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RE: Allied conversions - 2/3/2017 7:47:59 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		In terms of 4-pipe conversions, I prefer all to become APDs
my simple rational is that the important year is 1942, and what I lack in that year is amphibious invasion capabilities. Almost anything can be used against submarines (minesweepers, minelayers, chasers, gunboats) including APDs which are quite capable ASW platforms on their own, but very few Allied ships can be used for fast invasions (in direct contrast to Japan, where any cruiser or DD is a capable auxiliar troop carrying ship)

Having a big fleet of APDs means that I can do credible small invasions and accept heavy APD losses in 1942 which is the year that matters the most. Once 1943 arrives it is all abundance for the Allies.

A 27knot APD/ AVD invasion fleet is pretty much impossible to detect/ intercept until it had reached its objective

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 2/3/2017 7:56:19 PM >

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 31
RE: Allied conversions - 2/3/2017 7:52:45 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		Lokasenna,

Well, Regarding the "limiting" of my Amph Invasion TFs, I guess I believe that some passenger liner is not really intended to be used as a run up on the beach and dispatch type of ship. However, I am strictly a vs. the AI player, so I can be stricter with what I allow myself.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 32
RE: Allied conversions - 2/3/2017 8:08:03 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

In terms of 4-pipe conversions, I prefer all to become APDs
my simple rational is that the important year is 1942, and what I lack in that year is amphibious invasion capabilities. Almost anything can be used against submarines (minesweepers, minelayers, chasers, gunboats) including APDs which are quite capable ASW platforms on their own, but very few Allied ships can be used for fast invasions (in direct contrast to Japan, where any cruiser or DD is a capable auxiliar troop carrying ship)

Having a big fleet of APDs means that I can do credible small invasions and accept heavy APD losses in 1942 which is the year that matters the most. Once 1943 arrives it is all abundance for the Allies.

A 27knot APD/ AVD invasion fleet is pretty much impossible to detect/ intercept until it had reached its objective


I concur. Very useful for countering token IJ invasions of various islands that are out of air cover for both sides. The only ways for Japan to stop them are costly in terms of early war fuel stocks at the front/opportunity costs.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Lokasenna,

Well, Regarding the "limiting" of my Amph Invasion TFs, I guess I believe that some passenger liner is not really intended to be used as a run up on the beach and dispatch type of ship. However, I am strictly a vs. the AI player, so I can be stricter with what I allow myself.


Sure, maybe not the big liners, but the more compelling reason not to use those is because they will take a very, very long time to fully unload. They are better used for shuttling units between bases due to their size and speed.

The early "Liberty" ships that you can convert, however (most arrive at Alameda)... I don't see why not. 19000 Endurance, 2000 Troop, 2250 Cargo (IIRC). Plus the others that start on map. Specifically, the Pacific(L) xAKs that convert to xAPs with 1000 Troop/1300 Cargo. Fun fact: if you have an amphibious command ship with amphibious force HQ (AGC/HQm combo), most of these xAPs will basically fully unload in a single day. The AGC+HQm more or less turn them into full blown APAs. Use them!

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 33
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 12:24:12 AM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		I believe the presence of the AGC is all that is necessary for the increase in unloading tempo. The Amph Force HQ helps limit the disruption of the troops themselves.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 34
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 3:35:31 AM   
Dirtnap86


Posts: 95
Joined: 10/3/2016
Status: offline 		With regards to the four-stackers, I convert the Wickes class to DEs (shorter legs) while keeping the Clemsons as APDs because of their longer legs. Haven't really fooled around with AKE/AG conversions because I didn't really know what the AGs did.

(in reply to bush)
Post #: 35
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 6:39:33 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirtnap86

With regards to the four-stackers, I convert the Wickes class to DEs (shorter legs) while keeping the Clemsons as APDs because of their longer legs. Haven't really fooled around with AKE/AG conversions because I didn't really know what the AGs did.

I learned that hard way that an AM or KV in need of depth charges needs to find a tender or a size seven port to get them. AKEs can provide, but AGs are the intended vessel to support smaller ships, and they also help with repairs of small vessels.

You don't need a lot of them, but as others have mentioned you can convert for the better AA and have them hauling freight. My issue with this is that AGs are worth a lot more VPs to the IJN sub that picks them off than the original xAK was worth. The additional AA devices are what boosts the ship value.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Dirtnap86)
Post #: 36
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 1:13:10 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Allied Fast Transport TFs - I gather up the AMCs and the old four stackers converted to APDs to form 1 or 2 of these TFs. You have to be careful in their use, but they are valuable to you in 42 and early 43.

APs to APAs - I get those that can do this to Mare Island and they sit there until early 43 when I can convert. The Allies need every APA they can get their hands on.

xAK Pacific C Class & Dominion M Class to xAPs- I move all those in Burma/India to Cape Town for conversion. Then, most go to USA for use in Pacific while some stay here or at Aden to move troops into India. They are small enough to be able to dock at size 1 or 2 ports when you need to unload Motorized Support and radar.

xAK C1-A Cargo & C2 Cargo Class to xAPs - Yes, in 2/42

_____________________________


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Post #: 37
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 1:44:52 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		xAK to AG - this is a great conversion early war. Basically, you get lots of AA weapons pretty fast (xAK AA upgrades kick off in June 1942), you also get more endurance and the option to rearm depth charges. The reduced cargo capacity is actually a blessing for me, because I mostly move cargo in amphibious TFs. Thus I can have i.e ten AGs unloading 250 supply point per day in level 1 (2500 daily cargo limit) port without clogging the tiny docking space which is reserved for any troop transports or tankers/oilers.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 38
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 4:24:24 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I believe the presence of the AGC is all that is necessary for the increase in unloading tempo. The Amph Force HQ helps limit the disruption of the troops themselves.


An empty AGC by itself helps just the TF that it is in.

An AGC with an HQm helps the entire hex.

(in reply to bush)
Post #: 39
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 7:27:54 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I believe the presence of the AGC is all that is necessary for the increase in unloading tempo. The Amph Force HQ helps limit the disruption of the troops themselves.


An empty AGC by itself helps just the TF that it is in.

An AGC with an HQm helps the entire hex.

I don't have AGCs yet but I want to use the V Amphib Force HQ for support of an invasion. I have an xAP available to load the HQ. What loss of benefit is there in using an xAP vs an AGC?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 40
RE: Allied conversions - 2/4/2017 9:30:25 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I believe the presence of the AGC is all that is necessary for the increase in unloading tempo. The Amph Force HQ helps limit the disruption of the troops themselves.


An empty AGC by itself helps just the TF that it is in.

An AGC with an HQm helps the entire hex.

I don't have AGCs yet but I want to use the V Amphib Force HQ for support of an invasion. I have an xAP available to load the HQ. What loss of benefit is there in using an xAP vs an AGC?


My understanding is all of it. You must be in an AGC.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 41
RE: Allied conversions - 2/5/2017 1:23:19 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I believe the presence of the AGC is all that is necessary for the increase in unloading tempo. The Amph Force HQ helps limit the disruption of the troops themselves.


An empty AGC by itself helps just the TF that it is in.

An AGC with an HQm helps the entire hex.

I don't have AGCs yet but I want to use the V Amphib Force HQ for support of an invasion. I have an xAP available to load the HQ. What loss of benefit is there in using an xAP vs an AGC?


My understanding is all of it. You must be in an AGC.

OK - I'll try it anyway - nothing to lose by doing so. Will let you know if the results are discernible.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 42
RE: Allied conversions - 2/6/2017 8:45:39 PM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Finally a thread that this NOB can respond to.

Many ships can be converted in DaBabe Lite A in Dec 41 to ships with greater AA/ASW assets,
the trick is to find an locate them. As was historical the vast Allied fleet is scatter
throughout the various areas of operations.

Each scenario has its own set of ships that can be converted, below are the ship classes
that can be converted in December 1941(with locations) in the Scn#26 BabesLite A, stock map,
Dec 7th start. Me against AI.

Clemson Class DD to DE, APD, AVD, DM, DMS -- I convert all to APD for the increase, AA/ASW
Clemson Class are found in PH. Manila, HK and WC USA

Wicks Class DD to DE, APD, My thoughts on the Wicks class is to covert some to APD but leave
most for the April update for the long range DE. Wick Class at PH and WC USA

Schley
Chew
Kilty
Crosby
Dent
Talbot
Ward
Allen
Crane
Kennison
Peary
John D. Ford

AP to APA (need to protect) I put these at EC and transport supplies to CT until they can be converted.
Will use to transport initial LCU to SOPAC before all the IJN subs get parked off the WC.

Wharton -- Mare Island
U.S. Grant -- Seattle
President Polk -- SF
President Monroe -- SF
President Jackson -- SF
Henderson -- SF
Barnett -- LA
Harris -- SD
Joseph T. Dickman -- CT
Leonard Wood -- CT

AMC to LS(M) need to protect
Prince Henry -- Vancouver
Australia Star --
Westralia -- Sydney
One AMC in Singapore
CL to CLA
Colombo -- Aden

Admiralty S Class - DD, DM

Wilcannia xAKL to PC, AG, AMc -- I convert some to PC for ASW/AA

Dominon M Cargo Class to xAP

Hog Island Tender Class and Harriman Class xAK to AKE

Hourace Luckenbach -- Seattle
Chattanooga -- Seattle
Will A. Point -- Seattle
William R. Gibson -- Seattle
America Star -- Tacoma
Ruth Alexander -- SF
Sataria (sp) -- Anchorage
Barbara Olson -- Anchorage
Katrina Luckenbach -- Anchorage
Dorothy Luckenbach -- LA
Jacob Luckenbach -- SD
Exmoore -- SD
Governor Wright -- Naga
Elhal Edwards -- Manila
Lillian Luckenbach -- Sydney

AG Conversions Trasmarine Class xAK to AG and Isthmian Tenders

Virginian -- Seattle
Utahan -- Seattle
Eldorado -- Seattle
Cleredon -- Seattle
Crown City -- Seattle
Admiral Cole -- SF
William Luckenbach -- SF
Steel Voyager -- SF
Steel Tractor -- SF
Steel Seafarer -- SF
Steel Exporter -- SF
Dorothy Philips -- Anchorage
Cold Brode -- Anchorage
Knoxville City -- Anchorage
Trenton -- Anchorage
Hawaiian -- Anchorage
Panamina -- Seattle
Susan Luckenbach -- -- Seattle
Steel Navigator -- SF
Tuscaloosa City -- LA
Enslay City -- LA
Ohioan -- LA
Arkansan -- LA
Liberty -- LA
Diamond Head -- LA
Steel Ranger -- SD
Chickasaw City -- SD
Santa Teresa -- SD
Charles H. Cramp -- SD
Minnesotan -- SD
Admiral Y. Williams -- SD
Capillo -- Manila
American -- Brisbane
Steel Age -- Brisbane
Missourian -- Melbourne
Carolinian -- Melbourne
Challenger -- Melbourne
Mathern Luckenbach -- Sydney
Lena LUckenbach -- Syndey
Steel Worker -- Sydney
Steel Scientist -- Sydney
Steel Mariner -- Sydney
Lancaster -- Sydney

Cargo Class to xAP

Shooting Star -- SF
Alcoa Pathfinder -- SF
Alcoa Prospect -- Alameda
Agwimonte --LA
Michael Embiricos -- Aden
Filleigh --CT
Clan Alpino -- CT
Arkaba -- Perth
Charon -- Carnanon (sp)
Ming Sang -- HK
Hai Lee -- HK
Yu Sang --HK
Johane Justeen -- Townsville
Centaur -- Townsville
Dardanus -- Brisbane
Silkworth -- Brisbane
Allara -- Adelaide
Iran Knob -- Adelaide
Dundula -- Adelaide
Illisos -- Melbourne
Iron Master -- Melbourne
Aole -- Melbourne
Corolo -- Melbourne
Adelong -- Melbourne
Colac -- Melbourne
Oaktank -- Melbourne
Iron Warrior -- Melbourne
Eahunga -- Melbourne
Marpressa -- Melbourne
Zvir -- Melbourne
Wanaka -- Sydney
Anhui -- Sydney
Aeon -- Sydney

C2 Cargo Class to AE

Mount Mckinley -- Anchorage
Henry S. Grove

Bird Class AM to AVP -- Suggestion on how many if any to convert in early 42?


(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 43
RE: Allied conversions - 2/6/2017 8:47:05 PM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Forgot to say just trying to give back for the wonderful support that this community shares

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 44
RE: Allied conversions - 2/6/2017 9:46:12 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		Lawless1, just want to point out that Wickes DDs do not upgrade to DE until May 1942.

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 45
RE: Allied conversions - 2/7/2017 12:02:01 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Bill, thanks for catching my error. Need to be able to read my notes better, Some of the spelling on the ships are questionable

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 46
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 2:01:58 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		bump

_____________________________

Two types of ships, targets and submarines
Death from below

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Post #: 47
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 2:54:34 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		There are some good ideas here. The minor problem with the AG is that it will not load resources unless it is in a TF with an AK type of vessel, the same thing with AP type transports. I like to haul the resources with ships that have unloaded while others are unloading and/or waiting for escorts. I do not like to send unescorted vessels since the computer cheats and will find them. Hawaii does not provide enough resources to keep Oahu supplied this helps with that supply production. The same for Manila if you can keep it. Against the computer I usually wipe out the Luzon invasion.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 48
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 3:28:09 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are some good ideas here. The minor problem with the AG is that it will not load resources unless it is in a TF with an AK type of vessel, the same thing with AP type transports. I like to haul the resources with ships that have unloaded while others are unloading and/or waiting for escorts. I do not like to send unescorted vessels since the computer cheats and will find them. Hawaii does not provide enough resources to keep Oahu supplied this helps with that supply production. The same for Manila if you can keep it. Against the computer I usually wipe out the Luzon invasion.



There is a very simple solution to the lack of resources at Pearl for its industry. The resources needed are at Hilo. Even a single ship, small, short legged xAKL set up as a Continuous Supply TF running between the ports with a coastal setting to keep it out of the waters heavily populated with Japanese subs will have Pearl set for the duration of the game.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 49
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 7:01:27 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are some good ideas here. The minor problem with the AG is that it will not load resources unless it is in a TF with an AK type of vessel, the same thing with AP type transports. I like to haul the resources with ships that have unloaded while others are unloading and/or waiting for escorts. I do not like to send unescorted vessels since the computer cheats and will find them. Hawaii does not provide enough resources to keep Oahu supplied this helps with that supply production. The same for Manila if you can keep it. Against the computer I usually wipe out the Luzon invasion.



There is a very simple solution to the lack of resources at Pearl for its industry. The resources needed are at Hilo. Even a single ship, small, short legged xAKL set up as a Continuous Supply TF running between the ports with a coastal setting to keep it out of the waters heavily populated with Japanese subs will have Pearl set for the duration of the game.

I'll have to open the game and double-check, but I think I looked at that and the resource production from the big island was not enough to feed all of the industry at PH. I supplement with resources from Nauru or Ocean Island once I have them. There are a lot of empty ships returning from that area after dropping supply or troops, so it costs little in terms of fuel or time to make a stop at Nauru or Ocean Is.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 50
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 7:11:51 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are some good ideas here. The minor problem with the AG is that it will not load resources unless it is in a TF with an AK type of vessel, the same thing with AP type transports. I like to haul the resources with ships that have unloaded while others are unloading and/or waiting for escorts. I do not like to send unescorted vessels since the computer cheats and will find them. Hawaii does not provide enough resources to keep Oahu supplied this helps with that supply production. The same for Manila if you can keep it. Against the computer I usually wipe out the Luzon invasion.


The only place the Allies have a net resources surplus in Dec, 194 is Tacoma, CONUSA. Each day there is a about 12k o18k resources ( I dnot remember exactly) that are left free, so load them up on a convoy and dump them in Pearl.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 51
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 8:18:53 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are some good ideas here. The minor problem with the AG is that it will not load resources unless it is in a TF with an AK type of vessel, the same thing with AP type transports. I like to haul the resources with ships that have unloaded while others are unloading and/or waiting for escorts. I do not like to send unescorted vessels since the computer cheats and will find them. Hawaii does not provide enough resources to keep Oahu supplied this helps with that supply production. The same for Manila if you can keep it. Against the computer I usually wipe out the Luzon invasion.


The only place the Allies have a net resources surplus in Dec, 194 is Tacoma, CONUSA. Each day there is a about 12k o18k resources ( I dnot remember exactly) that are left free, so load them up on a convoy and dump them in Pearl.



Don't you mean the only place where resources are both being produced and consumed?

There is a net resource surplus at every location that produces resources, but has no factories, or overland links to factories, that can consume them.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 52
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 8:27:52 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I was thinking in terms of national economies. The Tacoma surplus outflows on next turn and is replaced by another daily surplus in Tacoma. The code will let you load four 4165 xAK ships daily without fuss.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 53
RE: Allied conversions - 7/10/2019 9:43:24 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There are some good ideas here. The minor problem with the AG is that it will not load resources unless it is in a TF with an AK type of vessel, the same thing with AP type transports. I like to haul the resources with ships that have unloaded while others are unloading and/or waiting for escorts. I do not like to send unescorted vessels since the computer cheats and will find them. Hawaii does not provide enough resources to keep Oahu supplied this helps with that supply production. The same for Manila if you can keep it. Against the computer I usually wipe out the Luzon invasion.


The only place the Allies have a net resources surplus in Dec, 194 is Tacoma, CONUSA. Each day there is a about 12k o18k resources ( I dnot remember exactly) that are left free, so load them up on a convoy and dump them in Pearl.

This does not make sense when starting from the supply capital of the game (WC USA). You can haul 15 X the amount of supply to PH in those ships as the resources would produce by LI at PH. If PH has HI, the factor is 10 X the amount of supply and a saving in fuel usage.

It only makes sense to haul resources where you have an empty ship going from an area rich in resources and poor in supply, and the ship must be able to drop the resources very close to its route back to a supply depot for the next load.

Edit: Just opened the game and confirmed my suspicions about Hilo resources and PH needs. In stock Scenario 1 Hilo has 20 Resource points that produce 20X20= 400 resources per turn.
PH has HI 20 which requires input of 20X10= 200 resources per turn (+200 fuel). That will produce only 40 supply.
PH also has 80 LI which requires input of 80X15= 1200 resources per turn to produce 80 supply.
The shortfall is 1000 resources per turn. I ship in resources when convenient but I don't worry if the industry runs out - supply from the WC more than makes up for shortfalls.

BTW, the HI points at PH might be somewhat useful as the game requires the Allies to spend HI points on pilot training (don't know about HI for aircraft production and shipbuilding). Normally the USA gets so many HI points per turn automatically that other HI points are not needed, but if significant HI were shut off or destroyed in the USA, every HI point the Allies get elsewhere would be needed in the HI pool. This is why the Japanese should always try to take USA in the first month of game time ...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 7/10/2019 11:05:49 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 54
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