Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

In a GC you're going to load thousands of TFs. Thousands.

I just allocate a plug of ships, load them, and add some if they need more space.

Then make a new one to load the left-behind Motorized Support. That always gets left behind.

Your way will lead to insanity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

When in doubt, add a ship. Unfortunately in this case, I'm always in doubt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

So, I've been through the manual closely, as well as scoured these forums, but it appears I still do not get it.

My understanding is that, each LCU has a troop and cargo cost, that both must be fulfilled by the transports.
There is a complex algorithm as to how these units --- troops, devices, etc. --- are distributed amongst the transports, but as long as my transports have sufficient independent troop and cargo capacity, I do not have to worry about cross-loading etc., I can leave all other worries to the (AI) ship masters?
Furthermore, if it is a Transport TF mission, then the LCU's must be in strategic move mode, while if it is an Amphibious TF mission, the LCU's must be in combat mode.
Crucially, as far as calculating loads go, if it is an Amphibious TF mission, then it is a combat load, where: transport troop/cargo capacity is reduced by 80%, and an extra cargo space if required to carry 3 days supply per unit.

In addition, and this very, very, very, very important thing is something that I missed ENTIRELY the first time: each ship can only accommodate a SINGLE unit, either in whole or in part.
Alternatively: even if a single ship is not filled to capacity by a unit, it cannot take another unit, either in whole or in part, even if there is room to spare!

OK, all well and good.

So, after very carefully planning the absolute most efficient collection of ships to provide transport for a COMMERCIAL load of LCU's ... I find that I have underestimated.

Here are the troops I want to transport, and their associated load costs:

-----------------------+-------+-------
 LCU                    | Troop | Cargo
 -----------------------+-------+------
 121st USN Base Force   | 1280  |   728
 131st USA Aviation     |  900  |     0
 3rd USN SeaBees        |  388  |  1200
 11th USN SeaBees       |  388  |  1200
 -----------------------+-------+-------
 Total                  | 2956  |  3128 
 -----------------------+-------+-------

And here is the TF that I have assembled, and their supposed/expected loadings:

+----------------------------------------+---------------+-------+-------+
| Load                                   | Ship          | Troop | Cargo |
+----------------------------------------+---------------+-------+-------+
| 121st USN Base Force Tr: 1280 Ca:  728 | - xAP Adelong |   500 |   750 |
|                                        | - xAP Manunda |   900 |   800 |
| 3rd USN SeaBees      Tr:  388 Ca: 1200 | - xAP Rhesus  |   500 |   750 |
|                                        | - xAP Mungana |   500 |   750 |
| 11th USN SeaBees     Tr:  388 Ca: 1200 | - xAP Murada  |   500 |   750 |
|                                        | - xAP Barwon  |   500 |   750 |
| 131st USA Aviation   Tr:  900 Ca:    0 | - xAP Maori   |   900 |   800 |
+----------------------------------------+---------------+-------+-------+

All looking good? Room to spare?

Apparently not.

After laboriously assembling the TF in one port and moving it to the base with the LCU's, the load cannot be accommodated:

http://imgur.com/a/C66N4

The manual describes the load allocation procedure in Pg. 122. The largest unit will try to be fitted into the smallest ship that can take it. If this does not work, it will be fitted into the largest ship, and then the cycle repeats with the excess.

The discrepency here seems to be how the game handles the remainder after the 121st is loaded on the largest available. After the Manunda takes on as much of the 121st, I have the remaining 380 troops (and 0 cargo) going on to the 500-troop capacity Adelong.
But, instead, the game selects the 900-troop capacity Maori for this, which is excessive.
As a result, there is insufficient capacity remaining to load up the SeaBees.

Why did the game select the 900-troop capacity transport for the remainder of the 121st, when any of the 500-troop capacity transports could have served?

How do you folks plan shipping required for LCU's?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

So, I've been through the manual closely, as well as scoured these forums, but it appears I still do not get it.

My understanding is that, each LCU has a troop and cargo cost, that both must be fulfilled by the transports.
There is a complex algorithm as to how these units --- troops, devices, etc. --- are distributed amongst the transports, but as long as my transports have sufficient independent troop and cargo capacity, I do not have to worry about cross-loading etc., I can leave all other worries to the (AI) ship masters?
Furthermore, if it is a Transport TF mission, then the LCU's must be in strategic move mode, while if it is an Amphibious TF mission, the LCU's must be in combat mode.
Crucially, as far as calculating loads go, if it is an Amphibious TF mission, then it is a combat load, where: transport troop/cargo capacity is reduced by 80%, and an extra cargo space if required to carry 3 days supply per unit.

In addition, and this very, very, very, very important thing is something that I missed ENTIRELY the first time: each ship can only accommodate a SINGLE unit, either in whole or in part.
Alternatively: even if a single ship is not filled to capacity by a unit, it cannot take another unit, either in whole or in part, even if there is room to spare!

OK, all well and good.

So, after very carefully planning the absolute most efficient collection of ships to provide transport for a COMMERCIAL load of LCU's ... I find that I have underestimated.

Here are the troops I want to transport, and their associated load costs:

-----------------------+-------+-------
 LCU                    | Troop | Cargo
 -----------------------+-------+------
 121st USN Base Force   | 1280  |   728
 131st USA Aviation     |  900  |     0
 3rd USN SeaBees        |  388  |  1200
 11th USN SeaBees       |  388  |  1200
 -----------------------+-------+-------
 Total                  | 2956  |  3128 
 -----------------------+-------+-------

And here is the TF that I have assembled, and their supposed/expected loadings:

+----------------------------------------+---------------+-------+-------+
| Load                                   | Ship          | Troop | Cargo |
+----------------------------------------+---------------+-------+-------+
| 121st USN Base Force Tr: 1280 Ca:  728 | - xAP Adelong |   500 |   750 |
|                                        | - xAP Manunda |   900 |   800 |
| 3rd USN SeaBees      Tr:  388 Ca: 1200 | - xAP Rhesus  |   500 |   750 |
|                                        | - xAP Mungana |   500 |   750 |
| 11th USN SeaBees     Tr:  388 Ca: 1200 | - xAP Murada  |   500 |   750 |
|                                        | - xAP Barwon  |   500 |   750 |
| 131st USA Aviation   Tr:  900 Ca:    0 | - xAP Maori   |   900 |   800 |
+----------------------------------------+---------------+-------+-------+

All looking good? Room to spare?

Apparently not.

After laboriously assembling the TF in one port and moving it to the base with the LCU's, the load cannot be accommodated:

http://imgur.com/a/C66N4

The manual describes the load allocation procedure in Pg. 122. The largest unit will try to be fitted into the smallest ship that can take it. If this does not work, it will be fitted into the largest ship, and then the cycle repeats with the excess.

The discrepency here seems to be how the game handles the remainder after the 121st is loaded on the largest available. After the Manunda takes on as much of the 121st, I have the remaining 380 troops (and 0 cargo) going on to the 500-troop capacity Adelong.
But, instead, the game selects the 900-troop capacity Maori for this, which is excessive.
As a result, there is insufficient capacity remaining to load up the SeaBees.

Why did the game select the 900-troop capacity transport for the remainder of the 121st, when any of the 500-troop capacity transports could have served?

How do you folks plan shipping required for LCU's?

In your analysis you have 7 ships listed, but when you load the units there are only 6 ships - I don't know if anyone else pointed this out, but it goes a long way toward identifying your problem. I will frequently load a unit at a time, selecting the ships needed for that unit; then assemble the final TF by combining several unit TF's, with additional ships loaded with supply only, before setting the destination. Often some of the initial TF's can be docked, whereas the resulting assault TF due to size could not be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

No the HQ will unload more slowly being aboard xAPs compared to the division being aboard APAs.

Not a good choice to mix the two in the same TF.

The unloaded APAs will be stuck sitting waiting for the xAPs to finish increasing the vulnerability of the valuable ships.

You have also slowed the APAs down by including the 13 knot xAPs in the same TF.

For amphib operations I load each unit individually and only after fully loaded do I combine TFs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Ignoring the pro and cons of the mixed ship types I think you have all missed the point.  It should not be possible under any circumstances to squeeze the div into the 7 ships, particularly as it's an amphibious load.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Ignoring the pro and cons of the mixed ship types I think you have all missed the point.  It should not be possible under any circumstances to squeeze the div into the 7 ships, particularly as it's an amphibious load.

Is it actually entirely loaded? Was a fragment left behind?

Also, you stated that there was more than enough cargo space. Do you know about crossloading?

Finally, the APAs with the ID on it are not full, although they are over the 80% Amphibious limit - that is odd. They are at 86%, 85%, 84%...