TRACOM and pilot replacements

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

TRACOM and pilot replacements

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> TRACOM and pilot replacements

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 5:44:30 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

So, after playing for many months in multiple Allied PBEMs I realized something--I have no idea how TRACOM works, and its relationship to pilot replacements.

For example, in one PBEM it is nearly October, and despite funneling in every eligible pilot to TRACOM, I have yet to see a replacement pilot that did not look exactly the same as the replacements I was pulling at the beginning of the game.

I would just look at the manual, but that would require me to contact Matrix directly since the copy that I have is missing the relevant pages. Any elucidation on this subject would be helpful! :D

_____________________________

Playing at war is a far better vocation than making people fight in them.

Post #: 1

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 5:51:02 PM

InfiniteMonkey

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline

TRACOM pilots do not improve overall experience of the pool, it increases the rate of graduation. Each month, each of 12 classes "graduates" to the next month's training, one exits, and one enrolls. Essentially, TRACOM pilots help trainees skip a grade from time to time.

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 2

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 5:58:12 PM

Macclan5

Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline

The newbie FAQ in the War room knows all.

Even when not a newbie...

I constantly refer back to this..

16.3 - PILOT REPLACEMENTS/TRAINING:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2317995

I can't speak to the specifics of your game (losses and such), but EXP is not meant to increase at all due to TRACOM. EXP will generally remain at the National average.
Why? Because their training is done. The TRACOMs all have a fully trained "standard". In other words after a year or so of training the IJNAF expects a product that meets minimum requirements to move on to Combat planes. That is the national average you see.

HOWEVER...when your losses become excessive and you begin to dip into your reserves, the additional pilot instructors providing that extra "oomph" are there to hold up your National average, or following a dip in average EXP due to a lost war you might re-establish the National Average after seeing a precipitous drop.

EXP is NOT meant to ever go higher than the National Average. Only be maintained or the rate of replacements accelerated to fill holes in operational units. That is the Spirit of the TRACOM.

Once replacement pilots leave the TRACOM, further training must occur on map.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2618975

Pilots 'classification' is always updated based on the current plane type just BEFORE he gets reassigned.

There is an EXP hit to the pilot when being ASSIGNED to a group flying a different plane type (e.g. fighter pilot assigned to a patrol group) of about 10-20%.
His skill set isn't affected just his general flying experience

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2168708

If you change the commander of an air unit, there is usually a delay of a day or more for the new commander to arrive. When he does, you get the message that the old leader is now free for reassignment.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2472496

Training Naval Air Units:
Starting in late 42 you start getting CVEs with VR squadrons. These squadrons are ahistoric, but are a carry over from WitP and are necessary for the AI to work properly.

I unloaded all my VR squadrons in ports and set them to train 100% for the mission the plane flies. As pilots get up to good skill levels, I move them to the reserve pool and replace them with green pilots. By mid-1943 I had a constant stream of trained pilots in the USN pool. The empty CVEs are useful for plane ferries or you could put USMC squadrons on them. In 1943 you start getting some VC squadrons that aren't assigned to carriers and when the SBD-5 becomes available the inshore patrol squadrons (shore based Kingfisher squadrons) can upgrade to SBD-5s which can be put on carriers.

The now shore based VR squadrons will still fill out carriers that come within range needing replacement aircraft. I have the VR squadrons in most of the ports I use for CV operations.

Catalina sqns can Train USN Torpedo skills.
Kingfisher sqns can Train USN Dive Bomber & Fighter Skills (Sweep Trains Fighter skills)

Training maxes out at 70 (very rarely can go above) and pilots gain experience slower as they approach 70. Getting into the 50s is easy, then it will be a slower learning curve to 70

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2317995

There is some behind the scenes action with training of raw pilots and TRACOM.

The number of TRACOM guys can increase the month's EXP rating of the raw pilots.
If the new EXP exceeds the national EXP, then a random number of pilots will 'graduate' early.
When this happens, you get a message "instructors accelerate training of" in the operation report.

In general, this jump is only going to occur in the last month of training, unless you add a huge number of pilots to TRACOM.

A rough guide is: for every 10 in TRACOM (of the correct nationality), the monthly EXP might be increased by one.

Adjustments to the pilot training happens on the first day of the month.
The monthly EXP increase of the raw pilots (ignoring TRACOM effect) is a random amount (-2 to +2).
The new monthly EXP starts out as an average of the pilots in the month and those moving from the previous month.

< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 1/3/2017 6:00:02 PM >

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)

Post #: 3

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 6:04:03 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

quote:

Starting in late 42 you start getting CVEs with VR squadrons. These squadrons are ahistoric, but are a carry over from WitP and are necessary for the AI to work properly.

I unloaded all my VR squadrons in ports and set them to train 100% for the mission the plane flies. As pilots get up to good skill levels, I move them to the reserve pool and replace them with green pilots. By mid-1943 I had a constant stream of trained pilots in the USN pool. The empty CVEs are useful for plane ferries or you could put USMC squadrons on them. In 1943 you start getting some VC squadrons that a

Thank you, gentlemen! This explains much.

I have one ancillary question. Float fighters. Do these count as fighter aircraft, patrol aircraft, or strike aircraft? Fighter is in the name; however, upgrade paths often lead to bombers and recon aircraft.

Personally, I've been using the large squadrons of them the allied player gets as spare naval aviation trainers. This is because you can get whatever you want out of them! You can train them to sweep, and get fighter pilots, train them to strike and get dive bomber pilots, or train them for the recon roll only.

_____________________________

Playing at war is a far better vocation than making people fight in them.

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 4

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 6:44:48 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought
I have one ancillary question. Float fighters. Do these count as fighter aircraft, patrol aircraft, or strike aircraft? Fighter is in the name; however, upgrade paths often lead to bombers and recon aircraft.
Personally, I've been using the large squadrons of them the allied player gets as spare naval aviation trainers.

Wait, Allies get float fighters like Japanese Rufe or Rex(those count as Fighter)? Never heard of it (well, to be fair I do not know Allied OOB as good as Japanese). Kingfishers whcih allies have a bunch are Float Patrols, with recruits majoring in Naval Search not Air2Air.

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 5

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 7:43:02 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought
I have one ancillary question. Float fighters. Do these count as fighter aircraft, patrol aircraft, or strike aircraft? Fighter is in the name; however, upgrade paths often lead to bombers and recon aircraft.
Personally, I've been using the large squadrons of them the allied player gets as spare naval aviation trainers.

Wait, Allies get float fighters like Japanese Rufe or Rex(those count as Fighter)? Never heard of it (well, to be fair I do not know Allied OOB as good as Japanese). Kingfishers whcih allies have a bunch are Float Patrols, with recruits majoring in Naval Search not Air2Air.

Kingfishers = float fighters in the sense that they can be sent on sweep missions (not cap). Therefore, you can (and I have) train pilots in air-to-air and strafe on them, and then funnel them over to front line naval fighter units.

_____________________________

Playing at war is a far better vocation than making people fight in them.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 6

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 8:03:05 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

Yes, experienced Allied players tend to use kingfishers as fighter pilot trainers.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 7

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 8:27:37 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought
Kingfishers = float fighters in the sense that they can be sent on sweep missions (not cap). Therefore, you can (and I have) train pilots in air-to-air and strafe on them, and then funnel them over to front line naval fighter units.

Kingfishers are Float planes (FP tag) just like any other float plane airgroup. No float Fighters for Allies.

To train Navy fighter pilots in FPs, you can train any skill as a secondary to build up Def (Swp/NavB can even come up useful sometime), or you can fly CAP to build xp and some Air by choosing ASW/Search and rolling up a CAP slider.

By the way, does higher altitude Sweep training train Air as efficiently as direct training in a fighter group?

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 1/3/2017 8:47:03 PM >

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 8

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 8:48:33 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

quote:

Navy fighter pilots in FPs, you can train any skill as a secondary to build up Def (Swp/NavB can even come up useful sometime), or you can fly CAP by choosing ASW/Search and rolling up a CAP slider.

Yes, sweep is the only way to train their air-to-air skill. I usually train sweep until the air skill is 70, then ground attack at 100ft until their defense is 70 and their strafe is 70. From there, as you say, you can order them any number of missions to get their general experience up and you have trained fighter pilots.

_____________________________

Playing at war is a far better vocation than making people fight in them.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 9

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/3/2017 9:45:55 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought
Yes, sweep is the only way to train their air-to-air skill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
.. you can fly CAP to build xp and some Air by choosing ASW/Search and rolling up a CAP slider.

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 10

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 2:06:14 AM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

By the way, does higher altitude Sweep training train Air as efficiently as direct training in a fighter group?

From my experience, all other things being equal, it seems too.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 11

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 12:04:48 PM

LargeSlowTarget

Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline

From my experience the effect of TRACOM is quite limited. I have about 200 IJN and 100 IJA pilots in TRACOM (I send all eligible pilots to TRACOM) and I have seen the message indicating that instructors have advanced the training cycle for a few dozen trainees only three or four times (game is in April 1943). I hoped for better results, but maybe that is WAD. I use TRACOM to park elite pilots until better planes become available (PDU off game) - any advancement of trainees is just a bonus.

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 12

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 3:24:59 PM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

For Allies TRACOM is definitely only limited value.

As I play Allies exclusively, I use it to storage for ace pilots to make elite fighter squadrons later.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)

Post #: 13

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 6:10:05 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

For Allies TRACOM is definitely only limited value.

As I play Allies exclusively, I use it to storage for ace pilots to make elite fighter squadrons later.

Yep, that is about it for me too. For the Allies it is just a convenient place to store aces.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 14

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 7:14:07 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yep, that is about it for me too. For the Allies it is just a convenient place to store aces.

Good to know. I think there should also be a pool where I can send them to generate war bond sales that turn into extra replacement aircraft.

_____________________________

Playing at war is a far better vocation than making people fight in them.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 15

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 10:40:52 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

From my experience the effect of TRACOM is quite limited. I have about 200 IJN and 100 IJA pilots in TRACOM (I send all eligible pilots to TRACOM) and I have seen the message indicating that instructors have advanced the training cycle for a few dozen trainees only three or four times (game is in April 1943). I hoped for better results, but maybe that is WAD. I use TRACOM to park elite pilots until better planes become available (PDU off game) - any advancement of trainees is just a bonus.

So, with so many pilots in the pool I would suspect you would get many more. I hadn't had any in so long I felt the thing was busted, as I remember my first games getting many consistently each month. It was with a vary old patch which I wouldn't change because I was trying to learn and didn't want to have to deal with 'the new' in mid-game.

So in my current game I started with the next to last beta as that was what was available when I started. No Joy. Still no pilot advancement for January/February. TBH not the many pilots in the pool, so not much expected.

Well I patched to the latest and greatest and got the advance. Not sure if that's why though and I'll tell you why. Recently hit a link in a post that I hadn't seen before and MichaelM was discussing the topic (2010). Now I'm paraphrasing here so... It seems in order to get the advancement you need to get the trainees experience up a bit. He said there is a minor fluctuation of ~ -2/+2 in the experience of the pilots in the pool. Makes sense. Well the TRACOM pilots apparently help edge that number up and get the advancement. I imagine once done the number is reset and we go again. Of course that's merely speculation, but to me makes sense. Then off you go, and it repeats.

If you noticed there was a discussion on this recently where someone had large numbers of pilots in TRACOM and his rookies had massive experience levels. Maybe the magic number wasn't resetting somehow. This was moved the the TECH page and I suspect MrM corrected the issue and put things in order in one of the latest patches.

Now I know its all under the hood and as I've said I would have it no other way, but I think all is well with TRACOM advances again. The reason I say this is that once my March turn flipped I received 138 IJN pilots advancing from month 10. I only have 19 IJA and 21 IJN pilots in the TRACOM currently so its my guess that with all die rolls and such I'll not see too much more of this until I get:
1) more pilots in the pool, or
2) that magic number builds enough to allow more pilots to advance.
Either way we'll see.

Again its a lot of speculation here, but we'll see. I would expect with the number of pilots that you have in the TRACOM your results would be much better. In my last game I had gone to Dec '42 and had several hundred pilots in TRACOM just as you have and not one advanced the entire game. Who knows with this creature though, it could have all been just bad 'die rolls' after all. At any rate I will keep commenting on what I find as I progress with my current effort.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 1/5/2017 9:00:07 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)

Post #: 16

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 11:06:33 PM

SheperdN7

Posts: 296
Joined: 2/23/2016
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Status: offline

I only use TRACOM as Japan and honestly the main purpose isn't even really for the training, its mostly for stockpiling a couple hundred awesome pilots for use in late war toys.

_____________________________

Current Games:

WitP:AE PBEM against Greg (Late '44)
AE PBEM against Mogami (Early'44)
WITE PBEM against Boomer Sooner

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 17

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/4/2017 11:17:15 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

I only use TRACOM as Japan and honestly the main purpose isn't even really for the training, its mostly for stockpiling a couple hundred awesome pilots for use in late war toys.

Ah, but the thing here is that for Japan getting those 'rookies' through the training cycle saves HI. It costs Japan 5 HI per pilot per month to train those puppies. So the quicker I can get 'em through the more HI I save, so I can build more planes than the Allies.

Kidding. But seriously the more HI I can save, the better.

_____________________________

(in reply to SheperdN7)

Post #: 18

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/5/2017 3:27:39 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yep, that is about it for me too. For the Allies it is just a convenient place to store aces.

Good to know. I think there should also be a pool where I can send them to generate war bond sales that turn into extra replacement aircraft.

That's what TRACOM is, but all the extra replacement aircraft went to the European Theater.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 19

RE: TRACOM and pilot replacements - 1/5/2017 2:15:22 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yep, that is about it for me too. For the Allies it is just a convenient place to store aces.

Good to know. I think there should also be a pool where I can send them to generate war bond sales that turn into extra replacement aircraft.

That's what TRACOM is, but all the extra replacement aircraft went to the European Theater.