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RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 6/18/2018 2:32:23 PM

ITAKLinus

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

Few big questions regarding R&D

I am in the end of March 1942 and I am rushing straight into A6M8 in order to get it ASAP. I wanted to split between CAP A6M8 and Escort A6M5c but at the end I decided to push directly to the A6M8 and **** everything.

Now the big question: would I be able to survive somehow with A6M8 as main fighter basically everywhere while I go direct to Tojo-IIc / last George / Oscar-IV? At the very same time they are all atopping gap while I R&D Frank.r

My very basic idea is to be conservative in airframes and pilots and rush late late late models.

Does anyone achieved something trying that? I am also giving a shot to a furious research of Ki-94-II: I think I have 20 industries on that, a couple are even repaired at 1(0).... Some others reached 4 or 5(26 or 25). Most are at 1(29).

6x30 on A6M8 fully repaired.
6x30 Tojo (repairing)
6x30 Oscar (repairing)
6x30 Frank (barely repairing)
5x30 George (barely repairing)

I begint to think I have screwed up everything with this trash idea of skipping everything and arriving to the very last models using A6M2 and Oscar Ic in the meanwhile...........

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 61

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 6/18/2018 5:45:37 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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You will need to look at what planes your units can fly. Obviously, IJAAF units can't fly IJNAF planes.

You will need stopgaps before the Frank-r, and you will need more than just the Frank-r due to its SR of 3.

It would be inadvisable to only have the A6M8 (whenever you manage to get it) and the N1K5, as this will leave you with quite a bit of time when you are running the A6M2 for everything and then the A6M8 for everything (you will get it prior to the N1K5). It would be better to produce some Jack and/or George in the interim. The A6M8 is a very poor CAP plane for LBA when compared to the Jack or George.

You can get the Tojo-IIa very early. Just produce that in high numbers for a while. It will be your mainstay prior to the -IIc and the Frank, and is a fine plane.

Best of luck in your experiment. It's not something I would do, personally, but I see the argument to try to maximize the resources on getting the best planes as early as possible.

(in reply to ITAKLinus)

Post #: 62

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 6/18/2018 6:43:04 PM

AcePylut

Posts: 1494
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This game died a long time ago, so I don't feel like I'm breaking any rules by reading this.

ACEPYLUT IS HERE!

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Post #: 63

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 6/18/2018 9:23:08 PM

Anachro

Posts: 2506
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline

Villainous, illicit spycraft, but feel free to make use of my poor air plans

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Post #: 64

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 6/28/2018 2:46:33 PM

ITAKLinus

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You will need to look at what planes your units can fly. Obviously, IJAAF units can't fly IJNAF planes.

You will need stopgaps before the Frank-r, and you will need more than just the Frank-r due to its SR of 3.

It would be inadvisable to only have the A6M8 (whenever you manage to get it) and the N1K5, as this will leave you with quite a bit of time when you are running the A6M2 for everything and then the A6M8 for everything (you will get it prior to the N1K5). It would be better to produce some Jack and/or George in the interim. The A6M8 is a very poor CAP plane for LBA when compared to the Jack or George.

You can get the Tojo-IIa very early. Just produce that in high numbers for a while. It will be your mainstay prior to the -IIc and the Frank, and is a fine plane.

Best of luck in your experiment. It's not something I would do, personally, but I see the argument to try to maximize the resources on getting the best planes as early as possible.

Well I see your point of course.

The thinking behind my reasoning is that allied players are broadly much more defensive on the Italian forum and therefore I�d like to take advantage of that.

My adversary is an extremely capable and experienced player while I�m at my second PBEM (the first one lasted until aug 1942....) so I am trying to maximize my survival chances.

Even if I know rushing A6M8 is a poor choice I do believe I can try to survive with it until George arrives. I won�t produce any tony or jack.

I will try to use A6M2 until Q2 1943. Crazy, I know, but i decided to bet on a strongly defensive behavior by allied player until Essex arrival.

Waiting until that date with A6M8 and Oscar Ic is going to be a pain though. Even with pdu on.

My idea is pretty simple: spread the pain between the beginning of the game and the mid to late one. Suffering a bit now should allow me to get better airframes sooner and this suffering less in mid game where the allies begin their offensives and are in theory more exposed.

I�m going very (VERY) big on Ki-94-II also. And producing only 100 Zero and 100 Oscar per month

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 65

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 8/3/2018 5:17:55 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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Does anyone have the airframe production flow chart? I can't find mine and search didn't work for me....GP

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(in reply to ITAKLinus)

Post #: 66

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 8/3/2018 5:48:38 PM

Anachro

Posts: 2506
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
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Here are the AC flowcharts + my own powerpoint. The PPT version in here might be old. Feel free to edit and use as you see fit:

CLICK HERE

< Message edited by Anachro -- 8/3/2018 5:49:02 PM >

(in reply to btd64)

Post #: 67

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 8/3/2018 6:11:59 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Here are the AC flowcharts + my own powerpoint. The PPT version in here might be old. Feel free to edit and use as you see fit:

CLICK HERE

Thanks. I found the one I was looking for, but I will use yours as well....GP

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(in reply to Anachro)

Post #: 68

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 12/24/2018 12:02:45 AM

Anachro

Posts: 2506
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From: The Coastal Elite
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The game begins again - I might need someone to take a look at my actual air production plans in a few weeks and tell me how badly I'm running the whole operation. 5x30 factories is the most efficient with the engine bonus, right? Engine bonus is a pool of...500 engines?

Also, I feel like trying to start R&D on the frank from day 1 given how slow the factories repair is inefficient. How do others approach starting R&D on later war planes? Do you not begin till at a later date?

(in reply to btd64)

Post #: 69

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 5/15/2019 9:01:26 PM

spw1

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/15/2019
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How did your restart with changes to your aircraft production and R&D go? Any lessons learned you care to share with us?

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Post #: 70

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 5/16/2019 12:24:05 AM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

The game begins again - I might need someone to take a look at my actual air production plans in a few weeks and tell me how badly I'm running the whole operation. 5x30 factories is the most efficient with the engine bonus, right? Engine bonus is a pool of...500 engines?

Also, I feel like trying to start R&D on the frank from day 1 given how slow the factories repair is inefficient. How do others approach starting R&D on later war planes? Do you not begin till at a later date?

There was some test long ago, and R&D factories always repair in about 2/3rd time between actual availability date, and investing in right size factory. So, the latter you set your research, the latter they will be fully repaired, and you will have less time for actual acceleration. You should begin with first turn, and you should set target factory size from the start, as it influences repair possibility.
Also, anything bigger than size 30 doesn't give you any additional research, until IIRC 300. So if you are planning to have size 300 factory eventually, go ahead, and invest in it already. But if you are planning to turn one of R&D factories into production, you also can set its desired size from the start. It should repair in the same timeframe, as size 30, and you will get full production from the start (or you can enlarge it right before availability, as R&D always repair, if factory have more to repair, than days to availability left).

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Post #: 71

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 5/16/2019 12:40:54 AM

John B.

Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
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Sorry for the ignorance, but it's my first game as the Japanese. Is the best size for an R&D factory 30?

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Post #: 72

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 5/16/2019 3:05:29 AM

jdsrae

Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
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If Carlsberg did research factories they�d be size 30.
I trust the background work done by others in this space and it is playing out true in my current game vs AI.

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Post #: 73

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 5/16/2019 10:23:15 AM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Sorry for the ignorance, but it's my first game as the Japanese. Is the best size for an R&D factory 30?

The code for research is strangely written, and single factory of size 30-299 produces the same amount of research, so no point in making it bigger than 30, unless you are planning to turn it into production soon.

MichaelM shown this code few years ago, when he was still tinkering with BETA.

(in reply to John B.)

Post #: 74

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 5/16/2019 11:41:53 AM

tarkalak

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/26/2017
From: Bulgaria
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There is a post (by Alfred?) that said something like that:

quote:

Each completely repaired air factory has a chance to produce 0,1,2 or 3 research points.

Size 30 guarantees 1 point and size 300 guarantees 2 points per day.

No idea what is the chance for the interim values.

Is 5 size 30 factories better than 6 size 25 factories?

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Post #: 75

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 5/16/2019 12:35:11 PM

GetAssista

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Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.
Sorry for the ignorance, but it's my first game as the Japanese. Is the best size for an R&D factory 30?

Yes.
+1 RP per day, +2 with engine bonus consuming 1 engine. To get more you have to do some ridiculous buildup which is hardly ever viable

(in reply to John B.)

Post #: 76

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 2/5/2021 10:04:04 PM

Oddball67

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/13/2020
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quote:

Thanks for all the discussion.
Can anyone confirm me something : is it necessary to research a previous plane before researching the next one ?

Imagine i don't want to produce any ki-61, but want the ki-100 later on, is it more interesting to research directly the ki-100, or the first ki-61 and all the next ones ? seeing the number of different ki-61, i would say directly the ki-100?

Imagine i don't want to produce any B6N1 Jill (specific engine), but want the B6N2 Jill later on, is it more interesting to research directly the B6N2 Jill, or the B6N1 and then the B6N2 ? because of the engine bonus, i would say directly the B6N2 Jill ? But i fear i could be blocked by the fact there are only 5 monthes between the 2 models ?

Imagine i don't want to produce any J2M2 Jack (same arrival date as N1K1-J George), but want the J2M3 Jack later on, is it more interesting to research directly the J2M3, or the J2M2 and then the J2M3 ? No idea here

Imagine i don't want to produce any P1Y1 Frances (bad service rating), but want the P1Y2 Frances later on, is it more interesting to research directly the P1Y2 , or the P1Y1 and then the P1Y2 ? No idea here again

thanks in advance, i'm only starting to try to understand the japanese R&D

edit : created a new topic for the question, not really about strategy but game understanding

< Message edited by Oddball67 -- 2/6/2021 5:08:00 AM >

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Post #: 77

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 2/6/2021 12:02:26 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

There is a post (by Alfred?) that said something like that:

quote:

Each completely repaired air factory has a chance to produce 0,1,2 or 3 research points.

Size 30 guarantees 1 point and size 300 guarantees 2 points per day.

No idea what is the chance for the interim values.

Is 5 size 30 factories better than 6 size 25 factories?

The factory has a chance of producing a repair point based on the formula of size/30. So if you have a size 30 factory the ratio is 30/30 =1, and there will be a point generated every day. If you used six size 25 factories, there is a 25/30 chance of producing the point and a 5/30 chance of not producing the point - every single day. Over time that will mean you lose 5 points per month for each of the 25 point factories.

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Post #: 78

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 2/7/2021 12:15:26 PM

RADM.Yamaguchi

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Do most Japanese players leave the Maebashi size 55 Ki-84A Frank factory alone? Have you ever had it be the first Ki-84A factory to repair? Mine just repaired before any of my size 30 Ki-84A factories. Is that supposed to happen?

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Post #: 79

RE: Japanese Air Production Plans - No AcePylut! - 2/7/2021 2:50:08 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RADM.Yamaguchi

Do most Japanese players leave the Maebashi size 55 Ki-84A Frank factory alone? Have you ever had it be the first Ki-84A factory to repair? Mine just repaired before any of my size 30 Ki-84A factories. Is that supposed to happen?

Frankly, I don't know!

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Post #: 80

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