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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Road to Leningrad - Ports

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Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/26/2016 7:01:21 PM

adek670

Posts: 281
Joined: 9/21/2010
From: Twickenham
Status: offline

Hello,

Over the holidays I've updated my WitE and started to get back into this great game.

Appears a lot has changed with the game mechanics, since the early days.

I wonder if you can help provide a quick answer to an issue that I cant seem to find an answer for in the manual.

I'm tacking the Road to Leningrad scenario and can take Riga in turn one and Tallinn during turn two. However, these ports don't seem to become immediately available
for transport moves or offer supply in the subsequent turns.

I've checked the manual regarding the supply grid: "Ports can also be connected to the supply grid, allowing tracing of supply over water. Units must be able to trace to the supply grid to be in supply"

Can anyone explain / point me in the right direction for additional rules around port use please? And possibly explain why in the scenario, I cant make use of the ports when I've taken control of them.

Cheers,

Ade

Post #: 1

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/26/2016 7:18:52 PM

Disgruntled Veteran

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reaper

Hello,

Over the holidays I've updated my WitE and started to get back into this great game.

Appears a lot has changed with the game mechanics, since the early days.

I wonder if you can help provide a quick answer to an issue that I cant seem to find an answer for in the manual.

I'm tacking the Road to Leningrad scenario and can take Riga in turn one and Tallinn during turn two. However, these ports don't seem to become immediately available
for transport moves or offer supply in the subsequent turns.

I've checked the manual regarding the supply grid: "Ports can also be connected to the supply grid, allowing tracing of supply over water. Units must be able to trace to the supply grid to be in supply"

Can anyone explain / point me in the right direction for additional rules around port use please? And possibly explain why in the scenario, I cant make use of the ports when I've taken control of them.

Cheers,

Ade

Open up the factory icon under map info and check the damage level to the port. Especially if you had to fight for the city like Riga. Its too damaged to use.

(in reply to adek670)

Post #: 2

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/26/2016 7:19:36 PM

EwaldvonKleist

Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

Ports need to repair first. I think there are some lines in the manual, try to type "Port repair" into the PDF reader search bar.

(in reply to adek670)

Post #: 3

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/27/2016 2:15:48 PM

Telemecus

Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline

Also in the case of Riga it sometimes cannot trace supply over sea if other Soviet controlled ports surround it. You can see when you trace the move of a unit in naval transport mode and find it cannot go through the mouth of the bay in which Riga resides. Similarly to get to Talinn you need to take a long route around Soviet controlled sea which may mean you do not have strategic movement points to get to Talinn. I think this is hard coded to frustrate the exploit I use of shipping units to Talinn on turn 2. I can do it from Liepaja or Ventspils but some of the other ports may be too far as a result.

Conclusion - capturing those pesky Baltic islands does have some strategic value after all.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 12/27/2016 3:13:34 PM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 4

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/27/2016 3:36:32 PM

adek670

Posts: 281
Joined: 9/21/2010
From: Twickenham
Status: offline

hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies. I did a search for "Port Repair" in the .pdf - no hits. However, it does appear that the Ports are damaged and this is the reason why they are not connected to my supply route. What seems odd is the two different ports in question. I fought a battle to take Riga and can naturally assume that this caused the damage to the port (showing 96 at start of turn 2). In the case of Tallinn, I simply moved a motorised Division onto the port hex without incurring a battle. Why then does Tallinn show 99 damage despite no fighting taking place?

From this I presume that damage to ports is automatically set to 99 when you take them over, regardless of if fighting took place or not. Is this how it should be? I cant find a reference to this in the manual.

Ade

< Message edited by Reaper -- 12/27/2016 3:38:06 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)

Post #: 5

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/27/2016 3:48:41 PM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

It should be in patch notes. This was necessary to prevent supply system exploitation, especially on Black Sea coast, where intact ports allowed ahistorical penetration depth. Problem was increased by the fact that as soon as working port level reached one, it had unlimited capacity to supply. Small ports are closed for a long time with this fix, but big ports (level 10) are open after 4 turns. That's not too much. Assume it takes some time to organize regular shipping of notable capacity to a newly conquered port.

(in reply to adek670)

Post #: 6

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/27/2016 3:50:29 PM

adek670

Posts: 281
Joined: 9/21/2010
From: Twickenham
Status: offline

HI Telemecus,

I had a quick play around with the shipping route from Pillau at the start of turn two. It seems I can happily send units to Finland (Helsinki etc) despite not taking the soviet controlled ports in the Baltic Islands - the graphic path still shows 29 one hex away from Tallinn, so I think that isn't necessarily the issue here.

Ade

(in reply to adek670)

Post #: 7

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/27/2016 3:54:05 PM

adek670

Posts: 281
Joined: 9/21/2010
From: Twickenham
Status: offline

Hi Morvael,

Thanks for the confirmation -- i'll take a look through the patch notes - probably tons more changes I've not picked up about supply.

Cheers,

Ade

(in reply to adek670)

Post #: 8

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/27/2016 4:14:57 PM

adek670

Posts: 281
Joined: 9/21/2010
From: Twickenham
Status: offline

HI,

I've not found any reference to the ports - must have been in a much earlier patch release. I found a WitE condensed rules: V1.08.03, and it mentions: "Ports and rail yards are treated as factories in terms of capture, damage and repair, but they play only a peripheral part in the production system".

The reference to factory damage is: "With the exception of manpower factories (21.1.10.3), factories that remain will receive a variable amount of damage (damage will be added to the factories equal to 25 + random(75)percent (not to exceed 100 percent)"

So, is port damage now a fixed figure rather than the calculation for factories?

I cant find any reference to the repair rate for ports.

Ade

(in reply to adek670)

Post #: 9

RE: Road to Leningrad - Ports - 12/27/2016 4:15:08 PM

Telemecus

Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reaper

HI Telemecus,

I had a quick play around with the shipping route from Pillau at the start of turn two. It seems I can happily send units to Finland (Helsinki etc) despite not taking the soviet controlled ports in the Baltic Islands - the graphic path still shows 29 one hex away from Tallinn, so I think that isn't necessarily the issue here.

Ade

Yes only Riga is closed off. Off the Baltic coast there is usually a spur of Soviet control just to the West of Talinn but it does not reach Finland. For me at least it just means a long way round there. I do not have latest version so cannot comment on the latest patches.

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael
Problem was increased by the fact that as soon as working port level reached one, it had unlimited capacity to supply. Small ports are closed for a long time with this fix, but big ports (level 10) are open after 4 turns. That's not too much. Assume it takes some time to organize regular shipping of notable capacity to a newly conquered port.

I know in the west it took a long time to use captured ports. During the Battle of the Bulge most supplies were being landed on the beeches of Normandy. The Germans were very good at blowing up facilities, putting blocks into harbour entrances, and laying mines even without combat units. I have not read about ports on
the Eastern front but I assume the Soviets could make ports inoperable rather than it being a lack of shipping.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 12/27/2016 4:23:18 PM >

(in reply to adek670)

Post #: 10