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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Soviets Activated....

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 12:28:53 AM

Lowpe

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With a base taken in Sakhalin, now the fleet must rearm and head east to stop the rampaging Americans.

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Post #: 1891

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 12:39:38 AM

Lowpe

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Northern Sumatra action...

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Post #: 1892

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 12:44:49 AM

Lowpe

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Nasty day in the air again...not a single Mig shot down. 25 Sallies bomb Vlad at night, not a single hit on the heavy industry there...night fighters present.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/15/2017 12:47:07 AM >

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Post #: 1893

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 12:52:03 AM

Lowpe

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Lower SRA, FUBAR, but with lots of opportunities.

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Post #: 1894

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 12:56:30 AM

Lowpe

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I might delay the attack here and pull out the weakest division. I need this base to fall.

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Post #: 1895

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 1:14:17 AM

Lowpe

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Manchuko. 60 Fighters and 21 Bombers at Mishan the first Yankee base. I suspect the bombers are doing recon work.

I would have loved to take Alexandrovsk on the cheap, but Japanese troops are always expendable and 40,000 Soviets there let me grab Shikuka quickly. Although you would say, Lowpe, you should have fought those 40K troops there in the clear where you ships can easily bombard...and I would explain, I need my ships elsewhere.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/15/2017 1:25:58 AM >

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Post #: 1896

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 1:35:29 AM

Lowpe

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Funky DL.

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Post #: 1897

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 3:23:47 AM

Insano

Posts: 228
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Nasty day in the air again...not a single Mig shot down. 25 Sallies bomb Vlad at night, not a single hit on the heavy industry there...night fighters present.

18 x PBY's destroyed on the day is good. 132 x PBY's destroyed war to date!

I'd say that's equivalent to poking one of his eyes out.

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Post #: 1898

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 10:36:45 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

So freaking cheesy having US units under the Soviet umbrella.

+1

I freely admit to weak knowledge of game mechanics and design, especially in this area. But this is so preposterous as to strain credibility beyond all bounds. Not a bug, obviously, but definitely an exploit that would, ideally, be shut down in any hypothetical new update.

Pray tell, how exactly does one "shut down in any hypothetical update" the change from Soviet to American "ownership"?

It was one of the guiding principles of the AE devs to wherever possible, not hard code outcomes but instead provide players with flexibility even though it was known that some players might "stretch" that flexibility.

There is a cost involved in manually changing base "ownership". PPs spent in doing so are not available for other actions such as unrestricting LCUs. Nor are the feared benefits of changing these bases to American "ownership" necessarily going to ensue. There is much more involved in running an effective American bombing campaign out of these bases than just transferring some long legged bomber units. The logistical infrastructure required is substantial and it is most definitely not automatically furnished by the mere act of changing the base.

In any case these bases are not Soviet country code hexes. Just because in this instance they happen to be captured by Soviet forces is irrelevant. What if they had been captured by Chinese forces or changed to Chinese "ownership" instead of American? American and British bombers can fly out of Chinese bases. In fact Lowpe is under constant attack by British Blenheims flying out of Hami or Urumchi in February and March 1942. Is that really any less "cheesy" or "preposterous". On what basis do you deem which ownership changes are OK and which aren't? Would a scenario which has the Soviets active on 7 Dec 1941 mean that a March 1942 Soviet counter offensive out of Alma Altai to liberate Urumchi from the occupying Japanese PanzerArmee which got there "fueled" by rice, not be able to rightfully return Urumchi to Chinese control.

Why is Obvert being criticised here when countless Allied AARs have screenshots of Burma, Thailand and Indo-China Swiss cheesed in 1943/44 with American, British and even Australian flagged bases. In some cases this is because the Allied player did not want to expend the PPs to avoid the "cheesiness" or they actually wanted the benefits bestowed by the outcome.

From a coding POV it would be easy to just not allow any base anywhere ever be manually changed to a different "ownership". If that happened just make certain you aren't standing in the way of the stampeding herd rushing to mug the coder who did that fix to your concern.

Alfred

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Post #: 1899

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 3:28:09 PM

jwolf

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quote:

Pray tell...

I don't. That's why I used the word "ideally" in my post. I was not attempting to give any orders to coders and game designers, merely giving my opinion as to what I believe is or is not a reasonable outcome. As to your most substantive question, to wit

quote:

On what basis do you deem which ownership changes are OK and which aren't?

I would make no attempt to give a comprehensive answer. However, for the specific instance of Soviet owned or occupied bases, we have abundant historical evidence that the answer is very clear: no, never, absolutely never would they cede anything to anyone not directly under their control, and certainly not to one of the Western powers.

Now as to this game -- as far as I know, no house rules and anything possible in the game engine is permitted. If the two players are happy, great. Nevertheless, I freely confess as a fan that I was flatly incredulous at this turn of events. Maybe that just shows my own ignorance or lack of imagination; if so, fine.

My apologies, Lowpe, for the thread hijack. Whatever happens in your game, it is an amazing spectacle to watch and your AAR is, as ever, really well done.

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Post #: 1900

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 4:16:12 PM

Lowpe

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Attempting a fast transport rescue to save a sliver of the Imperial Guards Bde at Alexandrovsk. I haven't been lucky, and can't remember if this is even possible (from a enemy base). But the ships have their orders, they are not really expendable, and hopefully can pull a fast one of the deadly Soviet CD guns. Difficult decisions...

Preparing for the fight with the US Navy in the Aleutians now. troops and supplies are loading or enroute, awaiting the TF Shokaku and the IJN to restore some balance there although I am outnumbered and outgunned, but I will be cunning if possible.

The Yamoto is green lighted, and work resumes.

A worthless r&d factory has been switched to Rufe...in anticipation of production starting next month. Need them badly. More engine growth, Tojo doesn't use the Ha35 in this game, but I will have one factory making them. Need to be ready.

AA has finally arrived, so the Boela invasion will leave in a day or two.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/15/2017 4:17:19 PM >

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Post #: 1901

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 4:24:54 PM

Lowpe

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I generally move my troops in reserve (no pursuit) mode, sometimes, especially if combat is likely, I might use move mode or reserve no pursuit or combat (if enough progress has been made).

It is important to note that fort building occurs after movement and combat, so there is a slight advantage to arriving in combat mode (if enough progress has been made) to jump start the building process.

This is the case in the escape of the Kotou pocket, troops working their way thru the woods will switch to combat mode and start digging in as they only have a mile to go.

Lashio and Wenchow attacks again today. I am going to have to pull the two good IJA divisions out of Burma now, send them to Singers, and replace with Thai troops. Not ideal, but Japan is making do with the tools at hand. Perhaps the greatest shock of the game to me, is that Obvert ceded Rangoon without a fight.

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Post #: 1902

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 4:32:13 PM

Lowpe

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I suspect in 5 or so days that Hailar will flip to American control (in north central Manchuko). This will give the Americans a nice air bridge from China, since my northern attack on China failed thanks to British bombers. I will revisit this, but it won't be in time to stop the Americans from getting a lot thru if they so decide.

One of the weaknesses of the Soviets is a lack of recon and naval search planes with legs. Not true for the Brits or Yanks though. Can Yank subs rearm and refuel at Soviet ports? I need to look that up.

Speaking of subs, I really beefed up the ASW patrols in the Straits of Malacca, enough, that I suspect the 4E bombers will target my larger runways after a day or two...perhaps this will take a little heat of Palembang.

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Post #: 1903

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 6:00:52 PM

Lokasenna

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What Alfred said is basically what I have been trying to say.

Lowpe - what are B-17 losses like so far? How's that A6M5 R&D?

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Post #: 1904

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 7:26:57 PM

Lowpe

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Below are the B17 losses to date.

Obvert was the victim of a continual night bombing campaign in his game against Jocke. In that game, night bombing was prohibited, and then allowed at some later date catching Obvert behind in production and research. But the campaign devastated Japan. So, he fully understands what a persistent and targeted night bombing campaign can do.

Here, this is 1942, and there are no night fighters for a long time. Obvert merely needs to bomb at 2000 feet say twice a month at the major manpower centers on Honshu. He has already bombed oil and refineries at 2000 feet at night. Will he do this? Or will he pick and chose say the refineries? Honshu oil production? R&D? Shipyards? Naval Yards? Repair yards? Vehicle production? or just whatever low hanging fruit to generate VP?

I doubt very much he will come during the day, except at what he thinks is weakly defended bases, and this to force me to allocate fighter protection both day and night.

Yes, he might have to curtail Soviet offensives to conserve supplies, but it won't cost that much to run 2-4 100 plane raids at 2000 feet each month or to keep up a rotating smaller unit constant night bombing campaign. B17Es and soon B24s will also generate about 3 fighter kills or more to each bomber I can bring down with fighters at night. No 12cm AA guns for a long time yet, and if I don't have radar and searchlights present in the hex that is bombed at night, the AA doesn't fire.

No, about the only hope is poor Allied play which I think is very doubtful.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/15/2017 7:27:47 PM >

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Post #: 1905

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 7:54:35 PM

Lowpe

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A6M5?

Will come on its historic date of 4/43. I am stopping all Zero research at the A6M3a.

The Jack will come in 1942 sometime.

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Post #: 1906

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 8:41:51 PM

Ardi

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Being a longtime lurker in WitP forum, I just want to drop by and thank you, Lowpe, for your amazing AARs, they are the reason while I keep being interested in this game, and if I ever play it, your AARs will be my primary source of reference, as they should be for any scrub JFB like me. Keep on fighting!

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Post #: 1907

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 8:42:18 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Can Yank subs rearm and refuel at Soviet ports? I need to look that up.

No, they cannot. Been there done that. Proper AS disbanded does not help either.
He can capture and flip Rashin though

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Post #: 1908

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 10:13:53 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Can Yank subs rearm and refuel at Soviet ports? I need to look that up.
No, they cannot. Been there done that. Proper AS disbanded does not help either.
He can capture and flip Rashin though

That is good to know. He tried taking Rashin and was rebuffed. Thank goodness.

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Post #: 1909

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 10:14:57 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ardi

Being a longtime lurker in WitP forum, I just want to drop by and thank you, Lowpe, for your amazing AARs, they are the reason while I keep being interested in this game, and if I ever play it, your AARs will be my primary source of reference, as they should be for any scrub JFB like me. Keep on fighting!

With Japan, just keeping biting. Eat an Elephant one bite at a time.

Thanks for the kind words.

(in reply to Ardi)

Post #: 1910

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 10:35:35 PM

Mahrgell

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How are you treating the Palembang action now?
a) just try to hold it somehow and continue as usual
b) actively try to bloody his nose there

Originally this looked to me like it was just a "let's see if I can grab this for cheap" op by the Allies and I would have strongly advocated a), but given your recent reports, it looks like he is really bringing something serious there. Which means also great opportunities for b).
And with mobile assets still being in limited supply for the Allies at this stage, if you catch the ones he brought there would mean you could thin out your defenses for a decent while and continue your conquest there with way less risk of traps and backstabs.
Or still just hold down there, and throw everything on the Soviet situation?

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Post #: 1911

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:04:24 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

I would wager that the vast majority of the Japanese Players have failed a morale check or two if they have played PBEM games.

That does not mean to quit the game and walk away. Morale keeps you looking for those opportunities, for those victories on the margins. Lack of morale is to just finish the turn.

I would give Lowpe credit (along with a couple of others) of keeping my PBEM games going when the results were rough.

I watched My Little Pony: The Movie and now I am right as rain. My only regret is that I can't rename my CV as the Pinkie Pie as AFB's can.

Friendship is good. An 88mm is even better.

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_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 1912

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:10:42 PM

Lowpe

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March 11, 1942

Clash at Tobali! Nice weather and both sides open up at 11,000 and rapidly close to 4,000 before drifting back and then breaking contact.

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Post #: 1913

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:20:54 PM

Lowpe

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In the early dawn, another clash!

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/15/2017 11:21:40 PM >

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Post #: 1914

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:28:08 PM

Lowpe

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Bad news...21 Zeroes engage and the Nates do most of the fighting.

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Post #: 1915

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:31:04 PM

Lowpe

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Hmm.

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Post #: 1916

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:45:13 PM

Lowpe

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Manchuko...

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Post #: 1917

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:47:17 PM

Lowpe

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Incredible!

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Post #: 1918

RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/15/2017 11:50:04 PM

Lowpe

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Butchers Bill...couldn't even knock a Yank bomber down over Palembang which took about 12% damage to the runway. Houston is listed as sunk, but she is still around and kicking.