying used games as I've had problems in the past with things missing, etc. Even after I was assured they were complete.
warspite1

Oh yes!

http://www.a-d-g.com.au/


Now you've done it. Seriously, thanks. Was always interested in the game, but for one reason or another never bothered.

quote:

Five full-colour maps portray all the theatres of war: Europe, Russia, Africa, the Middle East, India, Asia, the Pacific, the Atlantic and (most importantly) Australia.


What's up with that? Just kidding. Don't want to get our Aussie friends annoyed.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 29
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