warspite1
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The Run to the South
This opening phase of the battlecruiser clash is known as the Run to the South. Each fleet headed in a rough southeasterly direction line astern on a parallel course. The Germans were trying to deliver Beatty to Scheer, while Beatty probably started out believing he could destroy Hipper on his own, but when Scheer made his presence known, it became Beatty's turn to try and deliver both German fleets to Jellicoe (the Run to the North). Ultimately it may well have been the case that Beatty would have had to break off the engagement even if Scheer wasn't at sea due to the punishment his ships took in this opening phase. This was because, in that scenario, so long as Hipper kept Evan-Thomas and his 5BS at a distance, then he could control events until it was time to leave.
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today"
At 1548hrs Hipper ordered the signal JD "Jot Dora" the signal for fire to commence. It took just three salvoes for Lutzow's shells to begin straddling her opposite number and within minutes, Lion had been hit - more than once. Elsewhere, German gunnery was not much better than the British, but the Germans found the range much quicker no doubt aided by the following (from von Hase again and as detailed in Rules of the Game):
"The English battlecruisers had a decidedly unfavourable tactical position".
1. The visibility facing east was inferior to that facing west
2. Whereas the Germans' gun smoke was quickly driven by wind way over the ship, the westerly breeze was blowing the smoke from the English guns between them and us. As a result of this their view was often hampered.
3. At the same time British smoke hardly inconvenienced the Germans, for their precise stereoscopic range-finders could produce a result from the smallest speck of a masthead
Another breakdown in communication for the British... The plan was for both Lion and Princess Royal to target Lutzow, the German flagship, and all subsequent ships in the line would take the next one along - counting from the rear - thus all German ships would come under fire from at least one battlecruiser. Both Tiger and Queen Mary counted from the front and so targeted Seydlitz and Moltke, leaving Derfflinger unmolested by enemy shells for 10 minutes. Once again this was a mistake that had been made previously - by Tiger at Dogger Bank. It seems almost as if there was no de-brief after previous battles to ensure problems encountered were not eradicated for the next time......
Range-finding equipment
The British used two types of range-finders - the 9ft FQ2 and the 15ft FT24, with the latter being better suited to the longer ranges that naval battles were to be fought at as guns increased in size. All five Queen Elizabeth's had this version but by 1916 only one ship in the Grand Fleet had the FT24, HMS Orion.
One can only imagine what using one of these hand held coincidence range-finders must have been like in battle conditions and exposed to the elements. The German stereoscopic sight built by Karl Zeiss of Jena was a better instrument - certainly for finding the target in less than ideal conditions - although apparently was hard on the user's eyesight over time and less robust than its opposite number. For testing the ranges the Germans had a superior "ladder" system to the British - indeed the British adopted a variation on this shortly after the battle.
All in all there does not seem to be a huge difference in the sights used by each navy themselves, but as the British version was not as good in difficult conditions - and that is exactly what they faced in this opening part of the battle - the German accuracy was accordingly much better. When you factor in the magazine and cordite handling issues (potentially) then the result is as per below.....
The loss of HMS Indefatigable
Unless otherwise stated the source for these statements comes from Skagerrak.
1548hrs
Lutzow opens fire
1549hrs
The British began to return fire a minute after Lutzow's opening salvo. Staff states that the British ships at first could only fire from their forward guns - further evidence that the deployment and the turn to the eastsoutheast was left far, far too late.
1550hrs
The first in a series of hits is achieved against HMS Tiger by Moltke (although apparently the first hit the German crew records is not until 1606hrs)
1551hrs
Lutzow scores a hit near Lion's bridge with her fourth salvo.
Moltke finds her target once again, although again causes no serious damage to Tiger.
1552hrs
An armour piercing (AP) shell from Lutzow hits the base of Lion's funnel
Strangely, given that Derfflinger was not targeted in the first ten minutes, her shooting was initially disappointing. Only now does she achieve her first straddle against Princess Royal
A third hit for Molke. Fortunately for Tiger, at this stage the hits have not been serious
1553hrs
Moltke again strikes the unfortunate Tiger
1554hrs
A fifth shell from Moltke finds its target. This hits A-turret's barbette, although the turret continues firing. Note: Jellicoe Jutland The Unfinished Battle refers to this hit as being on Q-turret, although he too states that the three turrets A, Q and X were hit around this time.
1555hrs
Queen Mary lands a shell in Seydlitz's starboard switch room and turbo-dynamo room
Tiger receives a sixth hit from the remarkably accurate Moltke - what is particularly remarkable here is that Moltke remember is under fire from two British ships. A seventh shell then strikes Tiger and more serious damage is caused. Q-turret is temporarily put out of action and the turret was to fire only intermittently for the rest of the battle
Beatty now gives the order "Increase the rate of fire"....
1556hrs
Moltke hits Tiger's X-turret putting this out of action - like Q-turret the effect was temporary, but when repaired, the turret subsequently fired 19 degrees off target
1557hrs
Beatty orders a 2-point turn to starboard to increase the range. Apparently at least some of the German ships (Seydlitz amongst them) are able to make use of their secondary armament. There is no mention of the British using theirs at this time. This causes some of the destroyers to fall out of position and, in an attempt to get back into the van, they sail up the engaged side of Beatty's ships further compounded the visibility issues that have hampered the British.
Seydlitz is hit for the second time by Queen Mary - this time the shell penetrated Caesar turret, burning it out completely. The order is given to flood the magazine
1558hrs
It took Lion 9 minutes before she straddled Hipper's flagship, but then scored two hits in quick succession, neither of which caused the much damage
Derfflinger obtains her first hits, striking Princess Royal with AP shells twice. These temporarily put the fire control tower out of action, with one detonating in a coal bunker.
Back to Tiger and a ninth shell strike that could have been fatal. As it was the hit caused the midships 6-inch magazine to be flooded, but it could have been worse as this shell just missed Tiger's main steam pipe - a hit on which would have disabled the ship. It's seems incredible that all during the run to the south and then the run to the north, none of the ships on either side were disabled or sufficiently slowed that they were "gobbled" up by the chasing pack.
1559hrs
Hipper orders a 1-point turn to port thus further increasing the range.
1600hrs
A shell from Lutzow finds Lion's Q turret, a hit that could easily have been the end for HMS Lion and David Beatty. A semi-AP shell struck Lion's Q-turret right between the face plate and the roof. The front of the roof plate was taken clean off. The occupants of the turret were killed as well as most of those in the chamber below. Only the quick thinking of the Royal Marine turret officer Major Francis Harvey saved the ship from a cataclysmic magazine explosion when he ordered the magazine doors closed and flooding of the magazine (see post 112). I think this eyewitness account says much to convey the picture:
....the armoured roof of Q-turret had been folded back like a sardine tin; thick yellow smoke was rolling up in clouds from the gaping hole, and the guns were cocked up in the air awkwardly. All this happened within yards of where Beatty was standing and none of us on the bridge heard the detonation. The destructive power was enormous but, oddly, in the maelstrom of the battle, completely unregistered on the bridge.
Derfflinger scores a hit on Princess Royal's B turret.
1601hrs
According to Staff two further hits were recorded against HMS Lion at this time
1602hrs
After dishing out so much punishment, Moltke is finally hurt - a shell near-missed and the damage caused some flooding forward on her starboard side
1603hrs
Another hit is recorded against Lion
At the rear of the two columns it seems that there is no individual record of the hits inflicted on HMS Indefatigable by Von der Tann. However, the fire ranged against the British battlecruiser was incredibly accurate and indeed was so intense that the Germans had trouble making out the ship at one point due to the maelstrom of smoke, water and battle damage. It was however at this time that the British suffered their first loss of the battle. According to observers, two or three shells hit Indefatigable in or around the rear turret and an explosion was seen (note: it has recently been shown by underwater mapping of the wreck that this was no small explosion (see below)). It was said that Indefatigable was seen to swing out of line - perhaps given the new evidence, this was not a voluntary movement, but was the blast from the hits on the turret that tore the ship in two. She then was seen to roll over as another series of shells hit her forward turret - followed by another huge explosion. Out of a crew of 1,019 just two survived. Von der Tann had not been hit once.
A recent underwater expedition located the wreck of all 25 ships lost at Jutland. The only one whose final resting place was appreciably different to that given in John Harper's (Chief Navigational Officer) charts (more of which anon) was Indefatigable. As a result of the expedition's findings they think they know why. The ships is recorded as being lost when she blew up (as in the picture). The eyewitness accounts assume she was whole at that time. But the stern of the ship was blown clean off some 5-6 minutes earlier, and a shock wave travelled through the remaining section of the ship likely killing almost everyone on board. The shell of the battlecruiser was then carried by her momentum alone before another huge explosion sent her to the bottom.
The loss of HMS Queen Mary and the arrival of the 5th Battle Squadron
The folly of Beatty's deployment had started to become apparent. Whatever the rights and wrongs and who was to blame for the delayed turn of the 5BS, Evan-Thomas had been sailing toward the battle at top speed ever since.
The lead ship, Barham, had been in position to fire, albeit at considerable distance, at the II AG as early as 1558hrs - although to no effect, and the II AG quickly turned away to the northeast under smokescreen. This however was not where their 15-inch shells were needed.
1605hrs
HMS Lion sheers out of line - no doubt while emergency work is carried out to deal with some of the fires and damage. Princess Royal assumes her place in the van.
Tiger is hit forward by a shell from her tormentor Moltke
Von der Tann is said to have been hit twice by Tiger here but no timing given or damage report
1606hrs
Too late by a matter of minutes (as a far as the Indefatigable is concerned) HMS Barham is finally in position to range her guns against Von der Tann. Very soon the whole squadron were able to fire and the lead two battleships - Barham and Valiant - turned their attention on Moltke, while Warspite and Malaya concentrated their efforts on Von der Tann.
1609hrs
Amazingly it is only now that Von der Tann is seriously hit for the first time and she is lucky that damage to her rudder, caused when a shell penetrated her armour aft and exploded sending shock waves through the area, freed itself. 600 tonnes of water enters the battlecruiser. Jellicoe states this took place at 1612hrs and was caused by a shell from the Barham.
1615hrs
Two shells hit the Lutzow in quick succession - both from Princess Royal. One of these lands between A and B turret wiping out the forward dressing station.
1616hrs
Moltke receives a 15-inch shell from Barham that destroys one of the casemated secondary guns and its crew and continues into a coal bunker where it explodes.
1618hrs (1617hrs)
Queen Mary hits the Seydlitz again, this time one of the starboard casemates is penetrated by a shell that kills the crew (less one crewman) of one of the secondary guns.
1620hrs
A shell from Moltke passes through one of Tiger's funnels
The crew of Von der Tann must have felt much as those of Indefatigable felt as she disappears in a hail of water. Her A-turret is hit and put out of action (I thought Germans called their turrets Anton, Bruno, Caesar and Dora but here the turret is called Alsen).
1621hrs
Queen Mary loses one gun in Q-turret courtesy of a shell from Seydlitz. She had previously taken a hit in the aft 4-inch battery, although no time for this is given.
1623hrs
Moltke is hit again, causing some limited flooding
Von der Tann loses another turret - Culm. The battlecruiser is now down to two working turrets - the two amid-ships. Even so she is still capable of causing trouble for the British and she delivers a shell on Barham against her belt armour.
1624hrs
Two further hits are taken by HMS Lion. Staff states that up to this time, nine shells hit HMS Lion since the start of the battle. Of these, no less than four had failed to explode. The British were not alone in having problems with their shells. Jellicoe states three shells are landed at this time - and this number would take Lion up to the nine hits recorded by Tarrant (see below).
1626hrs
At this time both Seydlitz and Derfflinger were targeting Queen Mary. Seven shells in two salvoes were seen to strike the British ship, following which she literally disappeared in a cloud of smoke. There were [20] survivors and [1,266] officers and men were killed. [Amazingly wide variance in the number of casualties]. To convey the scene I will quote from Derfflinger's gunnery officer Hase:
The Queen Mary was firing less rapidly than we were but usually full salvoes. I could see the shells coming and I had to admit that they were shooting superbly. As a rule, all eight shells fell together, but they were almost always over or short....but the poor Queen Mary was having a bad time. In addition to the Derfflinger, she was being engaged by the Seydlitz.... at 4.26 she met her doom...First a vivid red flame shot up from her forepart. Then came an explosion forward, followed by a much heavier explosion amidships. Black debris flew into the air and immediately afterwards the whole ship blew up with a terrific explosion. A gigantic cloud of smoke ros, the masts collapsed inwards, the smoke cloud hid everything and rose higher and higher. Finally nothing but a thick, black cloud of smoke remained where the ship had been. At it's base, the smoke column covered only a small area, but it widened toward the summit like a monstrous pine tree.
Moltke recieves the second of three hits that causes flooding
Von der Tann hits New Zealand, temporarily affecting her B-turret.
1627hrs
Princess Royal is hit near Q-turret (why always Q-turret?) but the turret remains operable.
A third hit on Moltke. The three hits in quick succession allow 1,000 tonnes of water into the ship and she takes on a 3 degree list. Counter-flooding is ordered to right the problem.
1628hrs
Aboard Beatty's flagship, in a frightening spectacle of the fate that would have befallen the battlecruiser had it not been for the quick thinking of Major Harvey, a cordite fire in Lion's Q-turret causes an explosion, and the huge fireball, taking the path of least resistance, flies up into the sky through the open turret roof.
1629hrs
A shell passes through Princess Royal's second funnel but fails to explode
1630hrs
Two shells from Moltke land on Tiger in quick succession. The shells hit the side armour but fail to detonate.
1632hrs
Princess Royal receives a third hit in quick succession - this time A-turret is put out of action for about 11 hours
1635hrs
It's the turn of Seydlitz to hit Tiger, with another hit forward that does little damage
Von der Tann loses her last but one gun when turret Bautzen refuses to operate.
1638hrs Hipper orders a turn to SSE to open the range, before turning toward the British once more three minutes later.
During this period torpedoes were fired, with no effect, by Lion (two) and Moltke (four) and possibly others.
The Invincible and Indefatigable were older ships - amongst the first battlecruisers built. But HMS Queen Mary was only 3-years old and truly a front line vessel. She, like Lutzow for the Germans, was the most important ship lost on her side
Summary of the fighting during the Run to the South
In Jutland The Unfinished Battle Jellicoe quotes from Tarrant's Jutland The German Perspective and states that the hits received were:
British: 44
German: 17
Totalling the hits in Staff's Skagerrak and repeated above (ignoring the near-miss that damaged Moltke and taking Tarrant's 5 hits on Indefatigable) the totals are:
British: 43
German: 18
I will look through the other sources I have to see where the differences lie (if I can) but if not, then the hits produced by each side is not very different when comparing the two sources and gives a clear indication of the superiority held by the Germans at this stage. What we can not know is exactly why that was.
German (as well as British) sources have confirmed that visibility was in the Germans favour at this stage of battle and that the dark grey British ships were easier to see than the German light grey ones.
It also appears that the German range-finding equipment was better - at least in the early stages of a battle, before the greater strain on eyesight caused the German method to lose effectiveness. The Germans also had a better "ladder" method of measuring the fall of shot.
The loss of two battlecruisers can - as much as anything is certain about this battle - be put down to poor magazine and cordite handling.
The recent experiment carried out (mentioned in the book thread) that tested Queen Mary's hull against all the hits Seydlitz received during the entire battle, confirmed that she would not have sunk had it not been for the magazine explosion. Similarly HMS Tiger took 12-14 hits without being sunk. These facts support the naval historian Norman Friedman's assertion that without the magazine and cordite handling issue it is unlikely the British would have lost any battlecruisers at Jutland.
Of course in addition to receiving hits and being able to take them and the ability to land hits on the enemy, there is also the matter of the shells themselves and how effective they are. We will look at this after the battleships clash. At this time we will also look more closely into the faulty magazine and cordite handling process, what exactly that means and whose fault was it that it was in place.
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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 6/5/2016 7:53:50 AM >
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RE: A look at The Battle of Jutland 100 years on - 
I'm glad they too are concentrating on the important points....
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