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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/18/2016 7:51:08 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Yeah, and I think they will be operating in the Bay of Biscay next turn (M/A) as well.

So it looks like the CW has the Queens, TRS (4-4, 4-3). And a Dutch TRS somewhere?

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 241
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/20/2016 8:03:17 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		If USSR does not send many units to German border and Germany gets another impulse it might be possible that pact will be broken at the start of the next impulse.

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Post #: 242
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/20/2016 9:42:09 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		Germany takes land action, no air moves before land moves.

Rail moves: MECH from St-Malo to Warsaw, artillery from Paris to Warsaw and MIL from Amsterdam to Lodz.

I can do land moves and attack CW MOT.

If turn ends after this impulse (and only Germany can put reinforcements in 3 hexes of border), I would say breaking the pact depends on what kind of markers we draw. If I calculated right, Germany would be at 2:1 +3 garrison ratio before we draw markers.

Germany puts both markers to offence and moves highest marker from defense to offence. I'm so stupid I forgot to move one marker last time, there will be 2 point marker missing...

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 5/21/2016 6:09:07 AM >

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 243
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/21/2016 4:35:40 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		I hope the Japs move into Hanoi soon...

Concerning Spain, and assuming that Germany can not break the pact but is perpetually close in doing so...what will be your go time on Spain?...ie...if the above fails on the first impulse of M/A do you make the decision on Spain at that point?...or wait longer? Of course weather is a factor as well. No need to say here in this AAR...talk about it among yourselves...this is too important.

M/A in an important way is better than S/O in that if you get a bad weather roll from the previous turn (or impulse), your chances of good weather improve the next impulse (+ on the die roll = better possibility for good weather rather than the other way around). You probably already knew this, just reminding.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 244
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/21/2016 1:13:09 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I hope the Japs move into Hanoi soon...

Concerning Spain, and assuming that Germany can not break the pact but is perpetually close in doing so...what will be your go time on Spain?...ie...if the above fails on the first impulse of M/A do you make the decision on Spain at that point?...or wait longer? Of course weather is a factor as well. No need to say here in this AAR...talk about it among yourselves...this is too important.

M/A in an important way is better than S/O in that if you get a bad weather roll from the previous turn (or impulse), your chances of good weather improve the next impulse (+ on the die roll = better possibility for good weather rather than the other way around). You probably already knew this, just reminding.


I agree. If Germany doesn't get to break the pact in the first impulse of M/A, you must collapse Vichy and go for Spain. Don't think you can break that pact later in that turn, because you won't be able to do so. I would start moving the German units still in France as far to the south as possible, without collapsing Vichy of course. That will keep the Allies in the blind of what you want to do next.

_____________________________

Peter

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Post #: 245
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/21/2016 2:25:27 PM   
peskpesk


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Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Have not followed the Balkan politics so close and have no clue what forces are near by, but one option is also to declear war on Yugoslavia and aligning Rumania and setting the bulk of thier forces close to the USSR border IF this helps the garrision situation.

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"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

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Post #: 246
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 3:28:44 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		AllenK, tonight I check the situation. How possible breaking the pact would be etc. I decide my actions after that. Most likely I take land action to rail as many units as possible to Poland.

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Post #: 247
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 6:18:12 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Some questions in regards to the pact.

First, I would assume that the Axis will almost be assured of getting the last move this turn, especially if just Germany goes.

Secondly, do Italian units count for the garrison and is there perhaps an Italian unit that would help up the count a lot (assume the Italian mech or perhaps a air unit) that is available and can be railed someplace where it will count?

Thanks for all the hard work on this AAR. Very enjoyable.

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Post #: 248
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 6:36:46 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		I think only German (and aligned countries) units are counted. Someone one please tell us what rules really say...

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 5/23/2016 6:39:59 PM >

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Post #: 249
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 7:07:09 PM   
AllenK


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Joined: 2/17/2014
From: England
Status: offline 		I think the relevant parts from RAC are:

GARRISON VALUES
You only count the garrison values of your land and aircraft units (including those of your aligned minors) on the common border with the other major power.

EFFECT OF NEUTRALITY PACTS
After you enter into a neutrality pact with a major power, units controlled by other major powers on your side cannot enter hexes that are part of your common border with that major power if they are at war with that other major power.

At the moment Italy is showing as able to declare war on USSR as it does not have a pact with the Soviets. If it declared war, Italian units could not enter the common border area. While at peace, the units don't count towards the German garrison ratios as the Italian units don't belong to Germany (or one of Germany's aligned minors).

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Post #: 250
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 7:25:54 PM   
AllenK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

AllenK, tonight I check the situation. How possible breaking the pact would be etc. I decide my actions after that. Most likely I take land action to rail as many units as possible to Poland.


Okay.

Japan will try a long shot ground strike on the Nationalist stack east of Sian. If it came off, could get a decent odds attack. Elsewhere, Marines into Hanoi and that's about it.

Italy could extract either Inf Corps or Inf Div At gun from Africa (I'm inclined towards the latter as it's more BP's worth. That's about it other than railing another unit to France.


(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 251
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 7:34:25 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		Things are not looking good now. USSR managed to bring their bombers to border area and that saved them. If we don't count markers we are going to draw, then situation at the beginning of the next turn will be:

Germany: offensive garrison 44, USSR: defensive garrison 27. So Germany would need 10 points more from markers. That is not possible even if USSR draws 0.

And if we declare war on Yugoslavia (which is not possible, all borders are open) it does not solve this problem, there are some units Bessarabia and reinforcements in Odessa would be counted to garrison too.

I believe only option is to do Barbarossa 1941 and take Spain first. CW units sitting in Bayonne will cause some trouble.

Moving units to Yugoslavian border, taking Yugoslavia and Greece during summer 1940 would be easy but not even close as rewarding as taking Gibraltar. Doing this would allow Germany to align Rumania and move units there so that when Barbarossa 1941 begins there would be nice ARM spearhead ready to penetrate USSR lines.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 5/23/2016 9:51:07 PM >

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Post #: 252
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 7:48:21 PM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		Do you propose basically ignoring the Suez then since you are going for Gibraltar?

Not that I have seen a lot (I have not) but typically a push in Africa goes along with the action against Gibraltar.

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Post #: 253
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 8:17:52 PM   
AllenK


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From: England
Status: offline 		I think you are right.

Bayonne will be a problem. Choices are to screen it but that means advancing dependent upon one supply line, arranging what you can up against it and attacking before the DoW against Spain or DoW on Spain and the units becoming part of the Spanish defence. I don't like the third option. The first option needs six hexes along the Med coast to be covered to prevent invasions. The CW don't have Amphibs yet, so it would only be a Div invasion. CW doesn't currently have any available. They would have to be built.

I think I need to get the Inf Div back for a potential surprise invasion of Cartagena. Have Balbo and a fast moving unit ready to be sailed across next impulse as reinforcements. If the defence is all forward, it could be an open back door (or at least force the Allies to take units from the front to deal with it).

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 254
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 8:20:48 PM   
AllenK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Do you propose basically ignoring the Suez then since you are going for Gibraltar?

Not that I have seen a lot (I have not) but typically a push in Africa goes along with the action against Gibraltar.


Initial push in Africa would be west to capture Algeria and Morocco (both bits). Pushing east needs 2 CP's to keep supply going (always vulnerable and spreads the escort out thinner), west just needs a CP in West Med (still not easy but less to cover).

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Post #: 255
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 8:24:45 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Do you propose basically ignoring the Suez then since you are going for Gibraltar?

Not that I have seen a lot (I have not) but typically a push in Africa goes along with the action against Gibraltar.


Agreed. Don't pull Italian units out of that region. You need to put pressure on the CW on as many places you can get units into. With Wavell in France, you should be able to try to grab Egypt with the Italians...

Bayonne is no problem, the moment you have collapsed Vichy. And here's something else to consider: why not collapse Vichy now, when the turn hasn't ended? It gives you the Spanish resource for a turn in Germany. It's no use to keep pretending that you will go into the USSR anymore...

_____________________________

Peter

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Post #: 256
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 8:28:46 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		So we will go for Spain. Next turn I start railing units from Poland to Southern France. Italy need to send NAV's as high box as possible at first impulse of next turn to intercept escaping French ships.

This impulse: Germany takes Combined and makes a long shot try to hit convoys in North Atlantic (2 submarines to North Atlantic box 1)

No air moves before land moves.

No rail moves

(in reply to AllenK)
Post #: 257
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 8:38:43 PM   
AllenK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Do you propose basically ignoring the Suez then since you are going for Gibraltar?

Not that I have seen a lot (I have not) but typically a push in Africa goes along with the action against Gibraltar.


Agreed. Don't pull Italian units out of that region. You need to put pressure on the CW on as many places you can get units into. With Wavell in France, you should be able to try to grab Egypt with the Italians...

Bayonne is no problem, the moment you have collapsed Vichy. And here's something else to consider: why not collapse Vichy now, when the turn hasn't ended? It gives you the Spanish resource for a turn in Germany. It's no use to keep pretending that you will go into the USSR anymore...


This idea sounds good, although Wavell is no longer in France but on a transport in Biscay.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 258
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 8:40:23 PM   
AllenK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

So we will go for Spain. Next turn I start railing units from Poland to Southern France. Italy need to send NAV's as high box as possible at first impulse of next turn to intercept escaping French ships.

This impulse: Germany takes Combined and makes a long shot try to hit convoys in North Atlantic (2 submarines to North Atlantic box 1)

No air moves before land moves.

No rail moves


What say you to Centuur's idea about collapsing Vichy now? The Italian Nav, plus a couple of BB's and CA's are in the 2-box at the moment and are not disorganised.

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 259
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/23/2016 8:42:56 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		OK, we can do that. Move also west in Africa with TER/INF so that they are closer to Algiers when next turn starts.

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Post #: 260
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 3:56:30 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		I assume Vichy is not getting resources this turn from its colonies? What about the Syrian oil?

If you can get a head start on Spain by collapsing Vichy now, then do so...and if as Centuur wrote, you can benefit from it resource wise...assuming the answers to the above sentence are no.

I would contest Bay of Biscay and Western Med as strongly as makes sense (do not waste naval assets than can later be used to good effect from Gibraltar/Lisbon and/or Med).

Concerning your initial advance into Spain, have your MTN and PARA units ready. Assuming Spain has a forward defense, look for ways to put them OOS. You can probably keep the vast majority of your ARM/MECH in Poland...maybe have your ARM/MECH div's in case you have the off chance of being in a position for calling a blitz. Its going to be mountain and city fighting. I think the CW has a MIL and a GAR in Bayonne?...eliminate them only if you have to...if you do it right away (I know, it would be great to have two supply rail lines), it will give CW a chance to rebuild them and move them back into Spain somewhere else.

I agree with putting/keeping pressure on CW elsewhere so they cant focus everything on Spain. I don't mind giving up space in Libya up to near Tripoli, but I make the Allies fight for Tripoli and Tunis.

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 5/24/2016 3:58:49 AM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 261
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 4:57:51 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Vichy does not get resources from colonies, it is producing just 1 BP.

We can collapse Vichy by railing units there, right? Italy should collapse Vichy by railing a unit to Toulouse. I don't want to see CW troops sitting there too... And then we see where French fleet goes. Italian units in Africa can advance to west.

I would say we can collapse Vichy now. Next turn there might be CW fleet in West Med trying to sink Italians.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 5/24/2016 6:48:37 PM >

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 262
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 5:40:23 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		I assume you can overrun the Vichy fleet with a land unit?


_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 263
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 5:54:04 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I think you only need to enter Vichy? Last game when I was doing it I just entered Vichy and fleet was overrun.

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Post #: 264
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 6:12:46 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Just tested it, unit can be railed to Toulouse and fleet is overrun.

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Post #: 265
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 6:47:16 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		So, we go for Spain and collapse Vichy this impulse?

This impulse: Germany takes Combined and makes a long shot try to hit convoys in North Atlantic (2 submarines to North Atlantic box 1). All aborted submarines to Brest.

No air moves before land moves.

No rail moves

If Italian MIL is railed to Toulouse CW can't take it. It they get it, taking Spain is even harder...


< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 5/24/2016 6:56:17 PM >

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 266
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 7:31:35 PM   
AllenK


Posts: 7259
Joined: 2/17/2014
From: England
Status: offline 		Just wondering whether the Italian Mtn might be a good choice to rail to Toulouse, given it's in the mountains?

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 267
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 7:46:06 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Is MTN in city or port? Is if it is, MTN is perfect. If not, send MIL or some other unit. And send MTN next turn or start moving it this impulse.

(in reply to AllenK)
Post #: 268
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 7:52:04 PM   
AllenK


Posts: 7259
Joined: 2/17/2014
From: England
Status: offline 		Good point. It'll have to march somewhere like Marseilles. I'll rail the Mil across. The Mech in France can move towards Bordeaux.

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 269
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 5/24/2016 7:54:11 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Use move land action to move TER in Africa, it can move 4 hexes to west.

(in reply to AllenK)
Post #: 270
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