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Defending vs Barbarossa

 
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Defending vs Barbarossa - 4/30/2017 8:20:24 PM   
GeneralJackDRipper

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 4/30/2017
Status: offline 		Anyone have any strategies for defending against Barbarossa? Obviously the Soviets can only hope to slow down the Axis, but does anyone have any particularly effective strategies? For instance, I'm debating research vs. investing early MPP in an engineer corps to set up some defenses.
Post #: 1
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 4/30/2017 9:39:59 PM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 638
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		This is the key to winning the game. It is utterly hopeless to stop a determined German player early on. What you want to do is extend the campaign into the winter of 1941-42, which is completely doable.

The engineers are helpful but they can't stop the onslaught, you must simply delay using entrenchment and the rebuild feature to the greatest advantage.

One other diversion using a UK invasion will keep the Axis off balance but make sure you can prosecute it efficiently either through the Med are directly into France. The French one will gain you the most time and cost the Germans more MPPs then anywhere else.

Good Luck!

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SeaMonkey

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RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/1/2017 5:04:59 PM   
johanssb

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 1/2/2012
Status: offline 		I call it Bump and Run. Set up roadblocks using entrenched corps or armies, preferably in forests or cities/towns. let the German bump up against you, and then run. Ideally, your next roadblock is already ready and waiting and entrenched 2-3 hexes up the road. Only stand and fight if you really have to, and try to avoid ending your turn with any of your units next to German units. Rinse and repeat...

(in reply to GeneralJackDRipper)
Post #: 3
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/2/2017 10:46:13 AM   
vonik

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/8/2011
Status: offline 		You cannot fight, you cannot run, you cannot hide .
The only thing you can do as Russian is gloriously die for the Fatherland because the UK&US ALWAYS come too late to save anything .

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Post #: 4
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/2/2017 11:10:10 AM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Actually I tend to have the opposite problem

Sure easy for the German's to advance during the first year, but the deeper the advance the harder to defend the whole front from counters. As Axis I kill a lot of Russians but with the first winter and after they build a lot more. It seems for every unit I kill, at least two new ones appear. And of course if I don't eliminate them even getting it down to one strength, the next turn it is back to 10. Surrounding doesn't do much either as even totally surrounded in what most games would be no supply they can still rebuild each turn replacing the points.

I had both SC and SC2 but this one seems to have the biggest Russian supply of new units and replacement ability.

Great game though, I guess I need some new Axis East Front strategy


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Post #: 5
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/3/2017 8:50:31 AM   
hellraiser1973

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 7/18/2016
Status: offline 		Defending against barbarossa is not really an option against a decent axis player. Delaying, yes. Distracting, yes.
Russia needs time to build a competitive army and tech up and that's not gonna happen during the first year - year and a half.
Russia can try to temporarily defend some areas of the map, using natural barriers - rivers, marshes, etc but only as a part of a broader strategy of delaying the german advance until winter time. This usually consists of a corps defence, taking good care to keep the units in supply so they can be rebuilt at half the price. Counterattacking in high axis supply areas is probably a horrible ideea (unless axis player screwed up badly somewhere). So it is best to focus on major objectives - Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad - there the reds have good supply and might just stand a chance. It is highly unlikely to hold all the major objectives but as long as you hold either moscow or stalingrad, you have a ramp to launch a counterattack when the time comes. IMHO, Rostov - Stalingrad area is very important because if axis cut caucasus off, you lose a lot of mpps.
Alternatively, Russia can try to distract axis by launching a preemptive strike on Finland, aiming to take her out thus depriving Axis of a lot of units (finns have a decent army). I'd do it immediately after germany DoW USSR, so the germans have to decide to either follow the original plan and push deep into the USSR or divert troops and bail finland out thus maybe slowing the advance on the main front. The same principle would work for an invasion of Turkey - that is contingent on axis african campaign result though. Surely this might mean you have a lot less units defending Russia proper but it might just give the allied player a breather should the germans decides to divert resources to respond to russian actions.

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 6
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/3/2017 1:02:39 PM   
GeneralJackDRipper

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 4/30/2017
Status: offline 		Hellraiser, you recommend keeping units in supply so they can be rebuilt at 1/2 price. I understand from reading the manual that units with an * next to their names in the production window are 1/2 price. I'm inferring from your point that units destroyed while in poor supply will not be 1/2 price to rebuild? I'm halfway through the (excellent) hardcover manual but had not read that.

Thanks,

Jack

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Post #: 7
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/3/2017 5:38:31 PM   
vonik

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/8/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralJackDRipper

Hellraiser, you recommend keeping units in supply so they can be rebuilt at 1/2 price. I understand from reading the manual that units with an * next to their names in the production window are 1/2 price. I'm inferring from your point that units destroyed while in poor supply will not be 1/2 price to rebuild? I'm halfway through the (excellent) hardcover manual but had not read that.

Thanks,

Jack


Yes you infer rightly . If the supply is at 5 or higher when the unit gets destroyed, it gets an * and can be rebuilt fast and cheap .
The catch being that a good German player will NOT destroy your units when they are at supply 5 + .
He will cut them off first and destroy them later . It is marginally slower but be very sure that none of your high value units (mech inf, tanks or even armies) will ever get a * .
Some infantry corps perhaps but these are cannon fodder for the Panzers anyway .

(in reply to GeneralJackDRipper)
Post #: 8
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/4/2017 3:43:40 AM   
Leadwieght

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/23/2017
Status: offline 		There's no doubt that the war is won or lost in Russia, but I think it's important to look at the larger picture when considering how to defend Russia in the 18-24 months after Barbarossa when it's most vulnerable.

Consider diversionary attacks by the Britain, even ones BEFORE Barbarossa. Obviously the British have to defend the Home Islands and Egypt, but there may be opportunities to distract the Germans in the Med or even France. The British don't have to win, they just have to draw off enough German troops and air assets to slow their Drang nach Osten.

Such diversions have to be very carefully thought out, or the Brits will lose more than they can afford, but this strategy has worked for me against human players.

(in reply to vonik)
Post #: 9
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/8/2017 12:49:53 PM   
hellraiser1973

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 7/18/2016
Status: offline 		yea vonik got it right with the supply 5+ stuff
regarding encircling then killing the red troops while in low supply - it can be done ofc but it can also be countered relatively easily by placing heaps of garrison/corps units in the area making it pretty hard to encircle the valuable assets.
maybe we should test what happens if you place units before the scripted troops get placed on the map - how their placement is affected and if the move makes sense or not

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Post #: 10
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/8/2017 3:27:54 PM   
GeneralJackDRipper

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 4/30/2017
Status: offline
quote:

maybe we should test what happens if you place units before the scripted troops get placed on the map - how their placement is affected and if the move makes sense or not

(in reply to hellraiser1973)
Post #: 11
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/9/2017 1:27:59 AM   
Leadwieght

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/23/2017
Status: offline 		I have had some success salvaging some of the Red Army "sitting ducks" that deploy automatically on the turn when the Axis does its DoW.

Prior to DoW, I deploy Garrison units on the border near the Riga, Bialystok and Lwow deployment areas, and maybe a corps in the border town to the north of Bialystok. The Garrisons form a screen that absorbs some of the Wehrmacht's first attacks and the other units are sometimes able to escape. If you have a unit already deployed in a border hex where the automatically placed unit is assigned to go, the auto unit will generally deploy "behind" it, i.e. further from the border.

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Post #: 12
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/9/2017 3:30:22 PM   
vonik

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/8/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellraiser1973

regarding encircling then killing the red troops while in low supply - it can be done ofc but it can also be countered relatively easily by placing heaps of garrison/corps units in the area making it pretty hard to encircle the valuable assets.


Frankly all this is like the proverbial snowball in hell . Everything evaporates Under the Pz/Stuka Hammer .
First you have no MPPs in 1940 to waste on corps . You have hardly enough to research the VITAL inf and armor techs and perhaps to get some anti air and engineers .
Second the more units you put forward, the more will get encircled and destroyed and there is no way to counter that - you have not enough units to place in strategical choke points let alone to try to save some 0 tech light tanks or 0 tech Mech inf .
Third even if the german player plays badly and some miracle happens, those retreating units will be caught and destroyed later anyway .

There is a much simpler way to save (almost) everything anyway. You simply don't accept the event to advance the frontier to the Bug river .
I do it routinely but those "saved" light tanks are worthless and the Mech inf as I said above dies pretty soon anyway too because you cannot afford to build reserves in 41 and once the mech inf engaged it is dead .

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Post #: 13
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/9/2017 9:53:40 PM   
hellraiser1973

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 7/18/2016
Status: offline 		just checked, those russian units spawn with zero supply so i think encircling doesnt really matter, just wipe them out and move forward

(in reply to vonik)
Post #: 14
RE: Defending vs Barbarossa - 5/10/2017 10:08:00 AM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline 		For balancing issues, it should be a good idea to spawn them with 5 supply.

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