A Plea to my Canadian Neighbors

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

A Plea to my Canadian Neighbors

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> A Plea to my Canadian Neighbors

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

A Plea to my Canadian Neighbors - 5/9/2001 7:41:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

I need your help. I want to do a scenario or two on the 2nd and/or 4th(?) Canadian Armored Divisions in the summer of 44 or even later in the Schelde Estuary. It is HARD for me to get some good solid info. I am thinking in terms of tanks vs tanks. Can anyone help me here with book titles, references, websites, anything. I really want to do this. If you want to e-mail me that is fine too! Thanks..WB

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

Post #: 1

- 5/9/2001 8:09:00 AM

Hauptmann6

Posts: 121
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Portage, MI
Status: offline

Here's a couple site's with info. Not sure how much use they will be to you though... http://www3.sympatico.ca/chrjohnson/index.htm http://www.mapleleafup.org There is another really good site called the Valor and the Horror(IIRC) but I lost the link doing a reformat. If I find it I will post it. Haupt

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 2

- 5/9/2001 8:42:00 AM

pops

Posts: 252
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline

I've heard the book Tug of War by W. Denis Whitaker and Shelagh Whitaker (which I have read and is excellent!) is back in print and to be found on Amazon.com for a good price. Another good series is called Maple Leaf Route with seperate volumes entitled: Falaise, Antwerp, Scheldt and Victory (or something like that. I am working on a mod for CC3 covering the Scheldt campaign and from what I gather it was mostly infantry slogging it out through sodden polder land with the only major tank engagements taking place around the Wousche Plantage-Esschen area....though I think the Polish regiments may have had more armoured engagements earlier in the campaign. I can't reccomend Tug of War enough as far as getting a great read on the campaign....especially from a Canadian perspective.....I've even thought of sending you the book in the past but I am always referring to it. Good luck!

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 3

- 5/9/2001 10:18:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

Thanks, fellas! I appreciate it. Are you going to do one on the assault on Walcheren (?) island? That made for some very interesting reading for me. Tug of War..I'll look for it. And I'll check out the website right now. Anything else, let me know..WB

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 4

- 5/10/2001 2:59:00 AM

DCruiser

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/27/2000
From: Lower Sackville, NS, Canada
Status: offline

I've got a few suggestions for you, Wild Bill. I agree with pops about "Tug of War" by the Whitakers (ISBN 0773732268). Denis Whitaker was with the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry at Dieppe, and then commanded the battalion during the NorthWest Europe campaign. He and his wife have written three other books together as follows: Rhineland: The Battle to End the War (ISBN 0-7737-3257-8). This covers Allied Operations to clear the Rhineland in Feb/Mar 45, concentrating on Canadian Operations, but also tying in British and American assaults. Canadian Divisions included the 2nd and 3rd Infantry Divisions and the 4th Armoured Division. I have recently purchased this book, but have not re-read it yet, though I did read the 1st edition years ago. Victory at Falaise: The Soldier's Story (ISBN 0-00-200017-2). This covers Canadian 1st Army operations down the Falaise highway from Caen to the closing of the gap, including the use of Kangeroos (converted Canadian Ram tanks)during armoured assaults. The authors spend quite some time discussing the actions of Major David Currie in winning the Victoria Cross, during operations at St-Lambert-sur-Dives to plug the Falaise Gap, in concert with the 1st Polish Armoured Division at Chambois (Maczuga). Currie was attempting to slow down the flow out of the gap with a squadron of the South Alberta Regt (15 Shermans) and a company of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, (later joined by a couple of more companies of infantry). The units formed part of the Fourth Canadian Armoured Division. They destroyed seven tanks, twelve 88s, and forty vehicles and killed, wounded or captured 2900 Germans, all on the 20th August. Dieppe: Tragedy to Triumph (ISBN 0-07-551385-4) Unfortunately, this book is still out of print, but since Rhineland and Tug of War have recently been reprinted, I would'nt be surprised if this is next. Can't describe this in detail, since I haven't read it yet. Finally, I would like to recommend one more book. It is called "Fighting For Canada: Seven Battles, 1758-1945". This book includes two Canadian World War Two skirmishes, one during the Normandy Campaign and one in Holland. Both are small battles, described in some detail. The first is about a disaster for the 1st Hussars, part of the 2nd Armoured Brigade supporting the 3rd Infantry Division on 11 June, 1944, at Le Mesnil-Patry. Two squadron of tanks, supported by two companies of the Queen's Own Rifles assaulted units of the 12th SS Hitlerjugend, and encountered 75mm Pak anti-tank guns and Jadgpanzer IV tank destroyers. After heavy fighting, the Germans counterattacked with some armour. The books has excellent maps and an order of battle, which should aid in scenario development. The second describes an assault by units of the 4th Armoured Division on a fortified dyke held by about 150 German paratroopers in Jan 45. This attack on the polders over soft ground and water included mostly infantry, using Buffalos and canoes, supported by Wasp flamethrowers, Shermans and Stuarts. The maps are not as detailed as for the above battle though. Hope this helps you out and sorry for the long, long post. By the way, if you can't find the books at Amazon, check Chapters.ca. Cheers, DCruiser [ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: DCruiser ]

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 5

- 5/10/2001 3:49:00 AM

DCruiser

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/27/2000
From: Lower Sackville, NS, Canada
Status: offline

Me Again Here's a couple of web sites: http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/index.html The first is Veteran Affairs, with general histories, not much detail. The second has a large number of links to explore. Cheers, DCruiser

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 6

- 5/10/2001 4:15:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
Joined: 6/26/2000
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline

Another book series to look for WB is the "Maple leaf route" series. The one covering the Scheldt estuary is Maple Leaf Route: Antwerp, authors last name is Copp cant remember his first name. I read through it last summer when I was considering doing a scenario about the Scheldt(until I realized I just dont have the patience) It was quite detailed with aerial photos of the battlefields. [ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: McGib ]

_____________________________

Ready Aye Ready

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 7

- 5/10/2001 4:36:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

Excellent! All of these are exactly what I had in mind. Now I am going shopping. I'll have some Canucks on the battlefield very soon. Thanks to all of you for kindly pointing me in the right direction. Wild Bill

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 8

- 5/10/2001 5:31:00 AM

cbtsigsgm

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/9/2001
From: Sierra Vista, AZ
Status: offline

I know the RSM at the Canadian Combined Arms Training Center, they should have historical references for these divisions, I will see if he can help you out.

_____________________________

shoot,move and COMMUNICATE!

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 9

- 5/10/2001 6:00:00 AM

Figmo

Posts: 556
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Status: offline

Bill, I was looking into do one on Walcheren Island - but if the master is going to do it - that's even better!! I sent you some info by e-mail - hope it helps!! Figmo

_____________________________

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, f

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 10

- 5/10/2001 6:04:00 AM

pops

Posts: 252
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline

Just to clarify re: Maple Leaf Route "Antwerp" covers from Normandy to Antwerp...the volume "Scheldt" as it's name implies covers the Scheldt campaign itself...lots of good maps too but for terrific insight you can't beat Tug of War...it's a great read!

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 11

- 5/11/2001 5:09:00 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline

yo Wild Bill being a canuck and being so impressed with the game I would love to offer any assistance especially when it might actually have som manner of worth. I own a rather impressive library of Canadian war history which I would like to make available to you (I can scan literature if its of any use and email same to you I believe). Currently my best items are the Maple Leaf Route volumes, as well as the Readers Digest Canada at War volumes I and II that I have (which have the orginal splendid maps not commonly available anymore). Being something of a collector as well as a veteran model maker I have quite a massive archive in general. Give me a private scream at my email addresss if you wish as well les.baines@sympatico.ca any help I can offer would really let me feel I was helping repay the fine efforts that Matrix accomplishes. Oh and I have 5.01 and while I am getting slagged in my first campaign of the new version (my tactics sucked) I can say thus far I like it.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 12

- 5/11/2001 6:26:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

Thanks Les. I will be in touch. Modeling...I did it for many years, till cataracts and surgery ruined my near vision. Alas! A memory now! I appreciate the good responses here at the forum from the Canucks willing to help. Wild Bill

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 13

- 5/11/2001 3:02:00 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

Hello all, I�m also planning to do some "veritable 2/45" scenarios from canadian and/or german perspective, so also would appreciate any help offered on divisional histories, maps etc. Battles in mind: Reichswald, Moyland, Goch - Kalkar road, Hochwald gap and Xanten. Who can help? :) __________ Harry

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 14

- 5/14/2001 11:31:00 PM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

I am going to call on you now for your help. I need some good background on the fighting of the 2nd and 3rd Divisions around Caen (did they fight the 12thSS?) and also the Advance on Falaise. Anything you have would be appreciated. Please send any material you can via e-mail to me. I'll get on it. billw@matrixgames.com ..WB

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 15

- 5/15/2001 3:33:00 AM

DCruiser

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/27/2000
From: Lower Sackville, NS, Canada
Status: offline

As a starting point for Canadian Army Operations, check the Canadian Military Headquarters reports on this Canadian Department of National Defence website. http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dhh//history_archives/engraph/cmhq_e.asp?cat=4 These are official war time reports used as the basis of the Official Histories. Reports are in PDF format. Reports 131, 139, 146, 147 and 169 pertain to Normandy. Happy Reading, DCruiser [ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: DCruiser ]

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 16

- 5/16/2001 12:58:00 AM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

Woaaww...!! Outstanding source and definite platinum bookmark! :) ...also biiiig thanks from germany! _________ Harry

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 17

- 5/16/2001 5:11:00 AM

DCruiser

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/27/2000
From: Lower Sackville, NS, Canada
Status: offline

Glad you like the site. I first discovered it while doing research at work, on our Intranet. (I'm in the Canadian Navy). By the way, there are more reports on the site under the Army Headquarters Reports 1948-1959. http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dhh/history_archives/engraph/ahq_e.asp?cat=4 And while it doesn't really apply to SPWAW, there are 4 books available on the site on World War I, Korean War, Boer War and a general Canadian military history. Just check Historical Books/Out of Circulation. http://www.dnd.ca/HR/DHH/PUBLICATIONS/ENGRAPH/out_circ_e.asp?cat=5 Finally, the Canadian Battle Series is available on line, but only in French, at the same site. http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dhh/history_archives/frgraph/Battle_Series_f.asp?cat=4 Cheers, DCruiser

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 18

- 6/1/2001 8:47:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
Joined: 6/26/2000
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by DCruiser: I agree with pops about "Tug of War" by the Whitakers (ISBN 0773732268). Denis Whitaker was with the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry at Dieppe, and then commanded the battalion during the NorthWest Europe campaign. He and his wife have written three other books together as follows.... [ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: DCruiser ]

Unfortunatly last weekend Colonel Denis Whitaker past away this past sunday. He was buried on monday with full military honours. Another old soldier who has faded away.

_____________________________

Ready Aye Ready

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 19

- 6/1/2001 9:43:00 AM

pops

Posts: 252
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline

Sad news indeed...where did you hear about it...any links etc to share for the net? Godspeed Colonel!

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 20

- 6/1/2001 9:54:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
Joined: 6/26/2000
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline

I read about it in the paper pops. Colonel Whitaker lived in Hamilton, right next door to me.

_____________________________

Ready Aye Ready

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 21

- 6/1/2001 8:36:00 PM

Bonzo

Posts: 676
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Peace River, AB, Canada
Status: offline

Sorry WB, for missing this thread earlier. Do you still need anything? I don't want to plug your e-mail for nothing.

_____________________________

Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Webmaster 28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters Main http://www.nwbattalion.com E-mail

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 22

- 6/2/2001 11:49:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

I'll drop you a note personally, Bonzo. Thanks...WB

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 23

- 6/3/2001 10:49:00 PM

Bennett

Posts: 37
Joined: 6/3/2001
Status: offline

Having enjoyed your scenarios and articles for years, this is the least that I could do. You may be aware of some of these books but just in case... "Failure in High Command" by John A. English (1990). A professional Canadian officer critiques the performance of our army in Normandy. Many maps included in a detailed tactical analysis of the battles from Juno beach to the Falaise gap. "1944 The Canadians in Normandy" by Reginald H. Roy (1984). A fortieth anniversary edition which also covers the battles from Juno to Falaise. "Steel Inferno 1st SS Panzer Corps in Normandy" by Michael Reynolds (1997). You may have seen this one. A retired British officer covers the German side of Normandy through the 1st SS Panzer Corps. Gives the German side of many 12th SS Panzer Division battles. The first two books could be tough to find...let me know if you need obtaining a copy.

_____________________________

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 24