Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> The War Room >>

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

- 6/18/2003 9:54:27 PM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

[B]I do not know about the Navy side of the house, but the US Army transitioned from the broken, underfunded post-Vietnam Army of the late 70's to a tremendously capable fighting force by the time Ronald Reagan left office in January 1989. Today's Army is in large part a product of the rebirth under the Reagan administration.[/B]

Nobody is questioning that Reagan did great things for the Navy. It is a matter of naming a ship for a poltical figure whose politics many people disagree with when the ship itself is an apolitical entity and shouldn't be seen to support one side or the other. I would be saying the same thing if there was a USS William Clinton (even if he had won the medal of honor and increased military spending 10 fold). The name of a ship should be non-partisan, just something supportive of US History or America in general like the USS Constitution, USS Enterprise, etc. You want a name everyone on the ship can feel inspired by, not just people of a specific political persuasion.

[B]Not to mention, some would argue that the increased military expenditures and increase in capability made a significant (if not decisive) contribution to ending the cold war.[/B]

Personally I think it was just a matter of time, the Soviet Union was corrupt and rotting from within. If someone else had been in office at the time they would have gotten (false) credit for winning the cold war. I think the people who deserve the most credit are the countless veterans who served and put their lives on the line from 1945-1991 to stand up to communism.

_____________________________

"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan

"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket

"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 31

- 6/19/2003 4:41:07 AM

Zeta16

Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline

Well if we are not going to use political figures why doesn't anyone bring up the Truman, Kennedy, and FDR.

_____________________________

"Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." -Ronald Reagan

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 32

- 6/19/2003 5:33:43 AM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

It is perfectly ok to name a ship after someone already dead to honour them.

It is extremely poor form to name it after someone who has not died yet.

One could almost call it a bad omen.

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 33

- 6/19/2003 6:32:28 AM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

[B]Well if we are not going to use political figures why doesn't anyone bring up the Truman, Kennedy, and FDR.[/B]

I didnt bring them up because I didnt want to go back and think of every ship named after a politician. I just made an example of the most recent case.

_____________________________

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 34

American ship naming patterns...or want of them - 6/20/2003 10:45:27 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

The English and French had some excellent ship naming practices, at least for their major capital ships. Names like Devastation, Terror, Monarch, Warspite, Illustrious, Victory, Swiftsure, Dreadnought, Revenge, La Fantastique, Heros, Vengeur, Terrible, Temeraire...the list goes on. Very inspirational. Japanese destroyers and aircraft carriers were named well too. Naming subs after fish makes sense. Ships named for famous warriors and leaders like the German practice for capital ships and American destroyers also has great merit. Commemorating famous battles should be a given.

However, there is nothing more boring than naming ships after places. :rolleyes:

Moreover, there is also nothing more annoying than not following a standard for ship classes. What were they thinking when the Yorktown class is named respectively after a Revolutionary battle, an endeavour, and a bug? Or the Seawolf class is named after a fish, a state, and a president who dabbled in nuclear physics? Have a plan...one that politicians can't frig around with!

Worst name for a ship in your opinion?

Mine is the Flower Class corvette HMS PINK!:eek: How would a German U Boat Commander say "Take a dink and stick it in the PINK", possibly something said as a torpedo is fired at the corvette.:D

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 35

- 6/20/2003 10:06:54 PM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

Worst names?

HMS Glowworm

IJN Taiho (translates to Big Lucky Bird or Big Happy Bird)

_____________________________

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 36

Worst name - 6/20/2003 10:47:50 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

The name "Ain't Scared 'o Nothin" was apparently offered as the name for South Carolina, the USN first true dreadnought!:D

USS Deliverance?:p

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 37

- 6/20/2003 10:59:04 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B][B]I say we go back to famous historical names like Wasp and Ranger.[/B]

That is exactly what I think should be done, and for the same reason. Carl Stennis was a known racist and war monger but did a lot for the navy so he has a carrier named for him. Reagan had many political opponents...the next CVN has already been named George HW Bush, so it seems like they are isolating democrats. Although I fully agree that Bush Sr is a war hero and deserves the ship name. You want to have names that will unite, not divide. Especially as you have higher and higher rates of minorities and women in the military who might be offended by someone like Reagan.

What is wrong with Enterprise, Yorktown or Hornet?

[B]Well let's hope there is never a USS William Jefferson Clinton! But he did act like a typical Navy puke, so many navy enlisted men would love so serve on it. However, I do not think a President who cut the military and detested it so much would ever get a ship named after him. However in his three photo ops on Carriers he sure acted like he love the navy!!![/B]

Dubya Bush is making large cuts to the military too, I dont think taking advantage of the peace dividend warrants his not having a ship named after him. I think he shouldn't have a ship named after him because of the security damage he did to our country by selling nuclear secrets to the Chinese. [/B][/QUOTE]

Bush Sr. a war hero? Hell, he was merely one of thousands of late war pilots. Why not call Daffy Duck a war hero for all the propoganda work "he" did? The American military seems to award medals just for surviving or completing simple tasks. The amount of medals on most senior US officers makes many banana republic general's clusters look minimalist!:D

Gonna get in trouble here...:p

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 38

- 6/21/2003 1:06:32 AM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

[B]Bush Sr. a war hero? Hell, he was merely one of thousands of late war pilots. Why not call Daffy Duck a war hero for all the propoganda work "he" did? [/B]

I guess it depends on one's definition of the word 'hero'. I personally get really annoyed the way the media tosses the word around so that it loses all meaning. You rescue a cat from a tree and you're a hero on the six o'clock news.
George Bush Sr. destroyed an enemy ship, was shot down, wounded, and forced to survive at sea until he was rescued by a US sub. In my eyes he is a hero. Not in the sense of Auddie Murphy or Sergeant York, but I think people who exhibit bravery, self sacrafice and honor during combat are heroic.

[B]The American military seems to award medals just for surviving or completing simple tasks. [/B]

I disagree with that. Although the system which has allowed officers to recommend one another for medals is suspect, it isn't as easy for enlistedmen to receive medals like the Bronze/Silver star, Navy Cross, etc without a real display of courage under fire or valor.

_____________________________

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 39

- 6/21/2003 3:58:14 AM

TheElf

Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Well let's hope there is never a USS William Jefferson Clinton! But he did act like a typical Navy puke, so many navy enlisted men would love so serve on it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how to take this. First I'd like to hear your definition of a typical navy puke. Second I'd like to hear how, in your opinion, a typical Navy puke would love anything about that individual. Third, and most importantly, I'd like to know what military service you have under your belt that affords you the right to say anything about some of the most professional, hardworking, dedicated people I have ever had the honor to serve with.

You should be careful when throwing around generalizations like that... Someone might take offense.

_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 40

- 6/21/2003 7:41:27 AM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

[B]I'm not sure how to take this. First I'd like to hear your definition of a typical navy puke. Second I'd like to hear how, in your opinion, a typical Navy puke would love anything about that individual. Third, and most importantly, I'd like to know what military service you have under your belt that affords you the right to say anything about some of the most professional, hardworking, dedicated people I have ever had the honor to serve with.[/B]

I was kind of surprised no Navy guys had jumped all over his comment.

_____________________________

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 41

- 6/21/2003 9:20:49 AM

TheElf

Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

[QUOTE]I was kind of surprised no Navy guys had jumped all over his comment.[/QUOTE]

Snig,
Had I read it sooner, you wouldn't have had the opporunity to be suprised ;) Though I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have dignified such a stupid statement by responding to it. Call me rash.

_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 42

- 6/22/2003 12:45:15 AM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

I was in the Marine Corps (Reserves) but I dont have the typical Marine attitude toward the Navy (bunch of squids who provide taxi service for the Marines...they sit back on their ships eating jello while we're out there doing all the real work, etc). I used to think that way somewhat until I started studying Naval History and seeing how dangerous the Navy was and the bravery demonstrated by many people in the Navy. Now I have nothing but respect for them.

_____________________________

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 43

- 6/22/2003 1:54:39 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B]I was in the Marine Corps (Reserves) but I dont have the typical Marine attitude toward the Navy (bunch of squids who provide taxi service for the Marines...they sit back on their ships eating jello while we're out there doing all the real work, etc). I used to think that way somewhat until I started studying Naval History and seeing how dangerous the Navy was and the bravery demonstrated by many people in the Navy. Now I have nothing but respect for them. [/B][/QUOTE]

Way to pull off a fighting withdrawl, Matt!;) The Navy guys do have it rough, with all that rampant sodomy and no booze to kill the pain!!!:D

God, with this inter service rivalry ever stop.......?;) I'm really asking for it. Actually, I'm creating a diversion to facilitate Sniggy's withdrawl so he can get back to our game. He's giving me fits at the moment.:eek:

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 44

- 6/22/2003 8:56:02 AM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

[B]Way to pull off a fighting withdrawl, Matt! The Navy guys do have it rough, with all that rampant sodomy and no booze to kill the pain!!![/B]

I got in a good natured inter-branch insult exchange with an Army guy at a bar one time and he gave me the best Marine insult I'd heard: "You know why the Navy brings Marines on their ships with them? Sheep would be too obvious."
The best I had was "ARMY stands for 'Aint Ready for Marines Yet'"

_____________________________

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 45

- 6/22/2003 9:05:33 AM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snigbert
[B]
"You know why the Navy brings Marines on their ships with them? Sheep would be too obvious."
[/B][/QUOTE]

Now THAT is a good one!:D

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 46

- 6/23/2003 3:55:20 AM

Snigbert

Posts: 2956
Joined: 1/27/2002
From: Worcester, MA. USA
Status: offline

For some reason, whenever you tell a drunk person from another branch of the military that you're a Marine, they feel compelled to tell you the most offensive Marine joke they've heard and expect you to laugh it off :)

Lucky I have a good sense of humor.

_____________________________

(in reply to Kilroy)

Post #: 47