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RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY

 
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RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 8:31:44 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Punchy? Sorry that is new to me. Unless you offering a drink of punch?

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 661
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 8:35:53 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Punchy? Sorry that is new to me. Unless you offering a drink of punch?
warspite1

Sorry matey - your command of the English language is so good I sometimes forget I'm talking to a Swede. In this context:

Punchy = bold, aggressive


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 662
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 8:49:37 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

We get this line with three Soviet land moves.

Maybe USSR should demand the Borderlands after all. This leaves 2 land moves for the Finnish front.

And one upside if there is a war is that if Germany is distracted by Finland then there might be less pressure on CW.
warspite1

That's pretty punchy Ormster. Trouble is its not as simple as the next impulse. If the Axis luck continues then this will be another long turn with fine weather. Another lucky dice throw and the Communists, already in dire trouble, could be toast this turn.

Think too about our land throws. If the Soviets get unlucky (as per China and France) in Finland that could be game set and match. If I thought the Germans needed to make sacrifices to place PeaceKeepers in Finland I would probably (maybe) go for it, but they can place 2,3 or maximum 4 corps/Mil/Garr around Helsinki and the Soviets are not taking Finland any time soon - and will take losses in failing.


The Chinese Communists can indeed be toast. Not much we can do to stop it except moving the units to the best to our ability. As long as that is done then a war with Finland matter not. And if they are lost then more moves for USSR in Finland.

If they are lucky with a long turn then we have more impulses in Finland.

If we think we never will have any luck then we are doomed. I am thinking that luck comes and goes and we can not plan our game after it. Of course we can avoid risky attacks and so on. But now we are talking Grand Strategy and I do not think that we should let bad luck demoralize us so much that we alter our plans after it. If Germany and USSR take equal losses and Finland is conquered then I am a happy camper.

And getting 4 units to Finland will take, at least, some effort. They have two transporters so that is two units this turn.

I think killing Finnish units will have some worth even if we do not knock out Finland at once. Murmansk front should be secured.

But mainly I think we are letting Axis dictate this game. USSR can not attack Japan. The Chinese Nationalists can not do much because the attack weakness. CW is stretched to thin to do mischievous things to throw Axis off balance. Sure, they have seen the attack on Finland coming. But it forces them to react. At least it feels like we are doing something. US has enough markers in the entry pool, or at least I think they have enough. Allies have been playing it nice. I suggest that we stop being nice now.

What do you think about this?

Previously I thought 'wait and see until next impulse' but now I think we gain nothing by waiting. Just losing a couple of land moves.

But with all of this said I do not want to force you into it.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 663
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 8:52:35 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Punchy? Sorry that is new to me. Unless you offering a drink of punch?
warspite1

Sorry matey - your command of the English language is so good I sometimes forget I'm talking to a Swede. In this context:

Punchy = bold, aggressive


Yes. I've been trying to play a aggressive game. And currently it feels like I fail miserably. But I swear, I do try.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 664
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 8:55:34 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I am considering playing a combined with CW. Reinforcing the Bay of Biscay with ships and making all three land moves with the Spanish in Southern Spain.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 665
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 9:46:49 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

We get this line with three Soviet land moves.

Maybe USSR should demand the Borderlands after all. This leaves 2 land moves for the Finnish front.

And one upside if there is a war is that if Germany is distracted by Finland then there might be less pressure on CW.
warspite1

That's pretty punchy Ormster. Trouble is its not as simple as the next impulse. If the Axis luck continues then this will be another long turn with fine weather. Another lucky dice throw and the Communists, already in dire trouble, could be toast this turn.

Think too about our land throws. If the Soviets get unlucky (as per China and France) in Finland that could be game set and match. If I thought the Germans needed to make sacrifices to place PeaceKeepers in Finland I would probably (maybe) go for it, but they can place 2,3 or maximum 4 corps/Mil/Garr around Helsinki and the Soviets are not taking Finland any time soon - and will take losses in failing.


The Chinese Communists can indeed be toast. Not much we can do to stop it except moving the units to the best to our ability. As long as that is done then a war with Finland matter not. And if they are lost then more moves for USSR in Finland.

If they are lucky with a long turn then we have more impulses in Finland.

If we think we never will have any luck then we are doomed. I am thinking that luck comes and goes and we can not plan our game after it. Of course we can avoid risky attacks and so on. But now we are talking Grand Strategy and I do not think that we should let bad luck demoralize us so much that we alter our plans after it. If Germany and USSR take equal losses and Finland is conquered then I am a happy camper.

And getting 4 units to Finland will take, at least, some effort. They have two transporters so that is two units this turn.

I think killing Finnish units will have some worth even if we do not knock out Finland at once. Murmansk front should be secured.

But mainly I think we are letting Axis dictate this game. USSR can not attack Japan. The Chinese Nationalists can not do much because the attack weakness. CW is stretched to thin to do mischievous things to throw Axis off balance. Sure, they have seen the attack on Finland coming. But it forces them to react. At least it feels like we are doing something. US has enough markers in the entry pool, or at least I think they have enough. Allies have been playing it nice. I suggest that we stop being nice now.

What do you think about this?

Previously I thought 'wait and see until next impulse' but now I think we gain nothing by waiting. Just losing a couple of land moves.

But with all of this said I do not want to force you into it.
warspite1

I'll sleep on it.....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 666
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 10:27:27 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I'll sleep on it.....


That is all I can really ask for.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 667
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/26/2016 10:47:48 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Two cents from the cheap seats:

I don't think you can allow how lucky the Axis have been to dictate what you do (and don't do) strategy wise. Most any strategy will fall apart in the face of red hot dice from the other side. Many strategies look like genius if you have lady luck on your side. If you get to the point you are afraid to do something because of the other sides "luck" then you have pretty much lost the game from a player moral standpoint of view.

I am not advocating one way or another as far as Finland goes, but will point out that if the Russians do go, it does force the Germans to take different types of impulses than they perhaps normally would have if there was no war with Finland. How much of an impact that may or may not have in Spain remains to be seen, but I can't help but think it isn't going to be helpful for the Germans.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 668
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/27/2016 8:33:20 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Soviet moves:

Naval:
Kirov to Baltic Sea and picks up 1-4

Rail:
4-3 Cernauti to Novgorod

Land Moves:
3 x Commie moves you made in a previous post
Zhukov and 3-3 to (35,55)

I don’t think there should be an attack on Si-An.

Re-base:
Pe-8 to Novgorod
SB-2RK to south-east of Leningrad


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 669
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/27/2016 11:47:16 PM   
Protagoras

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 4/14/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Soviet moves:

Land Moves:
3 x Commie moves you made in a previous post
Zhukov and 3-3 to (35,55)



No No Move the Knight Move the Knight... the horsey thing the horsey thing!

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 670
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 4:56:57 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Soviet moves:

Naval:
Kirov to Baltic Sea and picks up 1-4

Rail:
4-3 Cernauti to Novgorod

Land Moves:
3 x Commie moves you made in a previous post
Zhukov and 3-3 to (35,55)

I don’t think there should be an attack on Si-An.

Re-base:
Pe-8 to Novgorod
SB-2RK to south-east of Leningrad


Can I take the liberty and send out a BB (Marat) instead? The cruiser always has the option of sailing later on since USSR will do combineds for a while longer.

----

Do not forget to replace the partisan hunters in Persia.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 671
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 5:24:16 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Soviet moves:

Naval:
Kirov to Baltic Sea and picks up 1-4

Rail:
4-3 Cernauti to Novgorod

Land Moves:
3 x Commie moves you made in a previous post
Zhukov and 3-3 to (35,55)

I don’t think there should be an attack on Si-An.

Re-base:
Pe-8 to Novgorod
SB-2RK to south-east of Leningrad


Can I take the liberty and send out a BB (Marat) instead? The cruiser always has the option of sailing later on since USSR will do combineds for a while longer.

----

Do not forget to replace the partisan hunters in Persia.
warspite1

I was only going to send one of the bombers, but now we are less concerned with the border, I can order the second bomber to Finland once an INF takes its place.

Re the Marat - no problem - but I cannot for the life of me think what difference it makes which one moves this impulse and which ones in the follow up. I am sure you can enlighten me.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 672
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 5:27:38 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		No real difference. But with the cruiser and division in port USSR has a tiny bit more flexibility. USSR can then opt to send out the division, or not. And we get to see how Germany place the Finnish units before we make the call. If we decide to go, that is.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 673
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 5:28:25 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

, I can order the second bomber to Finland once an INF takes its place.

And eventually the cavalry division. The best unit that USSR has.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 674
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 5:34:04 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

No real difference. But with the cruiser and division in port USSR has a tiny bit more flexibility. USSR can then opt to send out the division, or not. And we get to see how Germany place the Finnish units before we make the call. If we decide to go, that is.
warspite1

That explains it


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 675
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 5:38:26 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I'll just send you an email asking if you wanted to have a go at the sea search rolls.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 676
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 5:46:31 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		I haven't got it - but I'm quite happy for you to do it as I can blame you when we get surprised again......

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 677
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/28/2016 6:34:11 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I haven't got it - but I'm quite happy for you to do it as I can blame you when we get surprised again......

Just mailed it. I hope you find the time.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 678
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/29/2016 12:21:26 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		You can't blame the loss of Si-An totally on luck. The ChiComms abandoned the excellent defensive terrain in front of the city, thus giving the Japanese the chance to try their luck. Perhaps the Japanese attack the mountain hex and roll a '10' - but the Chinese would still hold Si-An.


You forgot to say Blub, blub, blub when you sank the Italian cruiser. Though perhaps you can save it for a real prize like one of their transports.


If you go into Finland, decide your War Aims in advance and play accordingly. I think MWiF increases Partisan chances somewhat and Finland can get them quickly, though more-so in the second year of war.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 679
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/29/2016 6:18:53 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

You can't blame the loss of Si-An totally on luck. The ChiComms abandoned the excellent defensive terrain in front of the city, thus giving the Japanese the chance to try their luck. Perhaps the Japanese attack the mountain hex and roll a '10' - but the Chinese would still hold Si-An.

warspite1

Well we can agree to disagree. This was right at the start of the turn; there was one throw and one throw only that would stop the attackers from being disorganised. There were 2 chances that the Japanese would be disorganised AND lose 2 units. Yes. I would say that is a pretty good defensive set-up and a very risky move by the Axis to try and take it - especially at the start of a turn. The odds heavily favoured the defenders who had three units in the city.

Yes, if the Chinese had not moved back and the Japanese threw the same result against the mountain, then Si-An would be facing the same attack next Axis impulse anyway - but already down 2 units....

If I did not move from the mountains - and the Japanese threw a low dice - genius! But equally if I did move and the Si-An attack failed - genius!

As said before, this is a 'dice' game and if you can't accept that sometimes the dice don't run for you then there is no point playing. That does not mean, human emotions being what they are, that such a result (for the second time against the ChiComms) does not hurt and results in a little 'disappointment' being vented on an Allied only forum.

But (M)WIF would not be the game it is without these talking points


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 680
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/31/2016 10:40:10 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Anyone want to bet on whether the USSR claim on the Borderlands is allowed or not?

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 681
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/31/2016 3:39:53 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Anyone want to bet on whether the USSR claim on the Borderlands is allowed or not?

I would bet not. Two US entry chits? The Axis doesn't know you have nothing but ones in the pool. (OK, an exaggeration. You have a few higher chits. You will of course pull those chits when you lose two chits. This is how WiF works.)

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 682
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/31/2016 3:48:30 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Indeed. But Germany, last turn, sent out loaded transports to the Baltic Sea. Prepared peace keepers. It could be that this was just an attempt to intimidate. Or it could be a sign of their intentions.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 683
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/31/2016 3:49:13 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

(OK, an exaggeration. You have a few higher chits. You will of course pull those chits when you lose two chits. This is how WiF works.)

Of course we would get to remove the best chits. Its the law.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 684
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/31/2016 4:17:09 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Claim Allowed:
Claim not Allowed: Orm, Courtenay

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 685
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 7/31/2016 6:53:59 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Claim not Allowed

_____________________________

"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 686
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 8/1/2016 1:10:04 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Claim Allowed:
Claim not Allowed: Orm, Courtenay, peskpesk

----

Three votes for 'not allowed' and all three got it wrong. So no winner this time. Except, maybe Finland, who stay out of the war.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 687
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 8/1/2016 5:41:42 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		The big winner is the USSR. No losses and both claims allowed.

_____________________________

"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 688
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 8/1/2016 6:06:13 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		It will also allow better response/movement for the Chi-Coms if the need arises.

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 689
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 8/1/2016 6:41:23 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

The big winner is the USSR. No losses and both claims allowed.

One winner is USA. And a minor victory for USSR. But I think that a war with Finland would have been a opportunity for a even bigger win. Conquering Finland secures the North flank. And at the same time destroy a lot of good Axis units.

So therefore it does not feel like a win.

One could even claim that Germany is a winner since they are now sure of aligning Finland at their convenience.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 690
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