German Morale Increase Following Combat

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German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 4:21:12 AM

HITMAN202

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German infantry with a base morale of 75 , following a successful attack, will increase morale by an average 2 (actually slightly less) for those units with a morale of 75 or lower and by an average of 0.2 (slightly higher) for units greater than a 75 morale. I ran about 1000 combats and expected a more varied finding.

Identical results were found for German armor/mech units with a base 85 morale- +2 for units with a 85 or lower morale and 0.2 for those higher.

I wonder if the Russian morale is similarly affected ??

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 4:45:45 AM

Michael T

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1000 combats! ain't nobody got time for dat

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 1:38:34 PM

STEF78

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1000 combats! Waow!

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 1:48:28 PM

Balou

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Does 2by3 has awards for uncommon dedication ?

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 3:21:19 PM

HITMAN202

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It was really a lot more than that. It was an off-shoot of trying to figure out how much ground attack and ground support helped in the success of attacks. (My findings which were/are controversial seemed to show that since there was such a great variation in adjusted offensive and defensive combat values for any attack, in attacks with an average adjusted defensive CV's of +250 air support helped success less than 5% when the attack without air support (ground attack and support) was a 50/50 proposition. Morveal was critical of my results ... he didn't disagree with my theory, however... in that I failed to realize that the computer generates a finite set of numbers each turn that it uses as "die rolls" and by repeating combats in a saved turn I wasn't getting true random results.

I "knew" he was wrong because when I repeated attacks from a saved turn the results were different. But when I set up a test scenario with stacks of German infantry units surrounded by Ruskies (to make my efforts less laborious) I surprisingly found that my results were not random.

So I simply replayed the first turn time and time again (yes MT, it was a pain) and was surprised with my findings. Practically it shows that units will not maintain a morale over the base value unless they have a +85% success rate in combat.

Morveal does the computer generate a single set of numbers each turn for all "die rolls" or separate ones for combat, HQ support, reserve activation, etc. ???

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 5:13:22 PM

rainman2015

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How the heck did you run 1000+ combats without reloading saves 100s of times at least?

I would be interested to hear more about how ground bombings and ground support help. It sure seems like they make a huge difference, getting 2-4K of a 10K division to cower in their holes during a combat makes them much more beatable and more prone to rout in my seat of the pants experience. Once i figured that part of the game out, the Luftwaffe now feels like it has the influence it should have.

But, i sure don't see many morale increases once morale hits about 80-85 for the German infantry or 90 for panzers.

Randy
:)

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 7:04:25 PM

HITMAN202

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Running stacks of 3 German infantry with hasty attacks throughout all fronts on turn 1 campaign game, 250-300 attacks (80-100 attacks of 3 in a stack, that is) 4-5 times is not too time consuming.

I think I have helped all players understand now that German units below base morale will increase their morale on an average of two points per successful attack. Losses seem to incur about a 1 point drop (I think this is consistent thru all the morale ranges.. at first it seemed the higher rated units lost more, but the fact they were slow to regain the loss gave me a false impression) so a 1 to 2 ratio of victories to defeats will maintain a base morale.

Gains of morale over base is infinitesimal, 0.2 to 0.3. The rate may be slightly higher for units 1-2 points over base, but only by an additional 0.1 or so. Also when the bonus occurs the average is also just under 2 points, I think 30% were +1, 605 +2 and 10% +3. That surprised me. So units need a +80-85% success rate to increase morale.

Later about benefits of air support, my friend.

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/19/2016 9:28:34 PM

sillyflower

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Dr T

Your work is very interesting in a sad sort of way.........

As I reported in my AAR vs Brian, 12 Pz xx got to 99 morale around T33 thanks to Brian's succession of failed attacks during the blizzard. He didn't do that many though. That div was not involved in 30 successful combats per game turn without ever having suffered a negative result.

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RE: German Morale Increase Following Combat - 6/20/2016 8:28:22 AM

morvael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202
Morveal does the computer generate a single set of numbers each turn for all "die rolls" or separate ones for combat, HQ support, reserve activation, etc. ???

Roll sets are separate for each unit, leader and air group, but there is a tiny part of rolls that are truly random. Also, you may do things in slightly different sequence involving parts of a group of units, and this will give you different results as well. Still, I wouldn't want to base my observations on those semi-random numbers...

It's actually not a secret that units have easier to gain morale if they are below their NM, and easier to lose morale if they are above their NM. And of course it's harder to gain morale if above NM, and harder to lose morale if below NM.

It's also not a secret that random (final) CV can vary greatly depending on the rolls, that's why Alt CV mode was added, to present more accurate predictions.

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