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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR

 
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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/30/2016 10:24:10 PM   
RichMunn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

2nd - 9th August 1942

6. Well that was unexpected.... Admiral Forbes takes control of the two task forces. He orders his four carriers; Ark Royal, Furious, Eagle and Hermes to get into a position to launch all out air attacks on the enemy ships - ideally targeting the battleships. Four strikes are launched and all four are successful. At least two ships - possibly heavy cruisers are sunk by the men of the Fleet Air Arm.

7. Forbes sends his battleships and battlecruisers into action, but it soon becomes apparent that the Germans have at least four capital ships at sea. Worse still, King George V and Queen Elizabeth cannot get into the battle as the Nelson, Rodney, Hood and Repulse begin exchanging fire with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. The exchange is brutal, Gneisenau comes off worst against the two battlecruisers, while Scharnhorst suffers considerable damage against the 16-inch guns of Rodney and Nelson. Both German ships withdraw under a hail of shells.

8. At this point Forbes orders his cruisers to give chase and to try and get a torpedo attack going. The 18th Cruiser Squadron (Newcastle, Neptune, Birmingham and Glasgow) ignore the fact that there are two German battleships on their flanks and head straight for the burning Scharnhorst. The cruiser Birmingham takes hits from the 11-inch guns of Caesar and Anton turrets (the only two still operational) but behind her, Neptune appears out of the mist and smoke and launches two torpedoes at the German ship. One misses but the second hits and Scharnhorst is now a sitting duck.

9. Forbes now orders the 2nd Cruiser Squadron (Southampton, Arethusa, Belfast and Edinburgh) to adopt the same tactic. Unfortunately for them the Gneisenau is in better shape and all guns are working. However, for some reason the guns are not as accurate and only Arethusa suffers any significant damage as the cruisers make their high speed approach to close the range. Once again one torpedo (from Belfast) finds its home at Gneisenau reels under the blow and continues withdrawing to the northwest.

10. Forbes now commits the 2nd Escort Flotilla. Desperate to see the Scharnhorst sunk, he orders the 6 destroyers to follow the 18th Cruiser Squadron and effectively sneak in while the battleships gunfire is turned elsewhere. The tactic works like a dream. Three torpedoes find their target and the Scharnhorst sinks beneath the icy sea.





Oh Warspite -

I have a terrible confession to make.

In my game, getting on now for late 1941, HMS Warspite was lured into an ill-advised attack to help to finish off a damaged (but baiting) German destroyer, and together with 3 other British ships was sunk off the French coast.

I felt guilt when this happened.

My apologies.

Such a good game.

Your AAR is brilliant. (Creep smiley...)


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 541
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/31/2016 6:40:04 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichMunn


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1



Oh Warspite -

I have a terrible confession to make.

In my game....HMS Warspite was lured into an ill-advised attack.....and together with 3 other British ships was sunk off the French coast.

I felt guilt when this happened.

My apologies.

warspite1

You're dead to me RichMunn





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Post #: 542
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/31/2016 6:44:10 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		9th August 1942

Chernakovsky's 2nd Baltic Front are tasked with the destruction of 21st Panzerarmee, while units of the 3rd Baltic Front breakout from Polotsk to put pressure on the right flank of the German lines. The attack is successful in weakening the German panzer force - and forcing them to withdraw.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/31/2016 6:55:23 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 543
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/31/2016 7:02:52 PM   
warspite1


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The 4th Baltic Front, under Timoshenko, are tasked with breaking out from Minsk and Bobruysk. A feint on the right flank by 1st Corps and 2nd Light Tank Corps is designed to take the German attention away from the main event which is happening southeast of Minsk.




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 544
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/31/2016 7:11:01 PM   
warspite1


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Against my better judgement I am going to move forward here to. The plan will be to simply saturate the defenders and overwhelm them with greater numbers. The forces in the Crimea are too weak to attack so they will need to hold station while the other units advance.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/31/2016 7:18:35 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 545
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/31/2016 7:31:45 PM   
warspite1


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The general advance confirmed the presence of numerous Axis units but generally the operation was successful, with two Axis tank/panzer formations being hit hard (circled). However the dangers of moving too far too quickly is shown by the experience of 2nd Tank Corps, which ran into well dug-in German infantry and was seriously mauled in the subsequent melee.

It will be interesting to see what the Axis response will be.




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 546
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/1/2017 6:48:40 AM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

9th August 1942

Against my better judgement I am going to move forward here to. The plan will be to simply saturate the defenders and overwhelm them with greater numbers. The forces in the Crimea are too weak to attack so they will need to hold station while the other units advance.




Super.

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 547
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 3:56:03 AM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		9th August 1942

Reinforcements

Soviet Union
4 x Army (Talinn, 3 around Kharkov)
1 x Mechanised Corps (Kharkov)


MPP Expenditure

UK - Research AA, Command and Control, Armoured Warfare and Paratroops
USA - Nothing
USSR - Reinforce and Upgrade a few units (most moved) then save




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 4:01:09 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 548
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:04:00 AM   
warspite1


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First Midway, now Guadalcanal. The Japanese - those with any sense of reality - are starting to realise what they have done.... But with a properly co-ordinated, sensible plan of attack, they could cause the Americans problems on this island and the waters around it.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 4:05:07 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 549
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:20:42 AM   
warspite1


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Again we treat the AI turn and the Allies turn as one where appropriate (which is increasingly more and more theatres as the German attacks cease or at least become fewer in number).

The end of the Kriegsmarine is nigh - but they are determined to go down fighting. The stricken Gneisenau, in order to buy time for her battleship companions, charges for HMS Rodney and HMS Nelson. The battlecuiser sinks in a hail of shot and shell from the British warships.

This selfless action gives time for Admiral Lutjens to attempt an escape. Both German battleships engage the two British light cruiser squadrons, inflicting further damage on them, before heading south.

Sadly for both ships they head directly into the path of the cruiser screens protecting the aircraft carriers....

Bismarck is in the best condition of the two German ships, and so the British concentrate on her. Firstly the battleships KGV and Queen Elizabeth turn their guns on to the Bismarck from 20,000 yards, inflicting damage that causes Lutjens to withdraw - straight into the clutches of Hood and Repulse - who between them manage to take Bismarck's Anton turret out. Nelson and Rodney then come back into the action and turn the Bismarck into a fiery hulk before the torpedoes of the 12th Cruiser Squadron sink the Bismarck.

The Royal Navy - unable to fly their aircraft due to the weather conditions - then circle the sole surviving German battleship.....




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 4:57:47 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 550
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:37:32 AM   
warspite1


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Off the northwest coast of Ireland a Wolf Pack is spotted - but despite the attention of no less than 4 flotillas - the U-Boats are barely harmed. Is this new German tech, the Admiralty wonders?

Finally a German CV was spotted in the Norwegian fjords in the south of the Country. But a search by submarines, battlecruisers and cruisers does not yield any find.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 5:26:54 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 551
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:53:37 AM   
warspite1


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In the desert the Americans cannot land their HQ or Artillery (I am guessing I need a port). So the 2nd Army (with II Corps attached) re-double efforts to take Benghazi. The US/RN fleets set up a protective screen around the transports. Meanwhile, around Gazala the US 1st Army (Canadian 1st Corps attached) holds station, to await the expected Axis counter.




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 552
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 5:00:15 AM   
warspite1


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As the British push west and try and drive the Axis from western Egypt, the Italian units remain the focus of attack. The Alpini Corps is almost destroyed by a combination of infantry and tank attack.

The Allied air force continue to be roughly treated in any exchange however...




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 553
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 5:30:56 AM   
warspite1


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Here is a summary of events from the AI turn:




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 5:31:21 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 554
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 5:34:22 AM   
warspite1


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The sole loss for the Soviets, 33rd Army, took place in the Crimea, where the Soviet forces are looking a little stretched.




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 555
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 5:35:45 AM   
warspite1


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With no army in the peninsular, the only practical way of helping is to get the 4th Ukrainian Front moving west as quickly as possible. Knowing that help is coming from the east, the Army of the Crimea can then attack - safe in the knowledge that the Germans are unlikely to hit back (that's the theory anyway).

After an initial aerial assault had no effect, the German 11th Army is attacked from two sides by the Soviets 4th Mechanised Corps and 9th Corps. Forced to withdraw, 10th Corps then steps into the hole created and attacks von Kuchler's HQ.

Meanwhile the 4th Ukrainian Front launch their move forward, spearheaded by 48th Rifle Corps, which liberates Meltopol and then drives on to attack a Nebelwerfer battery that was assisting the attack in the Crimea. All other formations of the Front then move forward, although no further contact with the enemy is made.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 5:52:01 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 556
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 5:55:18 AM   
warspite1


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Seemingly without the reserves to do so, the Germans continue to hammer away at Parnu, while its main tank strength is whittled away using unco-ordinated attacks west of Ostrov. The Soviets will try and surround these exposed units....




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 5:57:31 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 557
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 6:07:25 AM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		23rd August 1942

The 14th Rifle Corps push onto the outskirts of Riga without anything barring their way. This puts two German formations in a pocket that following units desperately try and close.

Where will help come from? The Germans have a large formation of units located around Daugvapils to the southeast, but they are themselves being attacked by a Soviet army and three corps - which have steamrollered past the remnants of the German Panzergruppe. Furthermore, and just out of the picture, the Soviet 12th Mechanised Corps is threatening both Kaunas or the surrounding of the German units around Daugvapils.

As can be seen, many of the Soviet units are becoming understrength and will need to rest and re-group. However the Germans are not looking in fantastic shape either.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/3/2017 6:29:21 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 558
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 6:17:50 AM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Sadly its that work thing again, which means I cannot finish off this turn now....

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 7:55:10 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Status: offline 		Do you really get up at 4 am just to play this game? Admirable!

(in reply to warspite1)
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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 10:01:25 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Sadly its that work thing again, which means I cannot finish off this turn now....


now if you moved to Scotland this wouldn't be a problem (as we get an extra bank holiday to ease recovery from the New Year events)

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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 1:04:07 PM   
terje439


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Status: offline 		Hmm, the last few pics of the Axis forces makes me wonder, as I see the same here as I do in my own games, is the AI too obsessed with upgrading its units, espesially the movement upgrade? If the AI had skipped all those movement upgrades, they should have been able to field quite a few more units...

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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 1:39:11 PM   
sapper32


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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Hmm, the last few pics of the Axis forces makes me wonder, as I see the same here as I do in my own games, is the AI too obsessed with upgrading its units, espesially the movement upgrade? If the AI had skipped all those movement upgrades, they should have been able to field quite a few more units...


Yeah I'm starting to see in my game as Allies that even in late 1941 I'm not seeing any real danger from the Axis Barbarosa , yes there still attacking and in some areas having to give ground but I'm also destroying Axis units I've just easily destroyed a Panzergruppe, I'm wondering if I should give the AI maximum advantage in game setup

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 563
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:05:35 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Zimmermann

Do you really get up at 4 am just to play this game? Admirable!
warspite1

LOL! No - but if I wake up and can't get back to sleep - happening more and more in my frail dotage - then I might as well do something useful


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 564
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:06:25 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Sadly its that work thing again, which means I cannot finish off this turn now....


now if you moved to Scotland this wouldn't be a problem (as we get an extra bank holiday to ease recovery from the New Year events)
warspite1

It wouldn't be a problem....except I would have to move to Scotland so......


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 565
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:07:57 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Hmm, the last few pics of the Axis forces makes me wonder, as I see the same here as I do in my own games, is the AI too obsessed with upgrading its units, espesially the movement upgrade? If the AI had skipped all those movement upgrades, they should have been able to field quite a few more units...
warspite1

Yeah I've been surprised by how few units the Germans seem to have. Of course they have to keep attacking, but with so few units that means getting isolated and surrounded.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 566
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:10:07 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper32


quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Hmm, the last few pics of the Axis forces makes me wonder, as I see the same here as I do in my own games, is the AI too obsessed with upgrading its units, espesially the movement upgrade? If the AI had skipped all those movement upgrades, they should have been able to field quite a few more units...


Yeah I'm starting to see in my game as Allies that even in late 1941 I'm not seeing any real danger from the Axis Barbarosa , yes there still attacking and in some areas having to give ground but I'm also destroying Axis units I've just easily destroyed a Panzergruppe, I'm wondering if I should give the AI maximum advantage in game setup
warspite1

Well this is my second game and I'm at best a less than average wargamer, so yes I think the AI needs some additional help based on this AAR and others experience.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to sapper32)
Post #: 567
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:48:26 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
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Status: offline 		16th August 1942

North of the Pripyat, Timoshenko's 4th Baltic Front are also ideally placed it seems to launch an encirclement of German forces near Minsk...




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 568
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 4:56:41 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
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Status: offline 		23rd August 1942

The attack is deemed a success. On the right flank the 3rd Cavalry Division is put under pressure by I Rifle Corps and the 2nd Light Tank Corps, but better news still is that XX Corps is destroyed south of Minsk and thus opening up Timoshenko's left flank. Using the old military maxim that one should always reinforce success, the 1st Shock Tank Army is transferred to Timoshenko and, together with the 1st Tank Army, they set out for Pinsk.




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 569
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 1/3/2017 5:00:53 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		16th August 1942

Finally we come to the remaining three Fronts - Ukrainian 1-3 inc - and there is a Soviet dagger pointed directly at Cherkassy....




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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