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Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/7/2016 5:23:56 AM   
wga8888


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/29/2010
From: Sachse, Texas USA
Status: offline 		I am in Dec 1941 and of course I have a good portion of my Soviet air groups with experience in the 30s. Will these groups eventually train to gain experience or should I disband them? With exepience so low, putting them into combat seems like a bad choice.

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RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/7/2016 5:20:45 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		they gain wxperience + morale in reserve

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Post #: 2
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/7/2016 5:26:34 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		im in de 41 in some games and have soviet units with morale and experience in the 90s 7 gaurds units already - key is setting the mission limits at 60 minimum 40 and launching night missions constantly

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Post #: 3
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/7/2016 10:38:02 PM   
Kel


Posts: 229
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann

im in de 41 in some games and have soviet units with morale and experience in the 90s 7 gaurds units already - key is setting the mission limits at 60 minimum 40 and launching night missions constantly


"Mission limits at 60 minimum 40" : could you give an example/ develop ?

Thank you !



< Message edited by Kelblau -- 4/7/2016 10:39:31 PM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 4
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/7/2016 11:06:48 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Read rule 16.4 in the updated game manual. Basically air doctrine tells your planes when to fly. if the ai decides you need 100% of the available planes planes for a successful mission it wont send planes up if it cant reach the number. Air units don't often have full strength. so I set mine to 60 that means itll fly the planes at 60% of whats required for mission success.. my planes fly even if I have only 40% available by setting the 40% minimum. As Russian you need to deal with overwhelming german pilot superiority and some devastating flak gunnery in the daylight so you need to use night attacks to build up kills - I did an attack in our game to show you an example. I launched 130 fresh/elite aircraft at your airfield in daylight and lost 85 bombers in 1 attack then I followed up with night attacks with minimal losses. if youre going to do daylight attacks then you need to clear the skies of enemy fighters first - that means fighter sweeps - launch airfield attacks using the shift key and select only fighter units these will force enemy fighters to intercept and you can smash them repeatedly ( only 3 attacks per airbase but as many sweeps as you want near an airbase. if you've overwhelming strength its great kills. Doing ground attacks works best on units that are overstacked ( especially with HQs ) and/or have just moved or fought - really good vs retreated units. just be wary if you hit in the day and get intercepted either sweep the area clear of fighters or turn to night missions. if you have less than 2000 kills by December theres a problem

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Post #: 5
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/7/2016 11:10:56 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		In the game were currently playing I have 6000 air kills - My Romanian pilots are the most skilled in my military below stuka pilots. that's 2800 ground kills 1000 air to air kills and 2200 ground attack kills. its a huge advantage to have that level of skill in a satellite force

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Post #: 6
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 5:25:04 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Here's an image of my Air force in Sept 1941, Turn 10 in one of my games.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 7
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 5:51:33 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Don't underestimate your air forces ability to inflict damage. If you're serious about defending its the only way to slow a concentrated attack.


Item Destroyed
Points Awarded
Per Man
1
Per Gun
5
Per AFV/Combat Vehicle
10
Per Bomber Aircraft
20
Per other Aircraft Type
10
Points are also awarded for damaging factories by multiplying the percentage of damage inflicted times the number of factory points of that type of factory in the target hex.
v1.05.42 - November 21, 2011
Changed the way air leaders receive win/loss credits. Now only elements destroyed/damaged/disrupted by air are counted. Damaged men divided by 2, disrupted by 10. Element value is the same - AFV 10, Guns 5, Inf 1 (Vehicles 1).

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Post #: 8
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 8:57:45 AM   
Kel


Posts: 229
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you Hermann, that's interesting.
So your basic settings are chance to fly 60% and the rest at default settings?

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Post #: 9
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 2:31:09 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		I use 60% minimum 20 to 40% based on my units readiness. I keep my air units fairly close to the front without endangering tem and position them opposite enemy spearheads - like I said it works best on enemy units in motion and if you catch a stacked HQ the whole efforts worth it - 1000 casualties per strike. Use the shift button and be creative don't just automatically attack. Watch the enemy he has to keep moving his air forward - when he does you hit his airbases and units in daytime strikes then pull yours back a bit. Each opponent is different. Theres no sense being miserable for 16 turns while the Germans pound you if you play the Air force creatively you can have fun and set yourself up for later. by spring 42 you will dominate the skies. Do a couple full combat reports and look at the ratio of damaged and disrupted units.

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Post #: 10
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 2:41:28 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		A very Important thing to remember is to focus your attacks on his ARMY airbases most players tend to stack them with Recon units and having high recon values helps them to find and exploit weak points in your defenses and gives them combat bonuses a lot of players concentrate armor and saturate the focal point of their advance with recon in the game I just showed I've killed 450 recon planes and effectively disrupted his ability to scout by air - the effect is very noticeable in that its caused failed attacks and an inability to exploit gaps in my lines.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hermann -- 4/8/2016 4:26:46 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 2:44:25 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I had some 20% more groups than used at any one time, 5-6 airbases far from the front under good general, and I constantly rotated worst beaten groups to reserve and to those bases, and again to reserve, until they returned to morale 60 (replacing them at the front with fresh groups from reserve). Each sending to reserve gives an air group +5 morale, and experience rises slowly automatically if it is below morale. So that's best way to build up better groups. Of course it's micromanagement through and through.

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Post #: 12
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 3:08:56 PM   
Kel


Posts: 229
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you men, that's great advice !

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Post #: 13
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 4:26:44 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Heres the Casualty list




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hermann -- 4/8/2016 4:28:34 PM >

(in reply to Kel)
Post #: 14
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 4:28:24 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		oops 1 more try too many screenies




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hermann -- 4/8/2016 4:29:35 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 4:48:49 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		you can see my focus on recon units - his air losses this turn were night attacks on his airbases. What I do is keep my bombers and transports on night missions so they cause partisan havoc. I leave some fighters on night to prevent resupply and protect ports. When I start my turn my tac bombers and fighters launch day attacks on units - if theres fighter resistance I switch to night and send the bombers after his airfields then go back to day missions and hit units again. if theres too much fighter resistance I bomb units at night. at the end of each turn I shift fighters and tac back to day and bombers and transports to night - you gotta be flexible every player is different. In this game ive got 4pza hitting Leningrad alone but with extra infantry ( 16 army is in the 18 army area. Hes cut the city off but his tanks are under constant pressure from the air and moving sluggishly I hold the river line east of Leningrad in force and the Northern front vs the Finns is stable. My troops in Leningrad are dug in heavily with 2 PVO fighter units in the city. 6 AA regiments in the Leningrad port, 3 mech units in reserve behind the line etc... In the center he concentrated ALL of AGC including both tank groups 4th and 9th Armies in the Smolensk Area and screened the rest of the front as far as Kiev with regiments. That attack was insane and it was air support that kept it in check. my Northern Airforce is holding Leningrad, Northwest Air force is basically on vacation Holding the river Novgorod to Demyansk the Western Air units are my strongest and most active vs these massed armor units. Its turn 11 and were fighting for Rzhev atm, Bryansk is safe for the moment. further south pressure is increasing as hes sending more infantry south to push back my screens. in the south he sent 1 pza straight into the crimea in force and then drove for Stalino. he screened the Dnepr Cherkassy to the bend with Romanians and concentrated 6, 17 and 11 armies along the Dnepr - Kiev to Cherkassy- played whack a mole as he kept popping over the river but hes now across in force with infantry. not a threat as ive got his armor tied up below the Dnepr bend under constant air attack from my southwest front air units in the Kiev area. In the crimea Ive held at perekop and retained Sevastapol - reinforcing by sea. and southern front air is protecting me successfully. as well as helping vs the armor south of the Dnepr bend.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 16
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 5:14:28 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		During the mud turns I put all my air forces into reserve and let em rebuild their morale for a few turns to prepare for the German final effort then reorganize them according to front conditions

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Post #: 17
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 5:33:30 PM   
hjones6464@yahoo.co.uk

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 11/6/2015
Status: offline 		Some good advice, but to many of the units with good kills are on SAD bases.

My preferance regarding SAD Airbases.

You just don't need them, so I only keep TWO, one with Moscow Air Command and one with Orel Air Command.

These I empty on Turn 12 or so.

Even if you build 8 air units a turn in August plus one airbase every 2nd turn, it takes a while to fill up the NON SAD bases you have.

I disband a few SAD airbases T1, then each time I get extra admin points, like T4 etc.

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Post #: 18
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 5:40:06 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		I like my SAD bases =(. Pretty sure they convert to SHaD when they get gaurds designation I always put my tac air assets into the sads though guess I need to look at that.

< Message edited by Hermann -- 4/8/2016 5:42:31 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 5:55:05 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
... only 3 attacks per airbase ...


Does this mean that the common house rules are that you can attack each airfield three times pr turn instead of three airfield attacks pr turn?

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Post #: 20
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 6:03:18 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Absolutely and the "house rule" is obsolete the last update made it mandatory after 3 attacks you can no longer attack an airbase or unit.

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Post #: 21
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 6:05:09 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Also remember that if you hold the shift key you can maximize the attacking units or select certain types for fighter sweeps etc... if its a day attack and you cant add fighters youre going to die in a horrible and gory manner so abort the the attack and do a night attack

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Post #: 22
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/8/2016 6:07:34 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		A day attack on a fighter base or nearby unit is specifically inteneded to draw out the enemy fighters the chance for success is low without high losses

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Post #: 23
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/9/2016 1:50:31 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Are you playing an experienced German player for these air attacks? I can pretty much stop everything a Russian can throw at an Airbase(recon or regular) in 41 with very high casualties to the Russians. Put an HQ with tons of AA stacked with 2 Air bases along with their CAP(on the correct settings) can pretty much down 50+ Russian fighters/bombers per attack easy to very minimal German losses. Even the Russians cannot sustain that loss ratio long per attack. I have had people try and quickly realize that airbase attacking is cost prohibitive.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann

A very Important thing to remember is to focus your attacks on his ARMY airbases most players tend to stack them with Recon units and having high recon values helps them to find and exploit weak points in your defenses and gives them combat bonuses a lot of players concentrate armor and saturate the focal point of their advance with recon in the game I just showed I've killed 450 recon planes and effectively disrupted his ability to scout by air - the effect is very noticeable in that its caused failed attacks and an inability to exploit gaps in my lines.





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Post #: 24
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/9/2016 2:25:31 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Actually I did the same thing to you before you surrendered big guy =). And No he isn't a super player but he's a solid player with an extremely high turn rate. Im at turn 90 against him as the Germans in the Stalingrad Scenario and he's been a very capable opponent. He's using the standard 3 panzergroup up the middle exploit which requires a great deal of skill and pulled of the Lvov pocket , encircled Leningrad, broke the landbridge and crossed the Dnepr on a wide front, and carried most of the Crimea by turn 11.
He's not Pelton but he knows how to handle his forces.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 25
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/9/2016 2:27:44 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		If you have the Gonadial fortitude I can set up a challenge any time and run an AAR showing me smashing you with my mighty Red air force.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 26
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/9/2016 3:06:17 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Surrendered? No I quit a game that I was going to actually win very easy. I like a challenge and when you retreated to 2 hexes outside of Leningrad around turn 7 or 8 I really didn't want to play any longer since I broke through that line easily. (this coupled with the rest of the fronts I knew it was over) So officially you could call it a surrender but by all means you were not going to win that game ;-P And "no" you didn't attack my airbases in that game since you retreated so fast. By the way we have played 4 times (2 of them under an older screen name of mine), Of these 4 games 3 you have resigned, 1 I resigned since in my opinion would have been an easy game. So we are even now ;-P All fun games and I mean no disrespect here just my recollection of events :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann

Actually I did the same thing to you before you surrendered big guy =). And No he isn't a super player but he's a solid player with an extremely high turn rate. Im at turn 90 against him as the Germans in the Stalingrad Scenario and he's been a very capable opponent. He's using the standard 3 panzergroup up the middle exploit which requires a great deal of skill and pulled of the Lvov pocket , encircled Leningrad, broke the landbridge and crossed the Dnepr on a wide front, and carried most of the Crimea by turn 11.
He's not Pelton but he knows how to handle his forces.


< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 4/9/2016 3:11:01 AM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/9/2016 3:18:23 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		I have no time now. I have purchased a new house and this is taking all my time to get my current house ready for sale & prepare for moving into the new house which will be completed end July/beginning of August. Not to mention I will be in Japan for vacation for 5 weeks in Sept/Oct. I had to resign (surrender as you call it :) ) 4 of my other games along with resigning yours :( So I respectively decline. Not to mention we have already played 4 times :)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann

If you have the Gonadial fortitude I can set up a challenge any time and run an AAR showing me smashing you with my mighty Red air force.


< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 4/9/2016 3:20:21 AM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/9/2016 4:02:09 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		And you keep winning damn you =)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 29
RE: Low Soviet Air Experience - 4/9/2016 7:52:44 AM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Are you playing an experienced German player for these air attacks? I can pretty much stop everything a Russian can throw at an Airbase(recon or regular) in 41 with very high casualties to the Russians. Put an HQ with tons of AA stacked with 2 Air bases along with their CAP(on the correct settings) can pretty much down 50+ Russian fighters/bombers per attack easy to very minimal German losses. Even the Russians cannot sustain that loss ratio long per attack. I have had people try and quickly realize that airbase attacking is cost prohibitive.


What do you mean with the "CAP"? How does it work and what is the "Correct setting"? Could you answer this or give an example?

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Post #: 30
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