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RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR

 
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RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/5/2019 11:16:54 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		A massive area has to be covered by the Soviets to prevent strat bombing of the full range of attractive targets. Possible after investment in many new fighter units, but a window of opportunity for the Axis is there. And even then, strat bomb defence draws resources from other fields, giving it indirect effect. Be it less fighter coverage for the front, APs invested in fighters instead of IL2s and and and.
Note I do not argue for strat bombing to be war winning on its own, but that it has more than the pipe dream zero effect.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 3/5/2019 11:18:09 PM >

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(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 811
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 12:04:25 AM   
ledo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/6/2017
Status: offline 		Yeah but you also said you could stop the strategic bombing/telemecus' red airforce strategy cold if they wanted to when there was recon spamming, in fact you said it would be easy. I believe you could, I figure you being a very skilled player could deal with any of these problems, knowing the intricacies of the engine and best possible method for maintaining and building up a red airforce and adapting to various strategies. My only point is, it's really moot whether or not you know you could make the strategy ineffective. The point is probably whether it would be effective against a less than optimised use of the red airforce (which 95% of players on this forum will encounter/achieve when they play a game).

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 812
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 12:20:20 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ledo

Yeah but you also said you could stop the strategic bombing/telemecus' red airforce strategy cold if they wanted to when there was recon spamming, in fact you said it would be easy. I believe you could, I figure you being a very skilled player could deal with any of these problems, knowing the intricacies of the engine and best possible method for maintaining and building up a red airforce and adapting to various strategies. My only point is, it's really moot whether or not you know you could make the strategy ineffective. The point is probably whether it would be effective against a less than optimised use of the red airforce (which 95% of players on this forum will encounter/achieve when they play a game).


Yes, I could stop it with or without the recon spam which I agree is a moot point since I know I can AND the exploit is gone for good now in the current patch. I am, and have always been thinking of the other 95% of the players that would have encountered/achieve results against such a strategy. I am 100% glad this exploit has been taken out of the game just for them.

And before anyone goes there I am all for and commend the outside thinking of coming up with this. But to me it was way over the top in my book no matter how many times you sugar coat it. I am glad it is gone for good.

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Post #: 813
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 12:30:28 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

A massive area has to be covered by the Soviets to prevent strat bombing of the full range of attractive targets. Possible after investment in many new fighter units, but a window of opportunity for the Axis is there. And even then, strat bomb defence draws resources from other fields, giving it indirect effect. Be it less fighter coverage for the front, APs invested in fighters instead of IL2s and and and.
Note I do not argue for strat bombing to be war winning on its own, but that it has more than the pipe dream zero effect.



It isn’t as big of an investment as you think. Along with Soviet factories only being in certain key locations. Also not to mention AA through the roof to boot and and and.

I never argued that strat bombing to be war winning. I am saying it is a pipe dream if you think you are going to achieve the results that was done in this AAR if you are playing someone that is competent with Soviet Air.



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Post #: 814
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 1:00:11 AM   
ledo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/6/2017
Status: offline 		You don't need to bold the exploit I get it. Not really related to my point, but yeah I get it. My point is the fact that you have no illusions you can stop it is irrelevant, since you could stop it before and so it was really a non-sequitur to point out that you can stop it now that it's easier. The question is, is it still useful and to what extent can it still have an impact? I see that you and EvK agree on that point that it will be useful to some extent but not game winning. So I guess that answers that.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 815
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 1:23:52 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ledo

You don't need to bold the exploit I get it. Not really related to my point, but yeah I get it. My point is the fact that you have no illusions you can stop it is irrelevant, since you could stop it before and so it was really a non-sequitur to point out that you can stop it now that it's easier. The question is, is it still useful and to what extent can it still have an impact? I see that you and EvK agree on that point that it will be useful to some extent but not game winning. So I guess that answers that.


Quote, “You don't need to bold the exploit I get it. Not really related to my point, but yeah I get it. My point is the fact that you have no illusions you can stop it is irrelevant, since you could stop it before and so it was really a non-sequitur to point out that you can stop it now that it's easier.”

My answer is in my last post, please read again. If you like me to bold that section I can for you ;-P

Quote, “The question is, is it still useful and to what extent can it still have an impact?

Against lethargic &/or inexperienced players in current state of game is my take on it.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 3/6/2019 1:24:52 AM >

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Post #: 816
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 1:27:47 AM   
ledo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

Quote, “You don't need to bold the exploit I get it. Not really related to my point, but yeah I get it. My point is the fact that you have no illusions you can stop it is irrelevant, since you could stop it before and so it was really a non-sequitur to point out that you can stop it now that it's easier.”

My answer is in my last post, please read again. If you like me to bold that section I can for you ;-P



Answer to what? That wasn't a question. But if you can bold the part where you make it clear why its relevant that you specifically are still able to stop a tactic you already could stop before, now that it's gotten easier to stop, go ahead.


< Message edited by ledo -- 3/6/2019 1:36:33 AM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 817
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 1:47:10 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ledo



quote:

Quote, “You don't need to bold the exploit I get it. Not really related to my point, but yeah I get it. My point is the fact that you have no illusions you can stop it is irrelevant, since you could stop it before and so it was really a non-sequitur to point out that you can stop it now that it's easier.”

My answer is in my last post, please read again. If you like me to bold that section I can for you ;-P



Answer to what? That wasn't a question.



No you didn’t but the answer is still there for the bolded quote. Ledo, or should I call you Telemecus???? Anyway this is off point and I am done. I won’t answer the updated edited version that has been posted. Thank you for the small chat Telemecus, I mean Ledo

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Post #: 818
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 1:56:01 AM   
ledo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/6/2017
Status: offline 		We are not the same person. But the wild accusations are amusing.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 819
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 2:02:23 AM   
ledo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/6/2017
Status: offline 		In case you feel unconvinced;

Telemecus was the one who invited me (briefly) to the 2by3+ game, where Neogodhobo can attest to the fact that I am not really of the same calibre player.

EvK has received spreadsheets from both Telemecus and myself. The problem for me in using Tele's spreadsheets is that he appears to use Open Office while I use excel.

I can also show you snippets of mine and Tele's discussions about tracking spreadsheets.

But hey, maybe your conspiratorial mind sees me running some grand scam, where I am for some unknown reason doubling up my identity, inviting myself to games that I could just join any time, and then playing worse than I ever have. Using two different types of spreadsheet programs to throw people off the scent while having two-way doctored conversations with myself at erratic intervals over many months.

Stay classy, HLYA.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 820
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 3:28:13 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		If you stop “Trolling” I would stop likewise with calling you Telemecus. You have been constantly doing that on my post with exception of one that I can see.

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Post #: 821
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 3:35:35 AM   
ledo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/6/2017
Status: offline 		Okey doke. Feel free to keep calling me whatever you like, I'm just saying you're demonstrably wrong.

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Post #: 822
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 3:45:51 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ledo

Okey doke. Feel free to keep calling me whatever you like, I'm just saying you're demonstrably wrong.


Wrong on what? Seems to me you want to prove everything I say is wrong. You can reply in a PM or email to get it off the forum if you have a problem with me we can chat there.

I can likewise say you are demonstrably wrong too 8|

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Post #: 823
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 3:48:48 AM   
ledo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/6/2017
Status: offline 		That i'm telemecus? Anyway cool, I'm happy to stop this disconnected back and forth.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 824
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 3:51:57 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ledo

That i'm telemecus? Anyway cool, I'm happy to stop this disconnected back and forth.


Great! My PM and email both work if you ever need to chat.

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Post #: 825
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 6:28:58 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		I can attest Ledo is not Telemecus, that is simply redicolous. Two people with different spreadsheet format with different word choice with different interests etc.

quote:

It isn’t as big of an investment as you think. Along with Soviet factories only being in certain key locations. Also not to mention AA through the roof to boot and and and.

I never argued that strat bombing to be war winning. I am saying it is a pipe dream if you think you are going to achieve the results that was done in this AAR if you are playing someone that is competent with Soviet Air.

We all agree with solid sov play We wont see the huge effect it had in this game. Yet
AA=Ap investment, manpower and arms and every fighter allocated for strat bomb defence is not somewhere else. The beauty of this is you have sort of a "strat bomb in being", drawing constantly sov resources if they want to def.

_____________________________

The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 826
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 12:35:27 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

I can attest Ledo is not Telemecus, that is simply redicolous. Two people with different spreadsheet format with different word choice with different interests etc.

quote:

It isn’t as big of an investment as you think. Along with Soviet factories only being in certain key locations. Also not to mention AA through the roof to boot and and and.

I never argued that strat bombing to be war winning. I am saying it is a pipe dream if you think you are going to achieve the results that was done in this AAR if you are playing someone that is competent with Soviet Air.

We all agree with solid sov play We wont see the huge effect it had in this game. Yet
AA=Ap investment, manpower and arms and every fighter allocated for strat bomb defence is not somewhere else. The beauty of this is you have sort of a "strat bomb in being", drawing constantly sov resources if they want to def.


I dont care if Ledo is or is not Tele, I was going to be Trolled no matter what I typed. So was better to put him on the defensive. If Ledo was interested in debating his question being answered Ledo would have stuck to that question instead of Trolling semantics. Better still he could have used the PM/email I suggested at the end to talk further. But as of yet there has not been any PMs/emails further extrapolating in my mind this to be Trolling. By the way just to be clear the question I am referencing that was answered was, Ledo Quote, “The question is, is it still useful and to what extent can it still have an impact?” HardLuckYetAgain answer, “Against lethargic &/or inexperienced players in current state of game is my take on it.”

On your last part I believe we are agreeing. IF the Germans does get ahead in strategic bombing the effects can be exponential. It comes down to the experience of the players.



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Post #: 827
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 1:31:24 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		I have to thank EvK for messaging me that I am Ledo - that is one of the more bizarre things I have ever seen. I know Ledo is a nice guy and has been very put off, like others, by this kind of hostility on the site. I hope that can be corrected for him and to not put even more others off.

For the record I put about 95% of the air dominance to Soviet air doctrine settings, 3% to Soviet airbase placement and maybe 2% to recon spam.

For many turns we found the Soviet air doctrine for percentage required to fly was 50% (as documented in the allocations files uploaded to the AAR) and almost all fighter groups had less than 50% of the complement ready. It was a simple task to identify the dozen or so aircraft in air groups still able to fly by that percentage and shoot them down with fighter sweeps or air base bombing to leave no fighter coverage of the enemy at all. There were two turns at the end of the summer 41 period when the Soviet air force was badly damaged but pulled out of range of Axis fighter sweeps and for that exceptional opportunity recon spam was used extensively. By 42 we realised how the recon spam myth had grown so I started adding on lots of extra superfluos recon to feed the misperception. For a few turns I actually forgot to do it until the end so flew all the dummy recon missions when there were no fighters to intercept them. We were sure this would be picked up - and from some posts of M60 and EvK I thought they had - but by and large it never was. It was great fun flying lots of recon missions with no fighter interception to feed the perception that somehow recon was shooting down hundreds of Soviet fighters - indeed it may have got a bit too effective.

What is true is that spam recon can be effective in one location or against one or a few fighter groups. Overwhelming them with all of your recon can be effective against small parts of the Soviet air force. That is why you will see many missions in one place. I personally think scatter gunning recon all over is just training up any decent Soviet air force and is counter productive - I certainly never did that. What is fantasy is that the Soviet air force was primarily, or even subtantially harmed by recon spam. If the game was run with the same air doctrine and the same placement of air bases in the latest version then exactly the same could be done now (with the exception of two turns).

I think strategic bombing under all previous versions was quite easy to stop - you just need to disperse the Soviet fighters to the rear to protect industry as was historical and unlike how the game is usually played. I have revealed to EvK what the new startegic bombing campaign in 42 is and that would not have relied on a lack of Soviet fighter cover in the rear and so could still be effective.

In summary recon spam had a very very minor part to play in this game. The big lesson is do not leave your percentage required to fly air doctrine close to the percentage of ready aircraft in your air groups. And use some fighters to actually provide fighter cover over your industry.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 828
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 2:22:44 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus



Telemecus quote, "I know Ledo is a nice guy and has been very put off, like others, by this kind of hostility on the site. I hope that can be corrected for him and to not put even more others off."

The hostility was breed and started by Ledo with trolling on semantics. I hope that is the hostility you are referring to but I don't think you are since you are claiming he was a victim. So yes I hope crap like that gets corrected but it never does nor will it ever because of the hatred that some harbor. So when you are pointing the finger the other fingers are pointing back at you and others when you are referencing "hostility". Continuation of the talking points of Ledo or others as victims here is mute since you and others are not and NEVER have been.

The clear point no matter what the percentage is that Recon spamming was an exploit and has been taken out of the game for good reason. Maybe you and Ledo don't like the fact that I said it was the primary reason. Get over it and I am sorry it hurt your and his ego. We all know that there are a ton of moving pieces that have to be in place to make things work.

As of now I am putting you (Telemecus) and Ledo on ignore. To be honest I have always valued your input but this has gotten absurd with character attacks and hostility towards me.








< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 3/6/2019 2:24:00 PM >

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Post #: 829
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 3:05:29 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		I think HLYA is an excellent WITE player. I used to enjoy his posts as I learned much about this very complex game. One problem with online conversations is a loss of empathy. There are subtle signals we pick up in person we do not pick up online that allows our emotional impulsiveness and most primitive parts of our brain go un-modulated.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/18/small.vorgan.internet.empathy/index.html

HYLA has been on two crusades. One is superman German Panzers, which he resorts to personal attacks rather than a logical argument, and the second is spam recon (which has been fixed from the standpoint of 2 recon per hex). My own personal decision is to simply ignore his posts. "Don't feed the trolls." It is sad I feel I have to do this as in between these rants HYLA has very intelligent things to express to the forum; however, in my opinion it is not worth enduring the rants and personal attacks.



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Post #: 830
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 3:18:02 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

I can attest Ledo is not Telemecus, that is simply redicolous. Two people with different spreadsheet format with different word choice with different interests etc.

quote:

It isn’t as big of an investment as you think. Along with Soviet factories only being in certain key locations. Also not to mention AA through the roof to boot and and and.

I never argued that strat bombing to be war winning. I am saying it is a pipe dream if you think you are going to achieve the results that was done in this AAR if you are playing someone that is competent with Soviet Air.

We all agree with solid sov play We wont see the huge effect it had in this game. Yet
AA=Ap investment, manpower and arms and every fighter allocated for strat bomb defence is not somewhere else. The beauty of this is you have sort of a "strat bomb in being", drawing constantly sov resources if they want to def.


A couple of thoughts on Soviet AA:

1) It is very effective starting with the latest version -- so it is now worth building in my opinion . I have lost recon planes to AA <smile> let alone bombers ..

2) The heavier AA guns good against armor if it is matched up. An 85mm flak gun has a penetration of 121 and anti-armor of 22. This compared to say a 76mm ATG Penetration of 83 and anti-armor of 18. Can't say a guaranteed match up with a German tank but if you do and it hits .. "scratch 1 Pz III h .." So flak can have a chance at airplanes and tanks... then there is infantry squads

3) These weapons are not bad against infantry with a ROF 12 and anti-soft of 90 better than a 82mm motor anti-soft of 63 and a better rate of fire.

just a thought ..

< Message edited by Crackaces -- 3/6/2019 3:26:29 PM >

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Post #: 831
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 6:20:14 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

A couple of thoughts on Soviet AA:

1) It is very effective starting with the latest version -- so it is now worth building in my opinion . I have lost recon planes to AA <smile> let alone bombers ..

2) The heavier AA guns good against armor if it is matched up. An 85mm flak gun has a penetration of 121 and anti-armor of 22. This compared to say a 76mm ATG Penetration of 83 and anti-armor of 18. Can't say a guaranteed match up with a German tank but if you do and it hits .. "scratch 1 Pz III h .." So flak can have a chance at airplanes and tanks... then there is infantry squads

3) These weapons are not bad against infantry with a ROF 12 and anti-soft of 90 better than a 82mm motor anti-soft of 63 and a better rate of fire.

just a thought ..


Ontop of what Aces stated AA is also great on more forward line HQ's as they reduce any air missions effectiveness.
Any opponent planes hit on their way to flying it's mission (Flying over your army HQ's with AA on them) gets sent back to base before it's get the chance to do any damage

I find they can be great all rounders indeed by using them on the frontlines depending on your opponents playstyle!
That said I don't usually build any as they can be pretty atrocious at attempting to hit anything when newly built and you can usually evactuate plenty from cities before they are eaten up

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 832
RE: 8MP T54 AGC closes the center AAR - 3/6/2019 7:31:16 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

quote:

A couple of thoughts on Soviet AA:

1) It is very effective starting with the latest version -- so it is now worth building in my opinion . I have lost recon planes to AA <smile> let alone bombers ..

2) The heavier AA guns good against armor if it is matched up. An 85mm flak gun has a penetration of 121 and anti-armor of 22. This compared to say a 76mm ATG Penetration of 83 and anti-armor of 18. Can't say a guaranteed match up with a German tank but if you do and it hits .. "scratch 1 Pz III h .." So flak can have a chance at airplanes and tanks... then there is infantry squads

3) These weapons are not bad against infantry with a ROF 12 and anti-soft of 90 better than a 82mm motor anti-soft of 63 and a better rate of fire.

just a thought ..


Ontop of what Aces stated AA is also great on more forward line HQ's as they reduce any air missions effectiveness.
Any opponent planes hit on their way to flying it's mission (Flying over your army HQ's with AA on them) gets sent back to base before it's get the chance to do any damage

I find they can be great all rounders indeed by using them on the frontlines depending on your opponents playstyle!
That said I don't usually build any as they can be pretty atrocious at attempting to hit anything when newly built and you can usually evactuate plenty from cities before they are eaten up


+1

The "Plane X from the XYZ group turned away" result is not shown in anything besides message level 7? That is when I noticed just how effective Flak can be ...then one notices a lot more bombers shot down and a heck of a lot less damage ..

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Post #: 833
"The Dawn is surely coming.." - 3/8/2019 3:58:24 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		The title is a line from the song "Roads to Moscow." If you have never heard this ballad .. go to Youtube.

This AAR will continue as I play M60 1:1. It would be my hope that interest would arise and a team game develop again. There are lots more "negotiating" and consensus in a team game, where this game will now have one mind. I will be seeking advice and thoughts from an inner group, but overall the plan is from one commander.

I will start posting pictures once we get a few turns ahead. FOW is one of the both fun and challenging things about this game. I can say that M60 has foiled most of my planning to date. He has masterfully retreated behind rivers with fort level 2 ready to be fort level 3. Spies on both sides know the previous plans and our Southern plan was a secondary front wit the primary plan to attack in the center. However, it is clear the Soviets are very strong in the center near Tambov. It is worse than the historical Kursk position as strong Soviet Guards units are entrenched behind a minor river.

So the question remains .. where does the Wehrmacht go?

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Post #: 834
RE: "The Dawn is surely coming.." - 3/8/2019 4:04:51 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Good luck!

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Post #: 835
RE: "The Dawn is surely coming.." - 3/8/2019 5:02:13 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Good luck!


Thank You! I will need it!

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(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 836
8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/9/2019 12:48:50 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 50 03-Jun-1942 South - A look back at Soviet turn 49

When turn 50 returns we find the Soviets were not able to break our pocket - indeed we lost not one man repelling one of their attacks.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/9/2019 1:02:34 PM >

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Post #: 837
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/9/2019 12:54:45 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 50 03-Jun-1942 South - beender gives his view

There is only a narrow gap for South to launch an offensive between the mud of the weather zones on either side. But that is enough for beender, who had been our centre commander and got very bored with the mud to find an interest and make their suggestion. They see now as the opportunity to cross the river before fort levels build up, and use the mud further north to trap some units against for a pocket later.




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/9/2019 1:17:51 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 838
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/9/2019 1:02:07 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 50 03-Jun-1942 South - Options

And before you know it every body who has ever played on the Axis team is pitching in their ideas. Everybody that is except the actual South commander who is still asleep in America. While we all welcome advice - he may find this turn he is confronted with a bit too much information!

The different camps coalesce into three options all based on 3 identified weak points on the Donets defence. All agree there is an opportunity to cross with the sudden clear weather and with fort levels still low. Option A avoids crossing a major river, but will need multiple minor river crossings. Option B would give us potentially more units to be trapped against the mud further north this turn. While Option C is our route one to Stalingrad.




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/9/2019 1:04:26 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 839
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/9/2019 1:16:08 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 50 03-Jun-1942 South - Action

The after effects of having taken Sevastopol continue to reverberate. Having planned in advance for an FBD to follow close behind any advance in the south, the 11th army is able to rail right up to the front lines and take over much of the front. Our South commander is able to take both option B (with the 1st Panzer Army) and Option A (with 6th army) trapping a small pocket between them and a further group of units against the mud zone to the north. The Donets line is well and truly smashed.




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/9/2019 1:18:43 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 840
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