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RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/6/2017 4:50:17 PM

CCIP-subsim

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

yeah i admire anyone who's willing to make anything for these underappreciated genres. we may actually be in the middle of a simulation renaissance thank goodness. 2002-2012~ was a real desert.

It's a knock-on effect of the indie resurgence of the last few years - it's actually viable now to market games to smaller audiences and still make money. While I do understand people who have problems with Steam distribution and miss the days of physical discs and paper manuals, I think it's important to give credit where credit is due - digital distribution and marketing via platforms like Steam has really helped change the picture for the better. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more games like this lately.

But yes, regardless of what one thinks of the "hardcoreness" of a game like this (which I think intentionally stays less technically-detailed and more accessible), I think we should all be buying this and should be very happy indeed that it's on the market, and I really hope that it succeeds. The more games like this, the merrier

(in reply to Cik)

Post #: 31

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/6/2017 6:48:18 PM

hellfish6

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I enjoy it very much so far. My first kill was a wire-guided Mk48 into a Foxtrot-class SS. It felt like an achievement.

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Post #: 32

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/7/2017 12:19:19 PM

Cik

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the torpedoes are completely ridiculous to be honest. the "shark circle" they do after losing contact almost never fails to re-acquire the target. i've had a single MK48 travel quite a ways, lose track 5-6 times due to noisemaker and "crazy ivan" and then reacquire every time and split an udaloy in half. likewise they completely annihilate every sub i've hit with them.

i'm actually having more luck with torpedoes against udaloy than with harpoons; they can't ever seem to spoof the torpedoes but they shoot down the harpoons often enough that you have to expend a lot of your limited magazine to get a kill.

granted the harpoons are really great for killing merchants/transports after you torpedo the escorts.

anyway i don't know how realistic it is but i've fought it out a few times now with surface groups and dodged 20+ torpedoes with plane down/plane up/ballast up breaks into the torpedo. the knuckle + noisemaker + rapid climb/dive does a really good job of spoofing the soviet equipment.

the thing that's actually killed me the most are the depth charges which seem like near instant death if they hit you, and they can get you really quickly if you are above 500ft.

i really wish there was a two-way recording system like in command though. it's hard to know exactly when they spot you. half the time i jump into a meeting engagement and i'm already getting pinged by active two seconds in and i have no idea if they know i'm there or if they just run active all the time, or what.

fun game.

< Message edited by Cik -- 6/7/2017 12:26:52 PM >

(in reply to hellfish6)

Post #: 33

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/7/2017 11:23:14 PM

cns180784

Posts: 447
Joined: 7/31/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

the torpedoes are completely ridiculous to be honest. the "shark circle" they do after losing contact almost never fails to re-acquire the target. i've had a single MK48 travel quite a ways, lose track 5-6 times due to noisemaker and "crazy ivan" and then reacquire every time and split an udaloy in half. likewise they completely annihilate every sub i've hit with them.

i'm actually having more luck with torpedoes against udaloy than with harpoons; they can't ever seem to spoof the torpedoes but they shoot down the harpoons often enough that you have to expend a lot of your limited magazine to get a kill.

granted the harpoons are really great for killing merchants/transports after you torpedo the escorts.

anyway i don't know how realistic it is but i've fought it out a few times now with surface groups and dodged 20+ torpedoes with plane down/plane up/ballast up breaks into the torpedo. the knuckle + noisemaker + rapid climb/dive does a really good job of spoofing the soviet equipment.

the thing that's actually killed me the most are the depth charges which seem like near instant death if they hit you, and they can get you really quickly if you are above 500ft.

i really wish there was a two-way recording system like in command though. it's hard to know exactly when they spot you. half the time i jump into a meeting engagement and i'm already getting pinged by active two seconds in and i have no idea if they know i'm there or if they just run active all the time, or what.

fun game.

I think they pretty much always actively ping and i think it would have been in their doctrine to (at least back in the 60's-80's) due to the superior American subs' passive sonar and quieter subs. Its no concrete indication they've detected you, and if you are able to classify what it is thats pinging you with your sonar then you can find out if it can hear you in the signature tab under where it has SNS displaying how loud its passive/active sonar can hear you given the current range its at from your sub. Chances are it might not hear you even if their active sonar has a positive reading because you could be in their baffles.

Been playing the game and enjoying it but there are issues, like the range and depth the Soviet ASW a/c MAD's have, its ridiculous they always know where you are as soon as they show up. They're working at fixing this now apparently. Also the controls needs an overhaul.

(in reply to Cik)

Post #: 34

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/7/2017 11:25:34 PM

ExNusquam

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From: Washington, D.C.
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So far, I'm really enjoying it. Except for trying to escape Mays and Helixes in shallow water. That part sucks.

quote:

i really wish there was a two-way recording system like in command though. it's hard to know exactly when they spot you. half the time i jump into a meeting engagement and i'm already getting pinged by active two seconds in and i have no idea if they know i'm there or if they just run active all the time, or what.

On the signature panel, there are estimates of the selected contacts detection of you. 10dB is the detection threshold, and they'll hold a contact down to 0dB. The Soviets in game use active a lot to compensate for their (relatively) inferior passive sets.

(in reply to Cik)

Post #: 35

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/7/2017 11:29:55 PM

cns180784

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExNusquam

So far, I'm really enjoying it. Except for trying to escape Mays and Helixes in shallow water. That part sucks.

quote:

i really wish there was a two-way recording system like in command though. it's hard to know exactly when they spot you. half the time i jump into a meeting engagement and i'm already getting pinged by active two seconds in and i have no idea if they know i'm there or if they just run active all the time, or what.

On the signature panel, there are estimates of the selected contacts detection of you. 10dB is the detection threshold, and they'll hold a contact down to 0dB. The Soviets in game use active a lot to compensate for their (relatively) inferior passive sets.

You only get estimates of their detection of you if you are able to correctly classify the contact so the FCC knows the contacts sonar ability. It says in the manual if you incorrectly classify a contact then as well as having a false solution on it, you'll also get false readings for their SNS.

(in reply to ExNusquam)

Post #: 36

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/8/2017 12:17:12 PM

Cik

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yeah, the ID is the tricky part. generally i try to keep my engagements at the longer ranges and leverage the lethality of my torpedoes. i find that if you engage from long range the enemy has a very uncertain picture of you and they will often have their ils and bears dropping sonobuoys off in the middle of nowhere or on your inbound torpedoes. getting close at this point means they get a fix and then you have to deal with the bear flying over the top of you for the next 6 in-game hours of time compression as you pop 20 noisemakers 4 torpedo decoys change direction speed dive/climb etc all completely with absolutely zero effect as he always sees you anyway.

go ahead slow, launch your torpedoes on a wire from ~15 KYD (i'm not even sure what measurement that is..) then have them "pop up" near the surface targets and go active and you can sink 4 ships in your initial salvo, then pop to the surface and sink the rest with a harpoon volley

often when i fight surface groups i barely move, just sit in the duct at longer ranges with my ESM mast extended and fire at echos. seems like the only way at the moment to avoid the bear.

< Message edited by Cik -- 6/8/2017 12:19:51 PM >

(in reply to cns180784)

Post #: 37

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/8/2017 1:32:22 PM

ExNusquam

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From: Washington, D.C.
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KYD is thousands of yards.

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Post #: 38

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/8/2017 11:33:46 PM

cns180784

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExNusquam

KYD is thousands of yards.

Yep and 2 KYD is 1NM. Needed to find this out as i've been so used to Nautical Miles from playing Command.

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Post #: 39

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/8/2017 11:37:24 PM

cns180784

Posts: 447
Joined: 7/31/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

yeah, the ID is the tricky part. generally i try to keep my engagements at the longer ranges and leverage the lethality of my torpedoes. i find that if you engage from long range the enemy has a very uncertain picture of you and they will often have their ils and bears dropping sonobuoys off in the middle of nowhere or on your inbound torpedoes. getting close at this point means they get a fix and then you have to deal with the bear flying over the top of you for the next 6 in-game hours of time compression as you pop 20 noisemakers 4 torpedo decoys change direction speed dive/climb etc all completely with absolutely zero effect as he always sees you anyway.

go ahead slow, launch your torpedoes on a wire from ~15 KYD (i'm not even sure what measurement that is..) then have them "pop up" near the surface targets and go active and you can sink 4 ships in your initial salvo, then pop to the surface and sink the rest with a harpoon volley

often when i fight surface groups i barely move, just sit in the duct at longer ranges with my ESM mast extended and fire at echos. seems like the only way at the moment to avoid the bear.

That sounds like a good tactic you got going there. A lot of people are complaining about the ASW aircraft on the Steam forums. The devs are fixing the issue apparently as in the campaign they're able to loiter freely in NATO airspace with no NATO aircraft around to shoot them down. It is annoying it seems that as soon as you're picked up by an enemy sub or ship within a minute or two you hear the humming of Tu-142's flying overhead dropping buoys followed by torps and then you just cant shake them off.

(in reply to Cik)

Post #: 40

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/9/2017 1:29:48 AM

goodwoodrw

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I have played this only for a few hours, a bit of fun not too complex. My concern is no neutral or allied shipping, so theoretically any contact must be the enemy. There are some Biological references in the unit reference guide. As I said only played a few hours haven't touched on everything yet.

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Post #: 41

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/9/2017 12:13:33 PM

Cik

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yeah. the game is marred somewhat by the aircraft. they can be deployed in any battle, even hundreds of NM from the russian coast deep in friendly airspace, and none of them seem to have any bingo / rtb states (though they do actually run out of weapons) i just run fast and deep and get out of the way of any torpedoes they send for me, then run it out to the mapedge if necessary to exit.

it honestly seems like the russian helos are almost useless personally. they use dipping sonar only (no buoys even in the 80s campaign AFAIK) is fouled pretty bad by the layer it seems. i've had to fire torpedo volleys and do very noisy runs while under the layer and they were having obvious trouble pinpointing me; they kept sending torpedoes into the water quite a ways away from me and at the wrong depth. granted if you engage in the shallows then they are a problem and they can also very easily attack you after you launch harpoons (they easily see the smoke and come running) they also never run out of fuel and with no layer have decent detection. the real problem is if you fail to sink an udaloy you are going to get about 15 rocket-assisted torpedoes thrown at you with the helicopter spotting. nasty.

anyway the lesson i learned is: NEVER FIGHT IN THE SHALLOWS. get stuck with a soviet ASW group and you are 100% dead. anything shallower than 500~ ft is a death sentence imo. stay in the deep water.

also the crush depth of a november is 1200. i figured this out when it dived away from my torpedo :^)

(in reply to goodwoodrw)

Post #: 42

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/9/2017 6:23:32 PM

Marder

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Maybe SeaHag could work with Cold Waters...

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Post #: 43

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/9/2017 9:46:44 PM

hellfish6

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

anyway the lesson i learned is: NEVER FIGHT IN THE SHALLOWS. get stuck with a soviet ASW group and you are 100% dead. anything shallower than 500~ ft is a death sentence imo. stay in the deep water.

I played one encounter vs. a Soviet phib group with a Kresta II, Kanin and... a Kalinin, maybe? with only 400 feet of water and they had a lot of trouble finding me. They knew I was there, but they couldn't get a fix. I killed the escorts with torps and used Harpoons to finish off the fleeing amphibs.

But yeah, most other times in the shallows I'm dead.

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Post #: 44

RE: New indie naval game Cold Waters - 6/9/2017 9:49:26 PM

hellfish6

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Oh, and I wanted to ask - are there any good era-appropriate CMANO missions that fit? I enjoy the tactical battles of Cold Waters, but haven't found a good '80s ASW operational/theater scenario that takes advantage of the updates to Command we've had. Any suggestions or anything I may have missed?

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Post #: 45