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RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 9:56:53 AM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

That old ship had no priority at all.

Now that you reminded me I should, perhaps, change priority. Something to ponder on, at least.
warspite1

It was only in jest. You are right, in game terms the ship has no significance other than it is another Axis unit that would be better off dead - particularly as the Bay of Biscay and environs is going to become an incredibly hotter place very soon (it is already bomb alley). So please forget any ramblings of mine....

Now, where were we? Ah yes:

Sink the Bismarck!!!!

Note the two additional ! - this is now serious


Yes. The staff are now working on a plan. I assigned Commander Baldrick with the task.

The previous priority to keep the convoy safe is now scrapped.



< Message edited by Orm -- 9/11/2016 9:58:15 AM >

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 721
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 10:05:01 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

That old ship had no priority at all.

Now that you reminded me I should, perhaps, change priority. Something to ponder on, at least.
warspite1

It was only in jest. You are right, in game terms the ship has no significance other than it is another Axis unit that would be better off dead - particularly as the Bay of Biscay and environs is going to become an incredibly hotter place very soon (it is already bomb alley). So please forget any ramblings of mine....

Now, where were we? Ah yes:

Sink the Bismarck!!!!

Note the two additional ! - this is now serious


Yes. The staff are now working on a plan. I assigned Commander Baldrick with the task.

The previous priority to keep the convoy safe is now scrapped.


warspite1



Do I hear the unmistakenly upbeat tune in my head:

Cunning Plans are here again,
La La la la la,
La la la la la

Very good Ormster, I trust you will come up with a plan so cunning, you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel?


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 9/11/2016 10:06:05 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 722
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 6:04:56 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Just one tiny flaw to our plan. The die rolls.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 723
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 6:08:55 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Just one tiny flaw to our plan. The die rolls.
warspite1

Ho hum. Sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders and admit it wasn't meant to be......


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 724
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 6:17:46 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Just one tiny flaw to our plan. The die rolls.
warspite1

Ho hum. Sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders and admit it wasn't meant to be......


Indeed. But rolling tens for search rolls begin to feel tiresome.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 725
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 8:28:04 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		No Chinese moves?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 726
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 8:33:18 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I didn't see any needed. Most moves just disorganize the Chinese.

But if you see any Chinese you think needs moving then move it.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 727
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 8:49:23 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Shouldn't a white print unit go into Hawaii? or is that thinking old hat now?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 728
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/11/2016 9:02:46 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I think a white print is the norm, yes.

Are you worried that I only have one unit on Pearl Harbor?

I put a garrison on Midway since there are few US white prints at this stage.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 729
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 8:56:40 AM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Ormster I see we continued taking it at sea last night - fortunately the Luftwaffe performance at the end helped restore a bit of balance to proceedings!



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 730
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 8:27:06 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Ormster I see we continued taking it at sea last night - fortunately the Luftwaffe performance at the end helped restore a bit of balance to proceedings!



Indeed. But since there was no losses incurred on the German air it might be temporary. Hopefully we gained some time.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 731
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 8:28:12 PM   
Orm


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Status: offline 		So do you have a plan for every hex you want a unit in when Germany declare war?

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 732
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 8:39:20 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

So do you have a plan for every hex you want a unit in when Germany declare war?
warspite1

No. Not least because I am not convinced about what the Axis are going to do. As soon as Gib falls we will know so not long....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 733
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:17:19 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

So do you have a plan for every hex you want a unit in when Germany declare war?
warspite1

No. Not least because I am not convinced about what the Axis are going to do. As soon as Gib falls we will know so not long....


It is just that when you know for sure it can be tough to get all the units in place.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 734
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:19:31 PM   
Orm


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Status: offline 		Might be wise to send some reinforcements to the far east. The pact ratio will change soon. And if Germany plan to go for USSR then so might Japan. And Japan can shift focus way faster than USSR. Although aircraft can be transferred fast between Asia and the far east by removing them from the map.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 735
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:24:16 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		...and I will be good and say nothing about the attack on Gibraltar for the moment. My lips are sealed. But I suspect there may be plenty to say shortly......

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 736
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:28:23 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		For the benefit of my memory I post the Japan - USSR ratings needed to DOW. (Germany - USSR has a different ration during 'to DOW in '41)

One must have 4:1 in the common border in '40. 2:1 in '41. 1:1 in '42. 2:3 in '43 and finally 1:2 in '44 and '45)




_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 737
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:31:07 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...and I will be good and say nothing about the attack on Gibraltar for the moment. My lips are sealed. But I suspect there may be plenty to say shortly......

Unless they have some trick up their sleeve Gibraltar should survive this attack. Although any losses to defenders can spell the doom...

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 738
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:32:08 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Realistically when do you see the US as entering?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 739
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:34:29 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Realistically when do you see the US as entering?

When Axis declare war. And when that is I find it very hard to predict.

Although US plan to create a oil embargo against Japan soon. Preferably this year. Or maybe I should have said: Probably this year.

< Message edited by Orm -- 9/14/2016 10:35:42 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 740
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 10:58:18 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Well it looks like we have no resolution of the attack tonight.



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 741
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/14/2016 11:47:52 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well it looks like we have no resolution of the attack tonight.



No. It is close to 1 AM now in Finland.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 742
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 4:59:45 AM   
brian brian

 

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Status: offline 		Are you playing with some House Rule for a USSR<>Japan pact in place?

No one likes this advice, but if the Japanese attack in 1941 along with the Germans, and especially with Gibraltar lost, then in the Far East the Russians should just ... let the Japanese have it, for the most part. The Japanese can easily block the movement of the resources (Paratroopers, for one, or the Manchurian TERR zipping through their Home Country hexes) even before they take them and can also easily take Vladivostok with Shore Bombardment.

The war in Europe is far more serious. Specifically, the flanks of the USSR - the Caucasus front is magnified even more without Gibraltar, and the connection to the West through Murmansk and Archangel is also critical (British Infantry can help tremendously on that front). It is imperative to move as many factories away from the Germans as possible and to do that you will need rail moves and units to sacrifice to delay the speed of the German advance long enough to move the factories. Units facing the Japanese will accomplish little. I would maybe put a GARR in a citiy and keep a CAV in front of whatever Japanese try to advance towards Chita. Weather and the need for naval activity won't get them very far and then in 1942 the Russian CAV can return and start messing with the Japanese easily enough.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 743
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 7:50:23 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

For the benefit of my memory I post the Japan - USSR ratings needed to DOW. (Germany - USSR has a different ration during 'to DOW in '41)

One must have 4:1 in the common border in '40. 2:1 in '41. 1:1 in '42. 2:3 in '43 and finally 1:2 in '44 and '45)

warspite1

This comment assumes the Germans will turn on the USSR as soon as Gibraltar is taken of course.

The alternatives are:

1. Leave the minimum in Vladivostok and see what happens. Upside: US entry throw, minimal losses when attacked. Downside: Easy victory given to Japan.

2. Fully reinforce the Far East - three units in Vlad 3-4 in surrounding area + 3-4 units along the Manchukuo border to threaten. Upside: US entry throw, potentially more difficult (and expensive) to conquer, aids China. Downside: Those units are desperately needed in the west and WILL be missed. The losses will be expensive.

3. A sort of half way house that may or may not achieve the upsides and potentially lessen the downsides.

My preference (as I say, assuming that the Germans quickly turn East) is to go for No.1. Commit a very maximum of 5 Armies to the East and that is that.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 9/15/2016 8:06:47 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 744
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 9:43:30 AM   
Orm


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Status: offline 		Now that we have had a USSR - Japan pact we should take all the advantage we can get from it. Up till now Japan has been the primary beneficiary. It is worth a lot for USSR, and for the Western Allies as well, to have a secure Soviet Asia. I say that we send what it takes to uphold the garrison throughout 1941. That is if Germany turns towards USSR.

And if Germany does not turn eastwards then even more reason to place units in the East to put some pressure on Japan so that they must, at least, have some units in Manchuria/Korea.

Before the war with Germany aircraft can be used for garrison. Bad motorized units and other units that you do not want to lose. After the war the bad militia can be used and militia whose cities might be lost. And bad garrisons once rebuilt.

I say that this pact should only be allowed to be broken when we want it broken. Not a impulse before that.

Although with that said I think very few of the garrison units should be placed in the Vladivostok region. There are other cities both better used as offensive bases and as defensible positions.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 745
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 7:17:51 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Now that we have had a USSR - Japan pact we should take all the advantage we can get from it. Up till now Japan has been the primary beneficiary. It is worth a lot for USSR, and for the Western Allies as well, to have a secure Soviet Asia. I say that we send what it takes to uphold the garrison throughout 1941. That is if Germany turns towards USSR.

And if Germany does not turn eastwards then even more reason to place units in the East to put some pressure on Japan so that they must, at least, have some units in Manchuria/Korea.

Before the war with Germany aircraft can be used for garrison. Bad motorized units and other units that you do not want to lose. After the war the bad militia can be used and militia whose cities might be lost. And bad garrisons once rebuilt.

I say that this pact should only be allowed to be broken when we want it broken. Not a impulse before that.

Although with that said I think very few of the garrison units should be placed in the Vladivostok region. There are other cities both better used as offensive bases and as defensible positions.
warspite1

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 746
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 7:23:11 PM   
Orm


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quote:

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?
I suspect fairly low because I suspect Japan has better things to do with their troops.

But if Japan go all in I suspect that 20 points (probably less) will do the trick. That Japan could get more than 40 points in land and air I see as unrealistic.

But if they commit that kind of force against USSR you can imagine that damage they would do to USSR if they get the war. And do remember that you can use the worst units here. Obsolete aircraft and so on.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 747
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 7:30:02 PM   
Orm


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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Japan currently has a total of 27.5 points of land units on the map. Another 7 points in air units. If they empty the reserve pool and use carrier pilots to fly them then they get two more points.

So if Japan place all their on map units as garrison then they get 36.5 and then they do not have one unit in China except the warlords that can't leave.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 748
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 7:55:39 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?
I suspect fairly low because I suspect Japan has better things to do with their troops.

But if Japan go all in I suspect that 20 points (probably less) will do the trick. That Japan could get more than 40 points in land and air I see as unrealistic.

But if they commit that kind of force against USSR you can imagine that damage they would do to USSR if they get the war. And do remember that you can use the worst units here. Obsolete aircraft and so on.
warspite1

20 points is an awful lot - especially as that pretty much means 20 individual units (MTN aside).


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 749
RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY - 9/15/2016 7:59:53 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?
I suspect fairly low because I suspect Japan has better things to do with their troops.

But if Japan go all in I suspect that 20 points (probably less) will do the trick. That Japan could get more than 40 points in land and air I see as unrealistic.

But if they commit that kind of force against USSR you can imagine that damage they would do to USSR if they get the war. And do remember that you can use the worst units here. Obsolete aircraft and so on.
warspite1

20 points is an awful lot - especially as that pretty much means 20 individual units (MTN aside).


Would you rather have more than 40 Japanese units invading at the same time as Germany?

But the point is really if you want to fight a two front war or not. If you decide for not then I doubt that Japan will push it that far.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
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