RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick

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RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/25/2016 11:25:11 PM

Nimrod 9th

Posts: 140
Joined: 9/28/2012
From: Central MO
Status: offline

Started the upgrade process. Got a message my Symantec Endpoint Protection was incompatible so I stopped the upgrade. Anyone got any insight into that issue? I'd like to keep my Symantec because I get it free through my employer.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 31

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/25/2016 11:58:27 PM

VPaulus

Posts: 3630
Joined: 6/23/2011
From: Portugal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

What it means is that it isn't the software, it's the hardware.

I don't have to google anything to understand that.

It can be the hardware, it can be the software and it can be both...
Some users will be able to upgrade without experiencing any issue, some won't. It was always like this and it isn't different with Windows 10. In fact, it's always better to do a clean installation. That has been the golden rule with any Windows version.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nimrod 9th

Started the upgrade process. Got a message my Symantec Endpoint Protection was incompatible so I stopped the upgrade. Anyone got any insight into that issue? I'd like to keep my Symantec because I get it free through my employer.

You'll have to update your Symantec Endpoint version. Does the company who you work for has any IT department?
You should ask them about this.

< Message edited by VPaulus -- 5/26/2016 12:01:38 AM >

(in reply to Nimrod 9th)

Post #: 32

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 12:43:35 AM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VPaulus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

What it means is that it isn't the software, it's the hardware.

I don't have to google anything to understand that.

It can be the hardware, it can be the software and it can be both...
Some users will be able to upgrade without experiencing any issue, some won't. It was always like this and it isn't different with Windows 10. In fact, it's always better to do a clean installation. That has been the golden rule with any Windows version.

I've never had software that failed to run. I had one game, Shogun Total War, that would freeze during a battle. Which was a hardware problem. (New video card fixed that one.) Same with Red Baron for my Amiga 1000. It was a slide show.)

That was also a hardware problem (Not enough memory.)

Sure, you can get bad software. But if it works on machine A, but not B, I'd look at the hardware.

For me, 10 worked on machine A, (AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb Quad-Core.), and machine B, (4 core Intel 6600K)

And yes, clean install. Always :)

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 5/26/2016 12:47:36 AM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 1:34:01 AM

VPaulus

Posts: 3630
Joined: 6/23/2011
From: Portugal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

And yes, clean install. Always :)

Wise decision.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 34

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 5:36:03 AM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nimrod 9th

Started the upgrade process. Got a message my Symantec Endpoint Protection was incompatible so I stopped the upgrade. Anyone got any insight into that issue? I'd like to keep my Symantec because I get it free through my employer.

quote:

Symantec Endpoint Protection

http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/windows-10-upgrade-what-means-your-endpoint-security

(in reply to Nimrod 9th)

Post #: 35

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 5:41:04 AM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
What it means is that it isn't the software, it's the hardware.

Actually it is their software not running with my hardware (a three year old computer). Meanwhile, Windows 7 is perfectly functional and I see no pressing need to upgrade.

But you seem to be suggesting that solely because Microsoft wants me to upgrade to Windows 10, I need to upgrade my computer? Is that it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
Didn't happen to me. Ever. Even with the old hardware.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
I had one game, Shogun Total War, that would freeze during a battle. Which was a hardware problem. (New video card fixed that one.) Same with Red Baron for my Amiga 1000. It was a slide show.)

That was also a hardware problem (Not enough memory.)

OK, didn't happen to you ever, other than twice, which you fixed with hardware upgrades.

Meanwhile Win7 and the desktop it runs on work perfectly well and I see no need to upgrade my desktop's internal WiFi receiver just for the benefit of running Win10.
I really don't understand what point you're trying to make...I've already said that I like Windows 10, I've upgraded one computer with no problem, but it did not work with one computer, even though you have never had a problem...so what?

< Message edited by 76mm -- 5/26/2016 5:49:11 AM >

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 36

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 1:01:47 PM

Franciscus

Posts: 809
Joined: 12/22/2010
From: Portugal
Status: offline

In light of this ongoing discussion, I found this piece of news from today both hilarious and enlightening:

"the (US) Department of Defence systems that co-ordinated intercontinental ballistic missiles, nuclear bombers and tanker support aircraft "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks".
"This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," Pentagon spokeswoman Lt Col Valerie Henderson told the AFP news agency."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36385839

Nevertheless they are considering to upgrade in 2017. But I doubt they will use Windows 10

I own an iMac and IMHO OSx is a far superior OS than any windows version. Apple's upgrades and new versions are free, not imposed in any way, and just work.

I have a dual boot configuration with Windows 7, just for games (that unfortunately continue with their Microsoft enslavement). Fortunately Apple considers my iMac from 2011 (with an i7 CPU, 32 Gig RAM, 2TB HD, etc), "not compatible" with Windows 10 and took care automatically of wiping out windows 10 upgrade adware. I am very thankful to Apple for it

Regards

< Message edited by Franciscus -- 5/26/2016 1:06:01 PM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 1:07:54 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

In light of this ongoing discussion, I found this piece of news from today both hilarious and enlightening:

"the (US) Department of Defence systems that co-ordinated intercontinental ballistic missiles, nuclear bombers and tanker support aircraft "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks".
"This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," Pentagon spokeswoman Lt Col Valerie Henderson told the AFP news agency."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36385839

Nevertheless they are considering to upgrade in 2017. But I doubt they will use Windows 10

I own an iMac and IMHO OSx is a far superior OS than any windows version. Apple's upgrades and new versions are free, not imposed in any way, and just work.

I have a dual boot configuration with Windows 7, just for games (that unfortunately continue with their Microsoft enslavement). Fortunately Apple considers my iMac from 2011 (with an i7 CPU, 32 Gig RAM, 2TB HD, etc), "not compatible" with Windows 10 and took care automatically of wiping out windows 10 upgrade adware. I am very thankful to Apple for it

Regards

Thank you for sharing this.

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(in reply to Franciscus)

Post #: 38

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 1:09:13 PM

Yogi the Great

Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

If a program worked on a computer before Win 10 but has problems after and needs correcting by hardware upgrades is it really a hardware problem?

My wife is big into crafting and sewing. Yes high end sewing machines that cost as much as some new cars computerized and with large software programs and connected with home computers. Like gamers they have had many problems when converting to Win 10. Machine and program experts have issued warnings that they should not do so. Zakblood and many others of you are much more of computer experts than I am but I understand that one of the problems can be that Win10 puts so many things on the computer and uses so much memory that many of the computers that are "upgraded" to 10 just can't handle it.

I am running 7 with no problems and see no reason to run the risk of converting the system. I have no desire or enough computer talent to have to do hardware upgrades and/or having to fix, delete, change, "clean" install, and/or any other computer tech actions to make it work should there be problems. I'm not saying no to Win 10 but I think I may wait until I buy a new great powerful gaming computer that comes with it already installed. In the mean time my computer is working great with the games and the old saying if it isn't broke don't fix it sounds like it just may apply here.

Added edit: The dirty trick of installing it onto computers by trickery, hard to find information and/or saying people should have seen and remembered a posting from the past is just plan unethical. No one should have to turn their computer on and find out it is now windows 10 when they didn't want it.

< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 5/26/2016 1:22:33 PM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 1:26:22 PM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline

windows 10 in fact has a better memory management use than any previous version, it will use what you give it, i run it on 2gb pc, a 4gb pc's 8gb and 16gb for my main test pc, and a 32gb pc for my main gaming rig... so if it works on xp and up, it will almost certainly run win 10.

Here's what Microsoft says you need to run Windows 10:
Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster.
RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
Free hard disk space: 16 GB.
Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver.
A Microsoft account and Internet access.

so while it boots faster, i use SSD's mostly, but have got some raptor drives as well standard 10k and a 15k version still in use, when these go i won't have any more HDD's and all will be SSD.

reasons for me to use it, is ease of use, loading time from a fresh image is 12 to 20 mins from a network image off a SDD onto another SDD, images have updates pre installed and some software as well, so not standard release version, just slip streamed them myself and have one for each pc on network stored.

to re image a drive can take with error checking twice as long, but well worth the effort imo.

for those of us who wish to use the latest version of DRX 12.1, win 10 is our only option as well

quote:

if it isn't broke don't fix it

and that's great advice as well, i'd never say upgrade for the sake of it, it's not like a car that you need just to show off to next door, it has to be functional and do everything you need, so agree with thread starter, bad move from M/S forcing others to use it, and there's already enough bad misinformation to put plenty off, without M/S giving other more ammo to fire

(edited) spelling and typos a plenty

< Message edited by zakblood -- 5/26/2016 1:28:53 PM >

(in reply to Yogi the Great)

Post #: 40

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 1:38:01 PM

stuart3

Posts: 193
Joined: 9/4/2014
Status: offline

Yes, Windows 10 only needs 2 GB to run itself, but if that 2 GB plus the memory used by Yogi the Great's wife's sewing machine software and data files, plus that used by his anti-virus, plus anything else running in the background exceeds the RAM installed on his machine, then he will have memory problems.

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 41

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 3:12:00 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

Here's what Microsoft says you need to run Windows 10:
...
A Microsoft account and Internet access.

Windows 10 won't run without Internet access??

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Post #: 42

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 3:31:43 PM

stuart3

Posts: 193
Joined: 9/4/2014
Status: offline

This is from a Microsoft Community Wiki article -

"Will I need to be connected to the Internet in order to use Windows 10?

Windows 10 does not require an active Internet connection for everyday use. It works just fine offline and you can do everything you would normally do in Windows 7 or earlier."

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 43

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 3:44:31 PM

Hattori Hanzo

Posts: 734
Joined: 3/21/2011
From: Okinawa
Status: offline

I DO NOT want to ugrade to Windows 10 my old game-computers and I DO NOT want to be forced to do it by sneaky trick

the Microsoft behaviour is as usual unethical.

(in reply to stuart3)

Post #: 44

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 5:14:45 PM

Qwixt

Posts: 902
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

I own an iMac and IMHO OSx is a far superior OS than any windows version. Apple's upgrades and new versions are free, not imposed in any way, and just work.

Regards

Not imposed in anyway, but support is dropped very soon for older versions, and new stuff only works on the newer version. But it's not imposed in any way

(in reply to Franciscus)

Post #: 45

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 5:20:32 PM

Qwixt

Posts: 902
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

I have the win 10 pro version, which is a requirement to disable some stuff, and I have disabled all the stuff people complained about. Mine does not automatically update. I have remove cortana. Disabled mobile features, etc... Most of it was fairly easy and done through the windows UI. Cortana removal was the only feature that needed some "extra" work. But even that was simply take ownership of folder, then move folder.

I would still advise sticking with Win 7. I do like some of the improved features of win 10 though.

(in reply to Qwixt)

Post #: 46

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 5:24:02 PM

zakblood

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Joined: 10/4/2012
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not very true either as pointed out early in the thread, Apple were the first O/S maker to auto without permission an update that couldn't be cancelled or stopped, as it' was a silent one

and yes while OSX is a great O/S, it's got there from being less user friendly than windows, just look at the sales of the 2 and compare.

i'll quote a 2012 quote now, so not upto date but most will understand the whole picture from the post and share,

quote:

Microsoft Sells More Windows 7 than Every Mac, iOS, and Android Device Combined

so in 2012 Microsoft sold 525 million Windows 7 licenses upto then.

so,

quote:

Since...October, 2009, Apple has likely sold about 35 million Macs, possibly 250 million iOS devices, and Google has seen almost 250 million Android activations.

so doing the maths, adding the later years and sales v's revenue data, nothing much has changed with later versions either.

1 billion devices in two to three years is an easy goal and more than near it's targets and figures it needs already to meet and surpass that...

(in reply to Qwixt)

Post #: 47

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/26/2016 9:20:34 PM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwixt
Not imposed in anyway, but support is dropped very soon for older versions...

Well, just to be clear, "extended support" (ie, security updates) for Win7 will continue until Jan 2020, so there are still a few years to go. By then I'll be ready to replace my Win7 machine.

(in reply to Qwixt)

Post #: 48

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/28/2016 3:20:02 PM

Franciscus

Posts: 809
Joined: 12/22/2010
From: Portugal
Status: offline

Just today my wife was caught by Microsoft's sneaky trick

She has a Surface 3, had Windows 8.1 and being not tech-savvy at all, she had all options as default.
Today while she was working on a particularly important Powerpoint presentation due on her work next week, suddenly Windows automatically shut down and started upgrading to Win 10.

2 lost hours after, she was able to get her PC back again, with a non-demanded upgrade to Win 10. Latest changes on her work lost. At least she was able to continue, although only after waiting for Office to "adjust" or something...

Just incredible. How do they get away with it ??

Apple NEVER did anything like that to me...

< Message edited by Franciscus -- 5/28/2016 3:24:23 PM >

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Post #: 49

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/28/2016 5:42:01 PM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline

quote:

Apple NEVER did anything like that to me...

please read up a few posts, Apple were the first to do it

(in reply to Franciscus)

Post #: 50

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/28/2016 6:08:20 PM

Riitaoja2

Posts: 208
Joined: 2/10/2016
Status: offline

At least for me running Windows 7 I have been able to avoid all the Windows 10 update KB patches by disabling the option "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" from the Windows update settings.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/change-windows-update-installation-notification#1TC=windows-7

I turned that option off back in the spring of 2015 when I got the first update that started to advertise Windows 10 and have had no issues since then.

I have also had to work with some computers that did not have the recommended updates setting disabled in time. For those computers it has been more troublesome since those Win10 KB updates have already been downloaded and installed and then one needs to find them and uninstall them.

Edit
The list of Microsoft KB updates that I had to search for and uninstall was this:
KB2952664
KB2990214
KB3035583
KB3072318 - Only in Win8
KB3022345
KB3044374 - Only in Win8
KB3075853 - Only in Win8
KB3068708
KB3075249
KB3080149

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/remove-update#1TC=windows-7
The search field on the top right of the Programs and Features > Installed Updates window helps. You can just type in the KB updates one by one to find out if they are installed.

< Message edited by Riitaoja2 -- 5/29/2016 5:35:35 PM >

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 51

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/28/2016 6:49:35 PM

Riitaoja2

Posts: 208
Joined: 2/10/2016
Status: offline

Hopefully this Windows 10 update nonsense will stop after July 2016 as they say. Though this may be a new trend. Maybe a free Windows 11 forced update campaign coming up next year?

(in reply to Riitaoja2)

Post #: 52

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/29/2016 1:11:25 PM

TulliusDetritus

Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone�
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

Just today my wife was caught by Microsoft's sneaky trick

She has a Surface 3, had Windows 8.1 and being not tech-savvy at all, she had all options as default.
Today while she was working on a particularly important Powerpoint presentation due on her work next week, suddenly Windows automatically shut down and started upgrading to Win 10.

2 lost hours after, she was able to get her PC back again, with a non-demanded upgrade to Win 10. Latest changes on her work lost. At least she was able to continue, although only after waiting for Office to "adjust" or something...

Just incredible. How do they get away with it ??

Well, I think I am going to upgrade. If something goes wrong, I will go back to Win 7. Anyway, I am installing a Linux distro (Debian) too. Just in case. I had already used it from 2005 to 2010 (Debian and Ubuntu). Linux was already user friendly in 2010 (in 2006, well...). Bye bye virus, spywares, you are in charge, not your OS

A picture you might want to share with your wife:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 5/29/2016 1:13:48 PM >

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Post #: 53

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/29/2016 3:09:17 PM

CGGrognard

Posts: 594
Joined: 10/3/2013
From: USA
Status: offline

I have to agree. Windows 10 is very forgiving of older games just as Windows 7 was, but with better 'adaptability"
(i.e. Win10 tries to determine the appropriate settings)than previous versions.

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Post #: 54

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/29/2016 4:03:21 PM

solops

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja2
I have also had to work with some computers that did not have the recommended updates setting disabled in time. For those computers it has been more troublesome since those Win10 KB updates have already been downloaded and installed and then one needs to find them and uninstall them.

Edit
The list of Microsoft KB updates that I had to search for and uninstall was this:
KB2952664
KB2990214
KB3035583
KB3072318
KB3022345
KB3044374
KB3075853
KB3068708
KB3075249
KB3080149

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/remove-update#1TC=windows-7
The search field on the top right of the Programs and Features > Installed Updates window helps. You can just type in the KB updates one by one to find out if they are installed.

I also had to get rid of and avoid the following:

KB3112343
KB3123862
KB3118401

_____________________________

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(in reply to Riitaoja2)

Post #: 55

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 5/29/2016 5:31:51 PM

Riitaoja2

Posts: 208
Joined: 2/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: solops
I also had to get rid of and avoid the following:

KB3112343
KB3123862
KB3118401

I did leave KB3112343 installed since it appears to also fix some bugs in Windows Update client:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3112343
They also talk about adding support for additional Windows 10 upgrade scenarios but I have not noticed an issue with this KB. My guess is that by itself KB3112343 does not trigger a Win10 upgrade.

As for KB updates:
KB3123862
KB3118401
none of them have downloaded to my computer but this may be because they are in the recommended updates category and I have those turned off.

KB3123862 does indeed seem like an update that should be uninstalled if the user does not wish to upgrade to Windows 10. At least it does not appear to offer anything useful from the description:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3123862

KB3118401 on the other hand seems to just add support for the Universal C Runtime (CRT):
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3118401
From the description it looks like this update enables some Windows 10 software to run on older Windows operating systems. So I think it may be ok to leave this update installed.

Also in the KB list I posted (Post #: 51) it seems that some of the updates are found only in Win8/8.1. So I edited the list with the "- Only in Win8" annotation for those KB's.

< Message edited by Riitaoja2 -- 5/29/2016 5:40:10 PM >

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Post #: 56

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 6/28/2016 7:51:22 AM

stuart3

Posts: 193
Joined: 9/4/2014
Status: offline

I wonder what kind of legal precedent this sets.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640464

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Post #: 57

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 6/28/2016 10:44:32 AM

stuart3

Posts: 193
Joined: 9/4/2014
Status: offline

This article has a little bit more detail.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-27-woman-wins-usd10k-suing-microsoft-for-unauthorised-windows-10-upgrade

(in reply to stuart3)

Post #: 58

RE: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 upgrade sneaky trick - 6/30/2016 10:20:59 AM

Freyr Oakenshield

Posts: 541
Joined: 4/25/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

250 million installed and still climbing since release

If 250 million people jumped off a cliff would you follow them?