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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> On the Fence

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On the Fence - 1/24/2017 4:01:56 PM

David Hansen

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Joined: 6/18/2010
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I have been following this game since its release. Have checked this forum almost on a daily basis.

Looks like most find this title to be pretty good and with the patches... no major CTD's and operating issues.

Seems like most find the AI to be competent and competitive for single player gaming.

Looks to offer a combination of historical play but also a fair amount "what if" experience depending on how a game play progresses.

I've stayed away from grand strategy WW2 products after the disaster I went through with Time of Fury years ago.

The mega titles like West Front, East Front, War in the Pacific are not my cup of tea from a micro-management perspective.

I'm on the fence between this game and Decisive Campaign Barbarossa.

Looking for comments especially those who have experience with both games.

Thanks for any insights.

Post #: 1

RE: On the Fence - 1/24/2017 4:20:44 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
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They are both excellent games and have about as much to do with each other as the price of fish in Helsinki. They scratch very different itches.

I'd have to say this is probably the best ETO grand strategy game I've played, period. And I've played lots, including Time of Fury (which could have been a great game if the developers had supported it, which they did not. Instead, it was a half baked fiasco. Those same developers have done the same exact thing with every game they've made since then. No follow through. Good ideas, piss poor execution. Don't buy anything from these dudes, ever. They have no QC whatever.)

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Post #: 2

RE: On the Fence - 1/24/2017 5:02:51 PM

Ironclad

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Watching the excellent You Tube beta SC series by Paradogs Gamer and Night Phoenix was really helpful for me to gain a good understanding of the game and gameplay and had convinced me to get it sometime before its release. Like you I had avoided mega games and for many years played the impressive Commander Europe At War Grand Strategy - very simiilar to SC but its fixed screen resolution became more outdated as time passed.

I know Decisive Battles Barbarossa has proved very popular and playing it I could see why. What turned me off it was the element of role playing - very cleverly integrated but just not for me. Others with more experience of it will be able to give you a better view.

SC is highly playable, with a very large map covering land and sea and has plenty of various units as the war expands. There is a well marked frontline so visually pockets containing surrounded enemy units are clearly presented. Its 'what ifs' include a series of neat decisions for player consideration, many of them involving the commitment of future MPP's (income production points) to gain additional units or strategic opportunities. It has dynamic movement which allows a unit to conduct its attack(s) at any point during its movement allotment, and a unit can be ordered several times during a turn in any order provided it hasn't exhausted its movement. This allows for exploitation, repeated attacks on an enemy unit (single stacking applies) and fighting retreats on both land and sea.

It has a fine AI that can really handle amphibious assaults as well as continental wide efforts. A clever feature is that the AI can be used to play one or more major powers in your side (Axis or Allied) if you wish to limit your command commitments. It also has production, diplomacy, technology research and reports to cover the full aspects of grand strategy. Highly recommended

< Message edited by Ironclad -- 1/24/2017 6:59:04 PM >

(in reply to David Hansen)

Post #: 3

RE: On the Fence - 1/24/2017 7:52:49 PM

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Joined: 5/1/2009
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Hi David, appreciate your concern especially at the possible cost of the game which you did not mention, I think it is $55.95 plus $20 shipping cost, pretty dear IMO, I was fortunate enough to buy the game at Amazon.com for $5.95, there are posts that cover this, but after playing the game night and day, I am retired and able to do that, I would pay that amount $55.95 and feel it is worth every penny.

The AI is very efficient in all aspects, The options are multitude and well laid out, the map IMO is decent, the UI is well laid out. I agree with some posters that another level of zoom would help out players who say they can't make out some of the railines and other things.

As for playing the game if you just move units around like in many games without good thought you are going to get your rear end handed to you as I have many times.

I have the Pacific Strategic Command, nice game but IMO ruined by a poor AI, but that was then and I would love to see a new Pacific game with this new AI. Hubert said he would look into it, so hopefully he will do that.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 1/24/2017 7:54:20 PM >

(in reply to David Hansen)

Post #: 4

RE: On the Fence - 1/24/2017 8:42:37 PM

nickaepi

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Joined: 1/17/2017
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I just tried to type a big, detailed post and it said I'm not allowed to post links and it erased all my hard work. Get DC:B for 30 bucks at Humble Bundle right now.

Get SCWWII for 6 bucks on Amazon. Then you get two fantastic games for 36 bucks. That's what I am going to do. I already got DC:B and I love it.

I want Strategic Command to scratch my "bigger maps, entire war" itch. DC:B scratches my "awesome WWII TBS with a unique RPG-layer" itch.

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 5

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 12:58:42 AM

AstroCat

Posts: 440
Joined: 7/31/2003
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They are both great games and the RP aspect of DC:B is really great, I hope they add that to more "wargames" it just adds so much more to the immersion. :) I've played a lot of the SC games since the first one and they have always been good times when in the mood for the genre.

< Message edited by AstroCat -- 1/25/2017 1:03:06 AM >

(in reply to nickaepi)

Post #: 6

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 2:18:06 AM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

well, I have well over 100 games and this ai is by far the best I have used.. but the game itself lend to multiplayer so we wait for the next step... fantastic playable game

(in reply to AstroCat)

Post #: 7

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 2:33:41 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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I have played both games.

Bugs and stuff.
There have been one or two issues noted � but nothing that has really spoiled the enjoyment (certainly not while playing the AI) and nothing I would imagine that can�t get fixed pretty quickly. The game appears to be stable. This was the case with DC:B. It was clear from the outset that the game makers had brought to the market a stable, relatively bug free game - which sadly cannot be said for all games.....

AI
It�s always difficult to comment on as there is always a large variation in wargaming ability amongst the community. However for my part I would say that both games have provided me with a reasonable AI from which to learn the game mechanics, explore strategies and have fun. That said, I am a bit of a plank when it comes to wargaming prowess.

Playability
I did early AAR for both games. I did not want to have to sit and read a ton of instructions or sit through hours of tutorial � but wanted to get playing asap. Both games allowed this as both are pretty intuitive. (although there was a greater need for instruction from DC:B). The great thing about DC:B was the way the tutorials were presented; a few bite size tutorials that were to the point in delivering what was needed to actually get started. With SC this wasn�t really required. The game is pretty much playable straight out of the box and so learning as you go along is quite easy.

Value for money.
I bought both at full price (I don�t know if DC:B has been on sale yet) and I would have to say that in terms of � per hours played, they have both been worth the money.

Summary
As mentioned previously, the games scratch different itches. It�s difficult to recommend one over the other for that reason and the fact that it ultimately depends on where a gamer�s interest lies.

But both are fun games and I would unhesitatingly recommend both at full price.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/25/2017 2:37:02 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 2:33:44 AM

dox44

Posts: 668
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From: the woodlands, texas
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first time SC player. SC3 is very good. smooth play. looks easy but a lot going on. replayable.

didn't care at all for DC:B. haven't played it in a year.

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Post #: 9

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 5:58:11 AM

freeboy

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I have experienced the Ai over running Egypt, spain going axis and losing Gibralter an early. too early, US attack north of Rome being repulse by the Italians? WAT? all in all a great game with each time being a new and different experience..

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Post #: 10

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 2:41:57 PM

gwgardner

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Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa is immersive, with the role-playing aspect of relationships with higher-ups, battle-field commanders, supply and infrastructure command, and a really good OOB. It can be played straight-up counter-pushing, without that command overlay, however, so it offers a wide range of gaming experiences and replayability.

SC3 is the second-best operational level game of the war in Europe, behind Time of Fury (even with its flaws it is THE best in my opinion). SC3 is definitely going to get continued support and probably endless mods.

I believe you'd be happy with either game. Better, both.

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 11

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 2:47:51 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa is immersive, with the role-playing aspect of relationships with higher-ups, battle-field commanders, supply and infrastructure command, and a really good OOB. It can be played straight-up counter-pushing, without that command overlay, however, so it offers a wide range of gaming experiences and replayability.

SC3 is the second-best operational level game of the war in Europe, behind Time of Fury (even with its flaws it is THE best in my opinion). SC3 is definitely going to get continued support and probably endless mods.

I believe you'd be happy with either game. Better, both.

Seriously?

Time of Fury was half baked, imbalanced, full of bugs, weak AI, etc. etc.

So many unresolved problems.

It could've been polished into something great, with time. It never got the love it deserved or needed because the company making it has a bad habit of rushing from one release to another without giving any of their releases the TLC they need. This habit has continued since.

Do Not Buy anything from them.

This game is light years better and works right out of the box. The AI actually can give you a competitive game, even. I haven't run into a single game breaking bug. Balance seems much better to me than Time of Fury, which had a pronounced Axis bias. This product plainly benefited from its prior iterations in a way that was never true for Time of Fury.

SO far as I am concerned, SC3 is THE gold standard for ETO grand strategy and Time of Fury is a cautionary tale in How Not To Do It. These two games shouldn't be remotely compared.

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Post #: 12

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 7:15:00 PM

nickaepi

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Joined: 1/17/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I have played both games.

Bugs and stuff.
There have been one or two issues noted � but nothing that has really spoiled the enjoyment (certainly not while playing the AI) and nothing I would imagine that can�t get fixed pretty quickly. The game appears to be stable. This was the case with DC:B. It was clear from the outset that the game makers had brought to the market a stable, relatively bug free game - which sadly cannot be said for all games.....

AI
It�s always difficult to comment on as there is always a large variation in wargaming ability amongst the community. However for my part I would say that both games have provided me with a reasonable AI from which to learn the game mechanics, explore strategies and have fun. That said, I am a bit of a plank when it comes to wargaming prowess.

Playability
I did early AAR for both games. I did not want to have to sit and read a ton of instructions or sit through hours of tutorial � but wanted to get playing asap. Both games allowed this as both are pretty intuitive. (although there was a greater need for instruction from DC:B). The great thing about DC:B was the way the tutorials were presented; a few bite size tutorials that were to the point in delivering what was needed to actually get started. With SC this wasn�t really required. The game is pretty much playable straight out of the box and so learning as you go along is quite easy.

Value for money.
I bought both at full price (I don�t know if DC:B has been on sale yet) and I would have to say that in terms of � per hours played, they have both been worth the money.

Summary
As mentioned previously, the games scratch different itches. It�s difficult to recommend one over the other for that reason and the fact that it ultimately depends on where a gamer�s interest lies.

But both are fun games and I would unhesitatingly recommend both at full price.

DCB is on sale right now. Last day, I believe, on Humble Bundle. Will give you a steam key for 30 bucks. I'm loving it so far! SCIII is next. Hopefully they don't have any truck guys to piss off in that game. Truck guy hates me in DC:B! ;)

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 13

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 7:27:24 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nickaepi

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I have played both games.

Bugs and stuff.
There have been one or two issues noted � but nothing that has really spoiled the enjoyment (certainly not while playing the AI) and nothing I would imagine that can�t get fixed pretty quickly. The game appears to be stable. This was the case with DC:B. It was clear from the outset that the game makers had brought to the market a stable, relatively bug free game - which sadly cannot be said for all games.....

AI
It�s always difficult to comment on as there is always a large variation in wargaming ability amongst the community. However for my part I would say that both games have provided me with a reasonable AI from which to learn the game mechanics, explore strategies and have fun. That said, I am a bit of a plank when it comes to wargaming prowess.

Playability
I did early AAR for both games. I did not want to have to sit and read a ton of instructions or sit through hours of tutorial � but wanted to get playing asap. Both games allowed this as both are pretty intuitive. (although there was a greater need for instruction from DC:B). The great thing about DC:B was the way the tutorials were presented; a few bite size tutorials that were to the point in delivering what was needed to actually get started. With SC this wasn�t really required. The game is pretty much playable straight out of the box and so learning as you go along is quite easy.

Value for money.
I bought both at full price (I don�t know if DC:B has been on sale yet) and I would have to say that in terms of � per hours played, they have both been worth the money.

Summary
As mentioned previously, the games scratch different itches. It�s difficult to recommend one over the other for that reason and the fact that it ultimately depends on where a gamer�s interest lies.

But both are fun games and I would unhesitatingly recommend both at full price.

DCB is on sale right now. Last day, I believe, on Humble Bundle. Will give you a steam key for 30 bucks. I'm loving it so far! SCIII is next. Hopefully they don't have any truck guys to piss off in that game. Truck guy hates me in DC:B! ;)

warspite1

Everyone hates me in DC:B - especially that miserable ***** von Leeb

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RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 8:18:40 PM

Rosseau

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Unless I am misunderstanding, how can you buy the newly released SC3 WW2 for $6 - and how could Matrix allow that on a brand-new release? Of course, I wouldn't be complaining if I got it for $6

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Post #: 15

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 8:26:39 PM

Toby42

Posts: 1626
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From: Central Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Unless I am misunderstanding, how can you buy the newly released SC3 WW2 for $6 - and how could Matrix allow that on a brand-new release? Of course, I wouldn't be complaining if I got it for $6

I think that he had an Amazon coupon?

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Post #: 16

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 8:32:33 PM

Lecivius

Posts: 4845
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From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Unless I am misunderstanding, how can you buy the newly released SC3 WW2 for $6 - and how could Matrix allow that on a brand-new release? Of course, I wouldn't be complaining if I got it for $6

They use an Amazon coupon for $50, for Prime I believe.

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Post #: 17

RE: On the Fence - 1/25/2017 9:37:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Unless I am misunderstanding, how can you buy the newly released SC3 WW2 for $6 - and how could Matrix allow that on a brand-new release? Of course, I wouldn't be complaining if I got it for $6

Hi rosseau, did a post on this but to help posters I will redo it.

Amazon.com Strategic Campaign cost $55.95. Accept their credit card you get a $50 gift card that can be used on the game, plus no shipping charges.

Final cost $5.95 and you can put that on your new credit card

It may be out of stock and it is up to Matrix if they wan't to relace that stock.

Just checked Amazon.com and they say it is currently out of stock.

Do not have prime and I still received the $50 gift certificate.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 1/25/2017 9:40:00 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: On the Fence - 1/26/2017 2:23:00 PM

nickaepi

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Joined: 1/17/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Unless I am misunderstanding, how can you buy the newly released SC3 WW2 for $6 - and how could Matrix allow that on a brand-new release? Of course, I wouldn't be complaining if I got it for $6

Exactly what Bo said, down below. When you go to purchase (you do not need Prime), it will prompt you to apply for a credit card, that gives you an instant 50 dollar Amazon gift card toward purchase.

I've been trying to accomplish this but Amazon still doesn't have SC3 in stock.

Daniele, from Matrix, said they put a fulfillment order in about a week ago, with Amazon but still not showing available yet on the site.

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 19

RE: On the Fence - 1/26/2017 2:33:56 PM

nickaepi

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Joined: 1/17/2017
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[/quote]

[image][/image]

" "Do we have any AP left?" "Nope...Wasted all of that a few turns ago."

< Message edited by nickaepi -- 1/26/2017 5:55:12 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 20

RE: On the Fence - 1/26/2017 2:46:11 PM

BillRunacre

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Amazon USA don't have it at the moment as they sold out of the first delivery, but if you are in the UK, Amazon UK have it in stock:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Strategic-Command-WWII-War-Europe/dp/B01N74LW02/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479963250&sr=8-1&keywords=strategic+command+wwii+war+in+europe

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Post #: 21

RE: On the Fence - 1/26/2017 5:52:56 PM

nickaepi

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I will try and be patient but I'll probably just end up downloading it. Maybe you have an inside scoop of any digital sales coming up for this title..Mr. Bill Runacre, game designer guy? *Hint* Hint*

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Post #: 22

RE: On the Fence - 1/26/2017 6:10:57 PM

Dmondragon75

Posts: 129
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I assume my post will be misunderstood, but...
In order to have quality games as SC3, why are ppl so worried if game costs 10/20 dollars more or less. FFS You will pay 20 mins with the hooker in red Amst Red District 70 USD. Gamers are buying a product they ll probably enjoy for years and also helping programmers and developers to put even better games in the future. Gaming community is 90% like this, always moaning about price of the game. For example, lots of strategy lovers are moaning about costs of Grigsby War in the east/west price. I m just wondering do ppl think about time and work invested in this game by Mr. Gary and the fact they have very accurate strategic simulation? I m buying lots of games on Steam which I don't play, just to show appreciation for the ppl with good ideas and give them opportunity to put even better games on the market, fact that they live from the money they make from gaming shouldn't be irrelevant

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Post #: 23

RE: On the Fence - 1/26/2017 7:04:22 PM

Kursk1943

Posts: 445
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Thumbs up for Dmondragon75!

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Post #: 24

RE: On the Fence - 1/26/2017 8:32:13 PM

Dmondragon75

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Deus vult mate

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Post #: 25

RE: On the Fence - 1/27/2017 8:33:06 PM

nickaepi

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/17/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dmondragon75

I assume my post will be misunderstood, but...
In order to have quality games as SC3, why are ppl so worried if game costs 10/20 dollars more or less. FFS You will pay 20 mins with the hooker in red Amst Red District 70 USD. Gamers are buying a product they ll probably enjoy for years and also helping programmers and developers to put even better games in the future. Gaming community is 90% like this, always moaning about price of the game. For example, lots of strategy lovers are moaning about costs of Grigsby War in the east/west price. I m just wondering do ppl think about time and work invested in this game by Mr. Gary and the fact they have very accurate strategic simulation? I m buying lots of games on Steam which I don't play, just to show appreciation for the ppl with good ideas and give them opportunity to put even better games on the market, fact that they live from the money they make from gaming shouldn't be irrelevant

I did not misunderstand your post and I assume you weren't directing this necessarily towards me. If you were, that's fine. I have absolutely NO problem paying full price for a game. I was just joking around in my previous post. I don't get to be on a lot of forums when a game Designer replies directly to your posts. I just thought it was cool that he is actively replying in a forum.

I don't think there is an issue letting other forum members know, specifically on this thread, that they can save some money, while FULLY supporting a developer. If Matrix has SC3 available on Amazon, for full-price and the consumer can get a 50 dollar credit towards their purchase, I think that actually promotes sales of the product and therefore promotes more awareness of these great games.

SC3 has 1, single review on Amazon and you can't even buy it right now because it's not in stock (and hasn't been for a while). What if a bunch of people on here are "on the fence" about a game (which is what this Thread is titled by the OP, "On the Fence"), I think a consumer will feel less "risk" when the price is lower, especially for someone that may not already be familiar with the Dev's other projects.

The thread isn't titled "why so expensive?" or "is it worth it?". It's titled "on the fence".

A consumer can potentially buy this game, spending less money up front, maybe use that for another one of the same Dev's products (or a Russian hooker ;) and they're still getting the same "profit" they would have anyway if I didn't use my Amazon credit. I typically buy my games in bunches, even if I am not able to play them all right away so good chance I buy another SC title at checkout.

Again, the more positive reviews on a site like Amazon, the more exposure the game can get.

Why do you think these games get put on Steam and other digital platforms? More exposure, visibility & additional platforms to sell their titles.

Why are people so picky about pricing you ask? Because we have soooo many options on how to buy a game these days. I'm 40 and I grew up with having to wait for my mom to drive me to the nearest mall and hope the game I wanted was in stock and I couldn't wait to get home and start reading the manual.

Now I can just google search and most games are listed on 50 different download websites. It's human nature we are going to pick the one that is the lowest price. We have been spoiled by Steam sales, Flash sales, etc.

TL;DR. I am confident SCIII is well worth 40 bucks, especially after seeing the feedback on multiple forums and reviews. Probably worth way more than 40 to people that have extensive game play time. Again, I just think the general gaming population has been spoiled in the digital age. I am guilty of that.

(in reply to Dmondragon75)

Post #: 26

RE: On the Fence - 1/27/2017 8:44:15 PM

OxfordGuy3

Posts: 1041
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I'd happily pay double for a game like this if it was as finely-tuned as CEAW-GS and had non-cheat-able MP...

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Post #: 27

RE: On the Fence - 1/27/2017 11:14:15 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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I would have gladly payed more than double for this game, and consider my purchase of CEaW to have been a waste of money. To each his own, lol.

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Post #: 28

RE: On the Fence - 1/27/2017 11:40:30 PM

OxfordGuy3

Posts: 1041
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From: Oxford, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

I'd happily pay double for a game like this if it was as finely-tuned as CEAW-GS and had non-cheat-able MP...

BTW This wasn't meant as a dig, more just wishful thinking - I think the 1.0 release of SC3 shows great promise, but the game needs some finessing. Should be really great after a few patches, if the devs (and community) continue to support the game.

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Post #: 29

RE: On the Fence - 1/28/2017 1:19:06 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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I didn't think it was a dig, I just thought that describing CEaW as 'finely-tuned' was a bit off. CEaW has some features I would have liked to see in SC3 [Oil, Manpower, Convoy System], but SC3 has more features that are not in CEaW [more than two attacks on a unit, movement and combat, EDITOR!!]. Add in that CEaW is multi-player only, and support is nil, and I give it a big fat zero on the personal expense scale. [To be slightly fair, CEaW was still being developed as of my last contact in May 2016, but they are pretty close minded and stubborn, and are only interested in multi-player].

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)

Post #: 30