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D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 12:56:37 AM   
William049

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 1/18/2017
Status: offline 		I finally managed to get Russia on the ropes, after so many failed attempts.
Then the Allies launch a cross channel invasion more than a year before the historical date.
What gives? Is this game designed to make it impossible to achieve an Axis win?
Post #: 1
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 1:17:24 AM   
crispy131313


Posts: 2055
Joined: 11/30/2013
Status: offline 		I think it's great that the AI will counter non-historical gains in USSR with non-historical early D-Day.

(in reply to William049)
Post #: 2
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 3:48:39 AM   
Titan

 

Posts: 482
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: new Zealand
Status: offline 		I think its great....War is about the unexpected, That caught me out as well resulting in my defeat as axis. Didnt like it but respected it i didnt mind the loose

(in reply to crispy131313)
Post #: 3
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 6:54:08 AM   
DeriKuk


Posts: 359
Joined: 8/2/2005
From: Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

War is about the unexpected . . .


Except that, in this game, D-Day '43 is not unexpected. It is a solid, predictable "feature", and the human Axis player can never be expected to have the resources to deal with it.

Ultimately, this is a shallow, boring script-game with no replayability. [For the record: I have been a wargamer since the 1970s, and I am thoroughly familiar with the history of WW2.]

(in reply to Titan)
Post #: 4
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 8:25:56 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline 		What is almost guaranteed to make the Allies launch an early D-Day, is if Russia is in the ropes. If the Western Allies do nothing, then with the Soviets gone, the whole power of the Axis will be waiting for the '44 D-Day.

_____________________________

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“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

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(in reply to DeriKuk)
Post #: 5
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 11:27:24 AM   
William049

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 1/18/2017
Status: offline 		Exactly. It can't be "expected" for the Allies to have these resources to launch an invasion in 1943.
The most that ought to be expected is on in North Africa.
Why not expect an invasion from outer space also?

(in reply to DeriKuk)
Post #: 6
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 11:44:14 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		In the game, if the Allies don't do Torch in 1942 and follow up with landings at Italy in 1943, then it is reasonable to expect a D-Day in 1943, don't you think ?
Agree that the Allies did not have the resources to launch ten corps at once, but a three corps invasion is easily defeated and then there is no game. So the size of the force is a compromise.
See also - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4207744

(in reply to William049)
Post #: 7
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 4:16:10 PM   
William049

 

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Joined: 1/18/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

In the game, if the Allies don't do Torch in 1942 and follow up with landings at Italy in 1943, then it is reasonable to expect a D-Day in 1943, don't you think ?
Agree that the Allies did not have the resources to launch ten corps at once, but a three corps invasion is easily defeated and then there is no game. So the size of the force is a compromise.


Thanks for the link. It was helpful
Glad to see that there are others that have a problem with a '43 full scale invasion cross channel.
Now that I know about it, I can prepare for it.
I still think this is a grand game but needs some tweaking.


(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 8
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 4:19:35 PM   
Beruldsen

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 2/15/2011
Status: offline 		I've noticed if you create a sub/surface ship screen in the Atlantic ... you can significantly lesson the impact of an invasion. I pulled all Axis ships into the Atlantic ... you can sink a LOT of transports.

(in reply to William049)
Post #: 9
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/23/2017 7:21:16 PM   
DeriKuk


Posts: 359
Joined: 8/2/2005
From: Alberta
Status: offline 		Another D-Day '43 quirk is the result of throwing the Allies out of the Middle East. All of the Commonwealth units are rapidly rebuilt in Britain, and become available for the early D-Day invasion. It behooves the Axis player to pull his punches in North Africa . . . simply to keep the British units around, so that they do not show up in France.

This game needs separate manpower (military and industrial), raw materials, fuel and training variables - not the simplistic MMPs - to make it interesting and rich. There should be a loss in the quality of manpower as losses mount, as well as increases for gaining experience without catastrophic losses. Another parameter could be the variable placement of resource locations - within reasonable limits - on the map. That could make the strategic air war more interesting. A return - or not - air trip to Ploesti . . . anyone?

(in reply to Beruldsen)
Post #: 10
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/25/2017 4:13:08 PM   
William049

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 1/18/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arne Beruldsen

I've noticed if you create a sub/surface ship screen in the Atlantic ... you can significantly lesson the impact of an invasion. I pulled all Axis ships into the Atlantic ... you can sink a LOT of transports.


Yes indeed!
After being caught by surprise I am ready this time.
The transports are coming unescorted and I have a tremendous fleet of advanced level subs lying in silent mode ambush. It will be turkey shot next turn.

(in reply to Beruldsen)
Post #: 11
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/25/2017 4:32:55 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Scripted early D-Day is necessary imo and should be left as is to force the Axis to garrison the West. Otherwise they can strip that to the bone.

Honestly, the Axis is perfectly capable of winning even with this feature. I've done it, at least on normal and probably could do it on +1 although not +2.

I've even clinched a major AFTER a big 1943 landing in one game -- with the help of a fully upgraded Spanish military, backed up by some beefy units rushed in from the East Front. The Allies have no counter in 1943 for Axis heavy armor. 5-6 fighters in France will keep Allied airpower down to a dull roar.

Game would be much too easy for the Axis without the real threat of an early invasion.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to William049)
Post #: 12
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/25/2017 6:39:05 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

I have a tremendous fleet of advanced level subs lying in silent mode ambush.

The Allied ships will pass right over them unimpeded. You need to put them in Hunt mode to be effective. Hope I'm no too late !

(in reply to William049)
Post #: 13
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/26/2017 4:24:57 PM   
William049

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 1/18/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

I have a tremendous fleet of advanced level subs lying in silent mode ambush.

The Allied ships will pass right over them unimpeded. You need to put them in Hunt mode to be effective. Hope I'm no too late !


OH I didn't wait for that to happen. I was only waiting for them to come into range. They were wiped out.
Which brings up another question......why does the U.S continue to send transports to be slaughtered?
Next turn I will take Stalingrad, April ,1944 and win the game.
Things were so intense up until mid 1943 after which the AI falls apart and the game becomes disappointingly easy.



< Message edited by William049 -- 1/26/2017 5:21:23 PM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 14
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/26/2017 5:24:52 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

why does the U.S continue to send transports to be slaughtered?

I see the same thing - if Sealion is successful the computer US transports keep running into my German sub line west of Plymouth, England. Seems like there should be some sort of script to change areas if the first one fails. I don't know enough about Invasion Scripts to know if this is possible. From a couple previous games I am learning this and now I am getting better at defending one area that the computer concentrates on instead of worrying about all of Norway to Northwest Africa.

(in reply to William049)
Post #: 15
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/26/2017 11:04:48 PM   
MemoryLeak


Posts: 491
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Woodland, CA USA
Status: offline 		I just experienced the April 1943 Allied invasion of France. I was just starting to turn the tide in Russia and
now I have my back against the wall and the Allies are almost into Germany and it is November 1943.

Very unrealistic and, unless all you have to do in life is keep playing this game over and over again
until you find a gamey way to stop this ridiculously early invasion, very disappointing scripting.

The Allies are three units deep on the front all across France. Impossible to stop so why even bother playing a
game that can't be won?

That invasion should not be allowed to occur until June 1944.

. Plus the Allies have had jet fighters for several months and my air force has been decimated.



_____________________________

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USS Long Beach CGN-9
RM2 1969-1973

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 16
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/27/2017 3:21:05 AM   
Christolos


Posts: 953
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		It is December 1942 and I am slowly starting to turn the tide in Russia, but I am worried about a 43 invasion in the West. I can start preparing for it by transferring units from the east but this will bring my offensive to a grind again in the east...

I don't think that a 43 invasion of France by the Allies is necessarily a problem since it was always a possibility, but it should be relatively scaled down in terms of comparison to what would be possible in 44, especially if the Allies show up with jets!!!

The other issue I have is with the hard time the Axis player has to contend with in terms of dealing with pockets of trapped Russian units. It just seems like it takes way too long for the effects of 0 supply to render trapped units easier to shatter (see: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4203401 ) which in turn ties up a large number of Axis units for too long which makes an early success against Russia that much more difficult to accomplish...

I am only in my second game as the Axis and have made some mistakes re not always being able to maximize supply and perhaps even having spent too much on upgrades (I gave all my units in the east, including infantry units, mobility 1 thinking it would help, but I now think I should have only done this for the HQs and the mechanized units only so I could have produced more units instead...)

C

< Message edited by CC1 -- 1/27/2017 3:26:03 AM >

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 17
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/28/2017 8:51:24 AM   
The Land

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 2/19/2010
Status: offline 		Well, it's early October 42 and in the last couple of weeks the US lost 7 Corps and 2 Armies while moving troops across the Atlantic, in a battle which has also cost the Allies 4 carriers, 3 battleships, a cruiser and a destroyer - against 2 battleships, a cruiser and a destroyer for the Axis.

If they try to perform a D-Day in April '43 they will do it without half the troops, and might find that it never reaches land at all.

I'm feeling confident enough to move the reserves I was keeping in the West to the Eastern Front over the winter....

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 18
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/28/2017 9:05:38 AM   
Patrat


Posts: 107
Joined: 11/17/2016
Status: offline 		In real life a 43 invasion was more than a possibility if there was no major allied commitment to Africa. It was Torch and the prolonged Tunisian campaign that put the stop to a 43 D day. In other words, if there was no major commitment in Africa in 43, its pretty much certain that the allies would of invaded France in 43.

I really don't understand how people have such a hard time fending off a 43 invasion. Just garrison France like Hitler had to in real life and move reinforcements from Russia.

< Message edited by Patrat -- 1/28/2017 9:08:14 AM >

(in reply to The Land)
Post #: 19
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/28/2017 1:49:28 PM   
ParadogsGamer

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 1/10/2016
Status: offline 		A Solid tactic is to take out Britain before you go deep into Russia. No allied landing.

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Post #: 20
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/28/2017 2:34:47 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land

Well, it's early October 42 and in the last couple of weeks the US lost 7 Corps and 2 Armies while moving troops across the Atlantic, in a battle which has also cost the Allies 4 carriers, 3 battleships, a cruiser and a destroyer - against 2 battleships, a cruiser and a destroyer for the Axis.

If they try to perform a D-Day in April '43 they will do it without half the troops, and might find that it never reaches land at all.

I'm feeling confident enough to move the reserves I was keeping in the West to the Eastern Front over the winter....


Was it the AI that allowed the US to be massacred? That is really not very realistic!

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to The Land)
Post #: 21
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/28/2017 3:15:09 PM   
Christolos


Posts: 953
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land

Well, it's early October 42 and in the last couple of weeks the US lost 7 Corps and 2 Armies while moving troops across the Atlantic, in a battle which has also cost the Allies 4 carriers, 3 battleships, a cruiser and a destroyer - against 2 battleships, a cruiser and a destroyer for the Axis.

If they try to perform a D-Day in April '43 they will do it without half the troops, and might find that it never reaches land at all.

I'm feeling confident enough to move the reserves I was keeping in the West to the Eastern Front over the winter....


That's interesting. I imagine you ventured out with the entire Kriegsmarine to accomplish this...but where was the RN...or did you manage to render it ineffective as well?

It is now January 1943 in my game and you just gave me the idea to try something like this...although it may be too late if the bulk of the US forces have already arrived in England. Some reconnaissance is order

C.

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to The Land)
Post #: 22
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/28/2017 8:39:23 PM   
The Land

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 2/19/2010
Status: offline 		The German U-boats were positioned north of the Azores. The Italian fleet assembled off the north-west corner of Spain, and the German battlefleet made its way down from Norway. I also had a maritime bomber with level 2 long range in NW Spain, though it only played a marginal role.

On the first turn only the U-boats attacked (where they could find targets, sank a transport or two). On the second turn there was a bit of a bloodbath of the USN and the transports. After my 2nd turn the RN appeared who had been hiding in the Irish Sea (having refused to engage me over the Arctic convoys all summer) attacking with 3 carriers and a battleship. On my third turn I cleared out those RN units. That's where things stand now - there is one US battleship and several British ones still alive, and if they come out to play now I will take more casualties but probably annihiliate them. That would leave me in a fairly happy position for the rest of the game...


(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 23
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/31/2017 8:21:04 PM   
Christolos


Posts: 953
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks The Land.

Well it looks like it is too late for me as I just experienced an all out May 1943 D-day assault at three points simultaneously!!! In Brittany, In Normandy, and at Le Havre. I can understand a 1943 invasion but to this extent and all at once, with 10 Corps, 2 Armies, and 1 AA unit, not to mention 2 Paratroop units which is realistic, just seems way too unrealistic!!!.

I know now that I should have been better prepared with fortifications and I like your idea of actively seeking out the transports before they arrive in England, but because of the difficulty in taking out Mother Russia, I am now convinced that the best way to try and achieve an Axis victory, is to attempt a Sea Lion in 1940 and take out England first.

C

< Message edited by CC1 -- 1/31/2017 8:23:16 PM >

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to The Land)
Post #: 24
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 1/31/2017 8:25:59 PM   
Christolos


Posts: 953
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParadogsGamer

A Solid tactic is to take out Britain before you go deep into Russia. No allied landing.


I think I will try this next.

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to ParadogsGamer)
Post #: 25
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 2/2/2017 4:33:51 PM   
johng5155


Posts: 48
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		An invasion of Europe in Spring of 1943 was planned (Operation Sledgehammer), expected to employ 48 division supported by 5,800 aircraft. It did not move forward for a number of reasons, including the need to contain the Japanese, the small size of the initial invasion force, and the need to reinforce the British in North Africa. Check out Chapter 1 of "Cross-Channel Attack", the official US Army history. It is available for free at:

http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/007/7-4-1/CMH_Pub_7-4-1.pdf


(in reply to ParadogsGamer)
Post #: 26
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 2/4/2017 4:15:41 AM   
Christolos


Posts: 953
Joined: 4/24/2014
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks for the link johng5155.
It looks like a very interesting read.

48 division supported by 5,800 aircraft over what period of time?

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to johng5155)
Post #: 27
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 2/13/2017 5:57:26 AM   
Yogol

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline 		D-Day is in 1943 in all my games, even the ones on highest difficulty setting, where I make little progress into Russia.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale

Was it the AI that allowed the US to be massacred? That is really not very realistic!


No.
The US and UK would have been massacred in reality, if the Germans had the same intel as you and me have now.
If the Germans knew the US & UK would come there when they did, D-Day would have been a Allied disaster.

If you have problems preventing a big D-Day, you can defend France by...
- putting all the Spanish troops there: the HQ, the armies, the tank and the corpses.
- create a German group with -say- a HQ, 2 armies, 2 tanks, 2 corpses and 2 fighters.

But, ofcourse, the best way to "deal with D-Day" is to prevent it from happening, by taking out ALL the US troops and most of the UK troops on sea, before they land.



(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 28
RE: D-DAY April 1943 - 2/13/2017 2:17:22 PM   
petrosian

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		If the Axis had Russia on the ropes in 1943 the Allies would have launched D-Day then. Part of the delay was that Russia had turned the tide and Allies let Russia take the bulk of casualties. I keep a wall of garrisons and corps and coastal guns from Dunkirk to around the corner at Brest and 2 tanks behind to get airdrops. Keep all units upgraded with anti air . I have tried the sub wall, although I sink a lot of transports I eventually get done in by the endless swarming destroyers.

(in reply to Yogol)
Post #: 29
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