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Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 12:32:25 PM

Uhionk

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Question for you JFB's.

How bad is the loss of all the Fast AO's at Pearl on the IJN?

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RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 1:23:35 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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bad, but not crippling bad

you simply have less capability to operate far away from your bases

(in reply to Uhionk)

Post #: 2

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 3:08:43 PM

DanSez

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For the historical start, the KB shepherding those AO's past Wake Island tends to be the priority for that war zone, plus this also further isolates Wake for the invasion, but I think those AO's are that important.

Very first PBEM test game I played, I ran the KB off quickly toward the 'Next Objective', leaving the Fast Oiler TF behind and the evil Allied opponent ambushed it North of Midway with a carrier task force. Lost over half of them...

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 3

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 3:44:59 PM

Uhionk

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This is my first PBEM against a somewhat experienced Japanese Player with non historical turn. I figured I was in for a multiday pounding or a invasion. One option to mitigate that was to get to the AO's which I was able to achieve on 9th Dec, with USS Detroit and some DD's and sunk all 7 plus the escort DD.

(in reply to DanSez)

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RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 5:13:08 PM

pontiouspilot

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If your Japanese player has hung out into mid-late Dec around Pearl ambushing the AOs can be more than a little awkward. Several games ago I made my opponent very uncomfortable by sinking most of the AOs at a point where replenishment was critical. Unless your opponent opts to hang around too long it is very unlikely that you will get a crack at them. I bagged them with fast surface TFs as I would never risk carriers if KB still around or unaccounted for!

(in reply to Uhionk)

Post #: 5

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 5:40:30 PM

Uhionk

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Already got them on the 9th. Basically every CL sortied from Pearl with DD's, FP's on Night Search to nail these.

Now my Opp wants a turn do over with no AO encounter or a restart..

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 6

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 5:58:01 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uhionk

Already got them on the 9th. Basically every CL sortied from Pearl with DD's, FP's on Night Search to nail these.

Now my Opp wants a turn do over with no AO encounter or a restart..

As the first reply said, it is painful but the IJN can still operate without them. KB can still go all over the map with slower AOs and tankers positioned somewhere safe. But high speed runs across vast distances are probably off the table. It's a loss of capability like losing a carrier, but you learn some things by operating without them. I would not give the do-over unless your opponent is a real newbie who had no idea about getting the AOs away from PH. IMO the IJN should never take them closer than French Frigate Shoals in the first place.

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(in reply to Uhionk)

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RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 7:09:17 PM

pws1225

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I agree with BBfanboy. If your opponent is a somewhat experienced player, as you said, he should be aware of the risk of leaving his oilers unattended. If he chose to take that risk, then he should be prepared to accept the outcome. Besides, as others have noted, the loss of the AOs is not crippling my any means.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 8

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 7:31:35 PM

jmalter

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If your opponent wants a do-over on 9 Dec 41, you've already won the game. Regardless of your losses at Pearl, your riposte has permanently knifed his naval mobility.
I'd not agree to a re-play, unless in exchange you are garanteed a free mulligan of your own, in addition to an adjustment in your favor of any Allied-restrictive HRs.

And you've learned that AOs are a strategic-level asset, so give adequate protection to your own oilers!

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 9

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 7:52:30 PM

Revthought

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uhionk

Already got them on the 9th. Basically every CL sortied from Pearl with DD's, FP's on Night Search to nail these.

Now my Opp wants a turn do over with no AO encounter or a restart..

If it were me, I would firmly say no, unless there was some really weird unintended error on his part. What I mean by this is, if my opponent forgot to set cap over his carriers, or something similar, I'd be more than happy to re-do the turn. Those kind of mistakes happen, and aren't very realistic. Insisting on turn results under those conditions is just poor sportsmanship.

If, however, which appears to be the case, someone wants a "re-do" because they made a poor decision, or because they got some bad rolls, then no way am I going to happily replay the turn until they get the results they want.

If that's a deal breaker so be it.

Luckily you are only on December 9th, so if it were a deal breaker not much is lost.

Seriously though, you cannot save scum a PBEM game against a human opponent. If you're the type of person who needs re-dos because things didn't go your way, you should be playing the AI.

< Message edited by Revthought -- 6/10/2016 7:59:47 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 8:25:34 PM

DanSez

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'Experience JFB'
'non-historical turn'

IIRC TF 2 is one of those with the *Magic Move capability.
(it has been a few months since looking at a Day One setup)

If that is correct, I am wondering why the Fast Oiler TF is anywhere East of Marcus Island?
Could be het left it to land on its default location without considering where he was redeploying TF 1.
...or
Maybe he was planning a run toward the West Coast against an inexperienced opponent and got caught in surprise.

Either case, but especially the latter:
Bad choice = Bad results.

(btw, I am a JFB)

But you know the situation and person while we yard birds have no clue. He might be a great guy but just experiencing a very bad moment.

If an opponent waltzed a carrier tf out of port directly into an ambush without setting his planes from Training to Mission, I might have some sympathy. There are a million ways to screw up and the occasional show of grace to your opponet goes a long way to keeping a game alive and interesting.
In that case I would consider a redo (with a tactical sacrifice negociated in return like no attacks on x for the next 3-4 months or something like that). Give a little, get a little. Keep the game moving.

What do you know of the guy?
Do you think the long term relationship will be a good one or do you think this could be the first of many bumps in the road?

One semi-common complaint I keep hearing from the AFBs are that when the sun is shining the JFB is flipping turns and going strong but once the storm clouds gather, some of them look for the first off ramp to exit. I don't believe that is true in the majority of cases but like any urban legend, all it takes is one Willy Horton to sink a Presidential Campaign.

Sorry to ramble but your first question does raise other issues and you and your opponent need to come to some kind of an agreement that will build trust and help the game last till '44/'45 when you will have the upper hand.

No offense intended to either player.

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 11

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 8:57:32 PM

BBfanboy

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I think the game initial set-up (before player orders) has the AOs heading to PH very close to the KB. If the Japanese player does not change this because he thinks it is OK - it's on him. If he is pretty new and fails to check all the TFs already on the board, I might have some sympathy.

But if I understand correctly you started on Dec 7 and his AOs were hit on the Dec. 8th turn? If so, he should have noticed that his AOs were in harm's way and got them out of there.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to DanSez)

Post #: 12

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 9:02:17 PM

Uhionk

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Thanks for the feedback, I'm going to call this one for the allies.

I seems that although the AO loss is a major setback and would slow the IJN down, its not catastrophic. I can't shake the feeling that even if I offer the do over, which I am not , that if have another success I'll be back in the same situation, invasion of Madras fails, do over....

(in reply to DanSez)

Post #: 13

RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/10/2016 11:00:17 PM

cohimbra

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You can also covert TK type-N TL class (12.800 liquid capacity), type-1 TL class (11.600) and Manzyu TM class (7.500) to AO. I suggest to use some type-1 TL class to do this, you can produce a lot of them.

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 6/10/2016 11:11:37 PM >

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RE: Japanese Pearl AO's - 6/11/2016 12:51:19 AM

rustysi

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My take on this is somewhat different as I believe it depends on the situation. Are you playing an historical first turn? If yes, and he just forgot to get them out of the way I'd probable give a mulligan. Same with non-historical.

If he had them acting 'aggressively', no.

You know these are out there and where they start, if you chased them down with a TF at 'full speed' I'd say that's on you, so I'd give a mulligan.

If he was trying to move them and just took a poor route, well that's on him. Better luck next time.

So getting a feel for an opponent is important and like said above it could help get a game along toward the end. Of course, OTOH if he cries for a mulligan every time something goes wrong, well that gets old in a hurry.

As stated above also its not the end of the world. Tankers can convert to AO's. It'll just take a bit of time.

Just my .02, and MHO.

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Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to cohimbra)

Post #: 15