Noob question about surface TF display screen

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Noob question about surface TF display screen

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Noob question about surface TF display screen

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 1:48:15 AM

Timotheus

Posts: 481
Joined: 12/13/2013
Status: offline

Randomly clicked to move my CV TF.

I am getting on upper left side:

Moves (m/c) 9/4 Fuel 214 / 50 (25)

am at mission speed, slowest ship is 32 knots.

I would really appreciate it if someone would explain every number to me.
I am not totally stupid (debatable), I have an idea, especially since changing speed changes numbers, but I would like to be 100% sure on every number meaning.

Especially the "Moves (m/c) 9/4" part.

I looked in the manual and nowhere is the "Moves (m/c)" part explained.

Thanks.

_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
http://tinyurl.com/k3frrle

War in the Pacific Poradnik po Polsku
http://tinyurl.com/nxd4cesh

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

Post #: 1

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 5:11:13 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

From memory, (m/c) 9/4 would mean: "maximum/cruise" 9/4 hexes

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 2

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 8:12:48 AM

gmtello

Posts: 350
Joined: 12/23/2014
Status: offline

Think 9/4 9 hexes moved by day 4 by night

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 3

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 8:15:06 AM

gmtello

Posts: 350
Joined: 12/23/2014
Status: offline

Fuel 214/50 ability to move 214 hexes with such fuel 50 the current fuel spent foro the designed mission

(in reply to gmtello)

Post #: 4

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 10:55:46 AM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmtello

Think 9/4 9 hexes moved by day 4 by night

No that's not correct.

Mission speed will use cruise speed 99% of the time.

Mission speed will increase to maximum speed for certain tasks for certain types of TFs such as Bombardment and Surface Combat when movement target hex is an enemy base.

If you use mission speed and the mission warrants cruise speed or if you manually force cruise speed you will move 4 hexes at day and 5 hexes at night for a full movement of 9 hexes.

If you get maximum speed by mission selection or by forcing it manually you will move 9 hexes at night and 9 hexes at day for a full movement of 18 hexes.

I may be mistaken about mission speed for a 4/9 speed TF allowing 5 hexes of cruise speed movement in the second phase instead of 4 but I have always counted 9 hexes of total movement for a 4/9 speed TF at mission/cruise speed.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 5/2/2017 10:57:24 AM >

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to gmtello)

Post #: 5

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 2:26:29 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

Hans,

I would like to differ with you a bit in terms of the 9/4 concept. From what I've read, yes this is mission (actually it reflects "Full" speed) speed (9) and cruise speed (4) however my understanding of this is different from yours. First if one selects that the TF or ship in question will move at fast (actually the word that better applies is "Flank" but that's just a technicality) speed, the 9 in this instance, then the TF or ship will move 9 hexes in each pulse for a total of 18 hexes (unless stopped or detained for some reason, such as a surface engagement). If one chooses mission speed for a TF or ship then that TF or ship will move at 4 hexes per pulse (total 8 in this case) BUT if provoked by certain concepts such as the mission to bombard, lay mines, encounter an enemy while searching that is beyond the 4 hex cruise speed, etc., then that TF or ship has license to increase speed to full (flank) in order to carry out that mission. Therefore in that pulse (day and/or night) the TF or ship has license to move UP TO and including 9 hexes in order to accomplish its mission. When the player selects cruise speed then one is putting on a limit to that TF or ship's speed to the second number, in this case 4 no matter what the circumstances (of course if this TF or ship enters combat then it will maneuver at a speed it needs to survive including flank speed). This is normally done to ships that are damaged so as to ensure that they don't move too fast and cause more damage to themselves. Now I've operated under this concept all the these years and would certainly be interested in knowing if I'm wrong. Hal

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 5/2/2017 2:49:29 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 6

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 2:45:36 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

Timotheus,

Obviously this is not a "nob" question as it is seen differently between very experienced players, so it's good that you bring it up. As for the second series of numbers you put forth, they are related to fuel, these numbers vary depending upon what speed you order the ship or TF to use (Fast or Mission/Cruise). You will note the numbers do NOT alter when selecting Mission or Cruise speed, as the computer doesn't know until it carries out the move if the TF or ship in question will be required to move faster than cruise speed. The numbers relate to the endurance of the TF or ship in question given its current fuel state at the beginning of the turn. The first number tells you how far the unit can travel in hexes at cruise speed. In other words its total endurance. The second set of numbers tells you how far the unit has to travel to its TARGET hex (the one you have assigned to it's mission) and then back to it's home port. This number turns red (normally it's green) if the unit does not have sufficient fuel to return to its designated home port. You will note that your first number in your example is 50 and the second number in () is 25. This means that your unit is at its home port and that you have assigned it to travel 25 hexes. Thus it must travel 25 out and then 25 back for a total of 50 hexes. If those numbers are in green, you have enough fuel to do it, if they are in red, then you don't have enough fuel give your current unit's fuel state. In a TF this is a bit more complicated as these numbers reflect the entire TF's fuel supply given that some ships might have to refuel others along the way. But you will notice that some ships in the TF might have endurance in RED as those ships sailing alone will NOT have enough fuel to complete the journey assigned. But if the overall numbers are green then given refueling, all ships should make it if refueling is possible (which it is not in the case of subs). Does this make sense? Hal

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 5/2/2017 4:22:29 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 7

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 3:29:25 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

Hal, Both of your statements are true based on past reading and my experience. As far as the RED goes, If you have way points set and a refuel option selected, it will not be reflected in the RED numbers. Also if you have an AO in the TF to refuel from, the RED numbers will also stay RED, even if the range boost is enough to complete the mission. I always keep an eye on the long range TF's just to make sure a hazard hasn't ocurred and sapped all of the fuel reserve....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

"Do everything you ask of those you command"....Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 8

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 4:19:10 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

Glad to hear some confirmation GP, thanks. I do notice that in LARGE transport or cargo TFs there are inevitably some ships with endurance in red, but if the overall endurance of the convoy is in green, than all is good to go. If it is in red, then changing the homeport to a closer port usually does the trick. This is especially true for convoys from the west coast of the US to Oz. Normally I just switch the home port of the convoy to that of the destination in Oz to forestall any excess refuelings that cost time and slows the convoy down. If you indicate the trip is ONE way by switching the homeport to the port of destination, one saves a bit of time and concern.

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 5/2/2017 4:26:45 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to btd64)

Post #: 9

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 4:27:48 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

Yeah, I've done the switch port thing as well. I just find the way points easier sometimes....GP

_____________________________

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 10

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 7:02:29 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Hans,

I would like to differ with you a bit in terms of the 9/4 concept. From what I've read, yes this is mission (actually it reflects "Full" speed) speed (9) and cruise speed (4) however my understanding of this is different from yours. First if one selects that the TF or ship in question will move at fast (actually the word that better applies is "Flank" but that's just a technicality) speed, the 9 in this instance, then the TF or ship will move 9 hexes in each pulse for a total of 18 hexes (unless stopped or detained for some reason, such as a surface engagement). If one chooses mission speed for a TF or ship then that TF or ship will move at 4 hexes per pulse (total 8 in this case) BUT if provoked by certain concepts such as the mission to bombard, lay mines, encounter an enemy while searching that is beyond the 4 hex cruise speed, etc., then that TF or ship has license to increase speed to full (flank) in order to carry out that mission. Therefore in that pulse (day and/or night) the TF or ship has license to move UP TO and including 9 hexes in order to accomplish its mission. When the player selects cruise speed then one is putting on a limit to that TF or ship's speed to the second number, in this case 4 no matter what the circumstances (of course if this TF or ship enters combat then it will maneuver at a speed it needs to survive including flank speed). This is normally done to ships that are damaged so as to ensure that they don't move too fast and cause more damage to themselves. Now I've operated under this concept all the these years and would certainly be interested in knowing if I'm wrong. Hal

Hal, the only thing we differ on is if you get 9 hexes of movement in two phases at mission speed.
I stated that I might be mistaken, but I still swear and will try and check up on it tonight that my 9/4 TF move 9 hexes in two phases.
Kind of hard to determine if the extra hex happens at night or day since it happens in the middle of turn execution.

Haven't looked to see if the same is true for 5/11 speed TFs (very fast destroyers).

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 11

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 8:58:14 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

A somewhat minor point, but I believe Hans is correct. Most combat TF's will have a cruise speed of 15 knots. This means that they will travel 360nm in 24 hours. Divide that by the hex size of 40nm and you get 9 hexes. Ta-dah.

Edit: Ah, algebra. No, I don't know where your 'x' is, and don't ask 'y'.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 5/2/2017 9:00:13 PM >

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 12

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 9:55:44 PM

gmtello

Posts: 350
Joined: 12/23/2014
Status: offline

See if i got it. 9/4 mission speed means a total of 9 hexes of move 5/4 day and night. But if the tf reads 5/11 mission speed What does it mean a total of 5 ?? And Number eleven??

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 13

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/2/2017 10:39:31 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmtello

See if i got it. 9/4 mission speed means a total of 9 hexes of move 5/4 day and night. But if the tf reads 5/11 mission speed What does it mean a total of 5 ?? And Number eleven??

No.

See my posts in this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3911830&mpage=1&key=speed�

Alfred

(in reply to gmtello)

Post #: 14

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/6/2017 9:08:19 PM

twenck99

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/20/2017
Status: offline

As a total noob, I had to really dig in to figure this out. As the previous replies seemed a bit "fuzzy" I thought I would lay it out:

Moves (m/c) 9/4 Fuel 214 / 50 (25)

9 = hexes moved per phase at max speed
4 = hexes moved per phase at cruise speed
214 = total range in hexes at cruise speed
50 = distance in hexes for current orders (destination + return to home port)
(25) = distance in hexes to current destination

Also, there seems to be some confusion over speed versus mode.
Every ship (and Task Force) has a cruise speed and a max speed in knots (hexes per phase).
You can set the mode to Cruise Speed (TF will move at cruise speed), Full Speed (TF will move at max speed), or Mission Speed (TF will move at whatever speed is deemed appropriate).

Hope this is clear and correct.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 15

RE: Noob question about surface TF display screen - 5/7/2017 3:26:55 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twenck99

As a total noob, I had to really dig in to figure this out. As the previous replies seemed a bit "fuzzy" I thought I would lay it out:

Moves (m/c) 9/4 Fuel 214 / 50 (25)

9 = hexes moved per phase at max speed
4 = hexes moved per phase at cruise speed
214 = total range in hexes at cruise speed
50 = distance in hexes for current orders (destination + return to home port)
(25) = distance in hexes to current destination

Also, there seems to be some confusion over speed versus mode.
Every ship (and Task Force) has a cruise speed and a max speed in knots (hexes per phase).
You can set the mode to Cruise Speed (TF will move at cruise speed), Full Speed (TF will move at max speed), or Mission Speed (TF will move at whatever speed is deemed appropriate).

Hope this is clear and correct.

This is pretty much correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Hans,

I would like to differ with you a bit in terms of the 9/4 concept. From what I've read, yes this is mission (actually it reflects "Full" speed) speed (9) and cruise speed (4) however my understanding of this is different from yours. First if one selects that the TF or ship in question will move at fast (actually the word that better applies is "Flank" but that's just a technicality) speed, the 9 in this instance, then the TF or ship will move 9 hexes in each pulse for a total of 18 hexes (unless stopped or detained for some reason, such as a surface engagement). If one chooses mission speed for a TF or ship then that TF or ship will move at 4 hexes per pulse (total 8 in this case) BUT if provoked by certain concepts such as the mission to bombard, lay mines, encounter an enemy while searching that is beyond the 4 hex cruise speed, etc., then that TF or ship has license to increase speed to full (flank) in order to carry out that mission. Therefore in that pulse (day and/or night) the TF or ship has license to move UP TO and including 9 hexes in order to accomplish its mission. When the player selects cruise speed then one is putting on a limit to that TF or ship's speed to the second number, in this case 4 no matter what the circumstances (of course if this TF or ship enters combat then it will maneuver at a speed it needs to survive including flank speed). This is normally done to ships that are damaged so as to ensure that they don't move too fast and cause more damage to themselves. Now I've operated under this concept all the these years and would certainly be interested in knowing if I'm wrong. Hal

Hal, the only thing we differ on is if you get 9 hexes of movement in two phases at mission speed.
I stated that I might be mistaken, but I still swear and will try and check up on it tonight that my 9/4 TF move 9 hexes in two phases.
Kind of hard to determine if the extra hex happens at night or day since it happens in the middle of turn execution.

Haven't looked to see if the same is true for 5/11 speed TFs (very fast destroyers).

The "extra hex" happens sometimes, basically for the reason that the speed given in hexes (whether cruise or maximum) is an approximation based on just 1 phase of movement - and you can't move a partial hex. However, since there are 2 phases of movement, at some point there is something in that code that's either always been there or was added in a beta/patch which will calculate the total possible distance moved which is 360nm for 15 knots for 24 hours... which is 9 hexes, as another poster said.

Therefore, I'd suspect that additional hex is in the second movement phase (morning/day).

I'm pretty sure that the "5/11 speed TFs" are actually Fletchers, which still have a cruise speed of 15 knots to my knowledge - therefore they're actually 4/11 for speed. They would still go just 9 hexes at most when traveling at cruise speed, not 11.

In most cases, I still see TFs travel at 8 hexes per day.

(in reply to twenck99)

Post #: 16