Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

They were used as maritime patrol aircraft. In a lot of cases they were originally PBY units.

Playing against the AI, I don't need as much maritime patrol by the time these aircraft become available, so I use them for base attack. The PB4Y is a B-24 and can perform the same mission. The PV-1 can fly the same mission as the non-attack bomber version of the B-25, though it's more fragile, so expect more losses. I mostly use PV-1 for training. Train a patrol squadron up on PV-1, then switch them to PB4Y or PBY before deploying them. Not possible if you are playing with PDU off.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

They were used as maritime patrol aircraft. In a lot of cases they were originally PBY units.

Playing against the AI, I don't need as much maritime patrol by the time these aircraft become available, so I use them for base attack. The PB4Y is a B-24 and can perform the same mission. The PV-1 can fly the same mission as the non-attack bomber version of the B-25, though it's more fragile, so expect more losses. I mostly use PV-1 for training. Train a patrol squadron up on PV-1, then switch them to PB4Y or PBY before deploying them. Not possible if you are playing with PDU off.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
I have no idea how the PB4Y is modeled in the game , but in real life a Navy Liberator is DEFINATELY NOT an ARMY one. When I was a stupid young P-3 "nugget" aircrewman in my teens , many of my senior NCO's were WW2 vets. Many an evening was spent by me mesmerized by "war stories" of some of these guys who as young men had flown these planes during and after the war. One thing that sticks in my mind is the descriptions of how via "field expedients" these planes were stripped of every possible pound of weight , to carry more AVGAS. Armor , Norden bomb sights (which is ironic as it was originally a Navy development contract) and even guns (frequently ball turrets) were pulled out , the planes loaded to them max with fuel (causing some horrific crashes) and sent on incredibly long patrols looking for "Sugars" or some times "Sugar tares" , small freighters. Not that they wouldn't go after anything else , if it had the courtesy to show itself (which was rare). They were looking for targets for themselves , and anything to big for them to go after , they'd vector in other fleet assets. Using EXTRA long range MPA's to bomb land targets makes about sense as using P-51's to deliver the mail. Could they do it? Sure! Was it a good use for it? No , not really. They were not trained in anything other than basic formation flying and trained for low level slashing attacks , not high altitude "city busting". In my opinion , they are the only 4 engine bomber that was regularly used for naval attack. In that they were VERY highly trained. They were also (and VP-squadrons still are) highly trained in airborne mining. But to use them as regular Army B-24's painted blue is not only improper but indeed almost "gamey". I mean that in the a-historical sense , NOT gaming the computer.

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I am just starting to get PV1 squadrons, and was excited since the Army medium bombers do not have much depth. I wanted to use them as regular bombers. Now, I am not so sure, just in terms of gameiness or historical use. Same with the bigger PB4Ys. In a previous game I replaced many of the PVs with the 4E types.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I am just starting to get PV1 squadrons, and was excited since the Army medium bombers do not have much depth. I wanted to use them as regular bombers. Now, I am not so sure, just in terms of gameiness or historical use. Same with the bigger PB4Ys. In a previous game I replaced many of the PVs with the 4E types.

Might I suggest using them for their intended use? You really don't have enough ULTRA long range patrol craft. They are in relatively small squadrons , and you might want to consider that in this game sweeping ALL of the enemies ships from the sea might just be more important that bombing yet another fly speck island. How about also using them for your mining campaign , freeing up Army heavy bombers for your bombing campaign? I have never encountered a player who gave naval search the importance it was due in real life. How many times was a battle impacted by a sighting report? How many time was a battle impacted by NOT sighting the enemy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Regrettably in game terms I restrain from using them as naval attack aircraft. Due to their range and the way the game works they are just too vulnerable to CAP traps if you are playing a skilled Japanese opponent. Until I have them in numbers I almost use them exclusively for Naval search. Can't have too much of that. Then later in the war when I have plenty of aircraft and pilots, they are out bombing bases. The Venturas are good for suppressing atols and wearing them down prior to invasion. The PBYs I use the same way as I would Army Liberators. If I could use them for naval attack I would but they will just attack ships in an enemy base and get creamed by the CAP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I am just starting to get PV1 squadrons, and was excited since the Army medium bombers do not have much depth. I wanted to use them as regular bombers. Now, I am not so sure, just in terms of gameiness or historical use. Same with the bigger PB4Ys. In a previous game I replaced many of the PVs with the 4E types.

Might I suggest using them for their intended use? You really don't have enough ULTRA long range patrol craft. They are in relatively small squadrons , and you might want to consider that in this game sweeping ALL of the enemies ships from the sea might just be more important that bombing yet another fly speck island. How about also using them for your mining campaign , freeing up Army heavy bombers for your bombing campaign? I have never encountered a player who gave naval search the importance it was due in real life. How many times was a battle impacted by a sighting report? How many time was a battle impacted by NOT sighting the enemy?

quote:

The Navy did use PV-1s and PV-2s to attack Paramurshiro from Attu near the end of the war. The Army was also attacking the same targets with B-25s and B-24s, but they only had one squadron of each in theater at that time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
Playing against the AI, I don't need as much maritime patrol by the time these aircraft become available, so I use them for base attack. The PB4Y is a B-24 and can perform the same mission. The PV-1 can fly the same mission as the non-attack bomber version of the B-25, though it's more fragile, so expect more losses.

quote:

I always wondered what gives, since airframe stats are nothing spectacular

quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I am just starting to get PV1 squadrons, and was excited since the Army medium bombers do not have much depth. I wanted to use them as regular bombers. Now, I am not so sure, just in terms of gameiness or historical use. Same with the bigger PB4Ys. In a previous game I replaced many of the PVs with the 4E types.

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

I always wondered what gives, since airframe stats are nothing spectacular

With a top speed of over 300 mph the PV-1 could outrun a lot of IJN/IJA fighters if they were not well pre-positioned to make an interception. In the Aleutians the PV-1s often flew beyond Paramushiro and made their bomb runs attacking from the SW to confuse the defense and take advantage of their relatively high speed.

It is interesting that the game does not give them the attributes of attack bombers since USN doctrine differed markedly from USAAF doctrine emphasizing low level attack as opposed to "high altitude precision bombing". By the latter half of 1943 PV-1s were being retro-fitted with a "chin pack" of 3 x .50cal MGs (replacing the bombardier) so that they could use a lot of firepower in low-level attacks. With the top turret aimed forward over the nose they had 7 x .50cals strafing. The PV-2 incorporated this "chin-pack" as standard equipment. The PV-2D (cancelled due to the end of the war) added 3 more .50 cals.

The PB4Y-2 was also modified to reflect the USNs preference for low level attacks. The ball turret was removed from the "standard" B24 as were the turbochargers on the engines: both important items for high altitude operations but unneeded at the low altitudes at which the USN operated. The planes often operated in pairs with one plane turning its bow, stern, side blister and top guns on the target to suppress flak while the other conducted its bombing attack.