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OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth

 
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OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/29/2017 10:20:10 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I just loved this show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV3SAAtb3XY

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/29/2017 11:35:06 PM   
btd64


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Status: offline 		Cool Video. Thanks for sharing....GP

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/30/2017 5:33:21 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		Surprised they couldn't recognize him. I mean he was a famous war hero

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/30/2017 12:48:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I guess he wasn't all that famous compared to Audie Murphy, Douglas McArthur, Dwight Eisenhower, James Doolittle, Chester Nimitz, Jimmy Stewart, John F. Kennedy, etc. He was one among many.

The nation was filled with war heroes in the '50s, so the reception he got was respectful but not effusive. Imagine how the audience would've reacted had this been filmed in the '90s, when Brokaw's The Greatest Generation captured the reverence with which a nation was looking back on the '40s (Boyington died in the '80s, though, I think). By then "Baa, Baa Black Sheep" would've made Boyington far more widely known and appreciated.

Thanks, Ross, for sharing this.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/30/2017 4:04:27 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I guess he wasn't all that famous compared to Audie Murphy, Douglas McArthur, Dwight Eisenhower, James Doolittle, Chester Nimitz, Jimmy Stewart, John F. Kennedy, etc. He was one among many.

The nation was filled with war heroes in the '50s, so the reception he got was respectful but not effusive. Imagine how the audience would've reacted had this been filmed in the '90s, when Brokaw's The Greatest Generation captured the reverence with which a nation was looking back on the '40s (Boyington died in the '80s, though, I think). By then "Baa, Baa Black Sheep" would've made Boyington far more widely known and appreciated.

Thanks, Ross, for sharing this.


Also, Boyington was a bit controversial for the American political and PR machine to get behind. He was an alcoholic and a bit too unpredictable to shove in front public eye. In addition, there were gossip that he exaggerated his China air victory claims. Plenty of other "clean" war heroes to promote. Warts and all, there was no doubt that he was a first class pilot.


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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/30/2017 8:30:56 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		I am also surprised those 50s housewives could tell a Corsair from a P-40

And probably this was way before "Baa, Baa Black Sheep" TV series

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/30/2017 9:32:22 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		He did a walk on in a 1964 TV show produced by Gene Roddenberry , The Lieutenant. In uniform.

I saw him at NAS Memphis in 1977 (VM-214 was having a reunion). He looked so poorly I almost didn't recognize him. I actually had to check against a (then recent) newspaper photo. I guess alcoholism really was rough on him.


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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/30/2017 10:05:06 PM   
Big B

 

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From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		I met Pappy Boyington and Saburo Sakai in La Habra at an Air Expo back in the late 1980s.
They both had booths across from each other, and were promoting/selling their books.

Pappy made it clear he wasn't a real friend of Saburo. Saburo was rather neutral about it all, honestly - in 1989 I didn't know their history nor animosity.

I wish I had that opportunity to revisit that day - today, much more informed.


B

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/31/2017 1:02:09 AM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
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Status: offline 		Thanks for the link, never knew he was on the show. Can't imagine what he went through in the war and as a POW, may well have played a role in alchohal use/abuse

One poster was surprised the housewives knew a P-40. Don't forget, they went through WWII alos, they may have built the planes, had brothers or husbands that flew or fixed them.


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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/31/2017 1:34:28 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Status: offline 		I shook hands with Pappy at the Oshkosh Air Show circa 1983 as my dad bought his book. He attended that show a number of years. I didn't notice any particular effects of alcoholism, but of course I wasn't looking for that. One of my favorite shows of the 70s was "Baa, Baa Black Sheep," so the experience of meeting Col. Boyington was all positive for me.

As a side note, I had a 7th grade field trip to Universal Studios and ran into the VMF-214 pilots in uniform near the set. The main thing I remember was that I was taller than Robert Conrad.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/31/2017 2:03:21 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

In addition, there were gossip that he exaggerated his China air victory claims.


My understanding is he did not get credit for aircraft shot down prior to the tigers becoming an 'official' unit. Anyone have reliable information?

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/31/2017 4:44:35 PM   
Korvar


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Status: offline 		Thanks for posting this!

<------ I suppose you can tell by my avatar that I enjoyed it.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 7/31/2017 5:42:10 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Boyington was a maverick, even by AVG standards, and did not make friends in that unit.
They claimed he was full of himself back then, and as they were paid per plane shot down, claimed he exaggerated his claims, however, if his future kill history is any indication, it might have been that those others of the AVG had sour grapes?

After the war, as stated, true war "heroes" were a dime a dozen.
I lived with one, as my dad survived Omaha Beach, and being an Army Officer, it was kinda natural for he and Dick Winters to become friends at Camp Indiantown Gap, PA.
(Maj Winters of "BAND OF BROTHERS")
(EDIT:..I mentioned this because after that war, veterans and heroes were very commonplace, and my generation of early "baby-boomers" were surrounded by them.
The man living in a rental next door was an ex German U boote crewmember who had lost a leg in the war.
Dad made a lot of friends with other veterans, but like me, never joined any of those "professional veterans" groups..)

Boyington became a wrestling fight promoter and was very successful.

< Message edited by m10bob -- 8/1/2017 12:37:43 PM >

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/4/2017 11:02:39 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

In addition, there were gossip that he exaggerated his China air victory claims.


quote:

My understanding is he did not get credit for aircraft shot down prior to the tigers becoming an 'official' unit. Anyone have reliable information?


OK, so going from memory here. One thing was some AVG members wanted to 'share the kills' from each mission as they got bonuses for each downed plane. IOW 'share the wealth'. Boyington was broke and didn't like the idea. The other thing that was said is that he claimed some A/C destroyed on the ground with the AVG as 'air kills'.

quote:

Can't imagine what he went through in the war and as a POW, may well have played a role in alchohal use/abuse


Not saying this didn't make it worse, but 'Pappy' was a heavy hitter before the war. IOW a heavy drinker.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/5/2017 9:43:57 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Well, even though they didn't have the term, plenty of wwii vets suffered PTSD, and Boyington had more than his fair share of experiences to deal with. Whether he was a heavy drinker before china, I don't know. He might have been a heavy social drinker before china, as that was quite acceptable behavior. But certainly after china, if the books are accurate, he drank very heavy and that was likely due to PTSD. Known a lot of vets from a lotta wars ... they all deal with it in their own way, but they do deal with it. Some better than others ...


Had a friend pass a few years ago. He drank a pint of gin every evening and re-flew his missions every night. He would stay at my place on trips into town and I could hear him in the other bedroom for hours .... every night. Its a heavy burden ...

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/5/2017 10:24:12 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		From the most credible AVG website I've seen.

http://www.warbirdforum.com/gregboy.htm

http://www.warbirdforum.com/boying.htm

http://www.warbirdforum.com/kawato.htm

< Message edited by JeffK -- 8/5/2017 10:40:48 PM >

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/6/2017 6:17:57 AM   
Lovejoy


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/16/2015
From: United States
Status: offline 		Boyington's problems with alcohol seem similar to General Jonathan Wainwright's problems with it. Wainwright was considered a heavy social drinker before World War II. Having to surrender the Philippines to Japan and then spend 4 years as a prisoner, all the while believing that he was the most hated man in America for having surrendered, caused him to have pretty bad problems to the point where his alcoholism became problematic for the Army. One of the reasons Eisenhower appointed Wainwright to command the U.S 4th Army in Texas was a hope that active command would help him stay sober.


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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/6/2017 2:42:48 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		PTSD in that war was referred to as "combat fatigue".

Some of those guys drank booze as a "malaria inhibitor".
My Uncle Jim was on Guadalcanal and contracted malaria, and never could drink so I dunno if it worked or not.
I never contracted it.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/6/2017 8:33:55 PM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		Boyington was a "noisy" drunk before he went to China, why would the Marines let a regular Officer head off to China (All other Officers were reservist)On the way to China he got drunk, in China he got drunk, dont use his experiences as a PoW as an excuse for his behaviour.

FRom all I've read he was a great pilot, his behaviour on the ground abysmyl.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/6/2017 9:58:23 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

FRom all I've read he was a great pilot, his behaviour on the ground abysmyl.


Yeah, probably would have been better if he could've stayed in the air all the time.

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/7/2017 3:13:38 AM   
LST Express


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Status: offline 		Sounds like Pappy wasn't a choir boy.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/7/2017 10:51:05 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I think he answered two questions wrong as well. From my army days we learned everyone must salute a medal of honor winner first, including the CnC.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/7/2017 10:53:35 AM   
zuluhour


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Status: offline 		I would think he would have known Annapolis is also for the Marine Corps.

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/7/2017 1:48:54 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		IMHO, I could care less about his boozing. The man was going to the rescue of one of his pilots, knowing he was low altitude, low ammo, low speed. In today''s world he would have received a MoH. Puritan thinking on his life style kept that from happening. He was still an impressive man...for a marine

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RE: OT (slightly) Pappy Boyington on To Tell the Truth - 8/7/2017 2:39:00 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
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Status: offline 		"...for a marine "

+1 ( lol)

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