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VR war games - 8/7/2017 6:17:46 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		Those of you who haven't kept up with recent developments of virtual reality, this is the lead of home VR systems right now. Could such things be useful in war gaming? How about this: there is a virtual game table up to the size of your own room, and instead of scrolling the map around, you move your own head and body around like you were playing tabletop war game. With Vive's controllers (Rift's can work too) you can move game pieces around almost the same way as cardboard counters. And game pieces don't need to look like cardboard counters: those could be animated like hologram equivalent of Chess on Millennium Falcon. Neat idea, huh?

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RE: VR war games - 8/7/2017 8:58:25 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
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From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline 		I'm not ready for VR gaming yet...

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RE: VR war games - 8/8/2017 9:12:48 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Yeah not many wargames have VR settings, mostly are 3D roaming around such as 3rd person shooter games. When a customer buy one of those VR set, prepare for motion sickness and some cant get around this. A friend of mine bought one and wasn't happy with it, couldn't even get his money back.

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RE: VR war games - 8/8/2017 11:42:06 AM   
shunwick


Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		Might try VR when they are £35 in Tesco's.

Best wishes,
Steve

< Message edited by shunwick -- 8/8/2017 1:45:04 PM >

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RE: VR war games - 8/8/2017 12:05:12 PM   
RodyMetal


Posts: 153
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline 		I think VR is still in early development, and for wargamers I think it can be good only for flight simulation and maybe tank simulation games, that is all, for strategy wargames I think super touch screen development is indeed needed and it would be more beneficial for wargaming, until now the Keyboard and Mouse are the boss.

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RE: VR war games - 8/8/2017 12:42:18 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		When thinking of VR wargames, I'd only really focused on FPS games, maybe flight sims, but I think the OP's ideas are interesting--imagine having a huge miniatures table--without the table, or the need to paint thousands of figures, and with realistic terrain, buildings, weather, animated troops, etc--it could be pretty cool.

In any event, I'm not sure how much programming time/resources this would require and I doubt that it would be realistic to see the kind of games we see at Matrix in VR format for a long, long time.

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RE: VR war games - 8/8/2017 12:53:48 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Well I am working my way up there, planning on getting the Oculus Rift by end of the year. Skyrim is one that I would like to have with VR, not sure what else.

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RE: VR war games - 8/8/2017 1:47:12 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		VR of any sort likely would be beyond me. But that is a reflection of my vision limitations.

I can't see 3d and I have trouble tracking movement in video games.

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RE: VR war games - 8/8/2017 6:17:28 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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Joined: 4/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well I am working my way up there, planning on getting the Oculus Rift by end of the year. Skyrim is one that I would like to have with VR, not sure what else.

My choice is HTC Vive because it is easier & faster to set up and my intention is to drag it around game events and small cons (hundreds visitors, not thousands). My plan this time around is to buy it (along with a sufficient PC to run it) in November and set it up in an empty room on my brother's house (my apartment doesn't cut for the size). Who right now is stressed with workload and doesn't allow me to set it up until November at earliest. Gotta install software and learn to use it myself before I can take it around and show others how to use it.

What I have found out about Vive thus far is unsupported game appears as a window inside virtual space which can be left outside field of vision by turning your head. So in Clint's case (YouTuber linked in the first post) Skyrim game would appear as a floating window in a holodeck (virtual space), which goes outside field of view by turning head, and resolution of the game window is so low that text can be unreadable. So much about using Vive as a monitor only and TrackIR for turning the field of view in a supported game. There appears to be some hack jobs around, but those aren't the most reliable yet. I don't know what is the case with Oculus Rift and others.

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Post #: 9
RE: VR war games - 8/9/2017 3:14:40 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well I am working my way up there, planning on getting the Oculus Rift by end of the year. Skyrim is one that I would like to have with VR, not sure what else.

My choice is HTC Vive because it is easier & faster to set up and my intention is to drag it around game events and small cons (hundreds visitors, not thousands). My plan this time around is to buy it (along with a sufficient PC to run it) in November and set it up in an empty room on my brother's house (my apartment doesn't cut for the size). Who right now is stressed with workload and doesn't allow me to set it up until November at earliest. Gotta install software and learn to use it myself before I can take it around and show others how to use it.

What I have found out about Vive thus far is unsupported game appears as a window inside virtual space which can be left outside field of vision by turning your head. So in Clint's case (YouTuber linked in the first post) Skyrim game would appear as a floating window in a holodeck (virtual space), which goes outside field of view by turning head, and resolution of the game window is so low that text can be unreadable. So much about using Vive as a monitor only and TrackIR for turning the field of view in a supported game. There appears to be some hack jobs around, but those aren't the most reliable yet. I don't know what is the case with Oculus Rift and others.


Yeah the Vive might look cool, but after I did some research on it between the Rift and Vive, there are up and down. Most people like the Rift better, cause it was lighter weight and not much trouble to deal with. On the other hand, if you peel off that plastic cover on the face guard on either one of them, you wont be able to return it for refund. If you are not sure about getting one and don't want to waste that much money, try finding one in your area for try out.

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RE: VR war games - 8/9/2017 4:01:08 AM   
Kuokkanen

 

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Joined: 4/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Yeah the Vive might look cool, but after I did some research on it between the Rift and Vive, there are up and down. Most people like the Rift better, cause it was lighter weight and not much trouble to deal with.

Here is a differing opinion. This is important part for me: setting up Rift takes more time with more USB cables connected to computer. Also I've been told Vive has got wireless version of headset available right now and some folks in Finland have already got it. I will look up for other comparison videos after work.

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RE: VR war games - 8/9/2017 12:43:24 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Yeah the Vive might look cool, but after I did some research on it between the Rift and Vive, there are up and down. Most people like the Rift better, cause it was lighter weight and not much trouble to deal with.

Here is a differing opinion. This is important part for me: setting up Rift takes more time with more USB cables connected to computer. Also I've been told Vive has got wireless version of headset available right now and some folks in Finland have already got it. I will look up for other comparison videos after work.


Yeah wireless sound cool and not too much hassle, but does it have led light for battery life? If it running low and playing one of those game got killed, would be funny. I have seen so many game ragers that throwing stuffs around and cussing. Hopefully it has a charger built into it, or otherwise would been buying those rechargeable batteries.

I am pretty sure those who made Oculus Rift, will do the same in the future too.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 8/9/2017 12:44:51 PM >

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RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 2:28:48 AM   
balto

 

Posts: 1123
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		This is the best type of VR gaming: www.vrdesigns.net

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Post #: 13
RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 5:02:34 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		Little beside the topic, but:
ELDERS REACT TO HTC VIVE (VR)

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Post #: 14
RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 6:08:11 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		VR imo will go the same way as betamax and also 3dTV's and be a total waste of space, nice as a quick gimmick or for consoles or fairs, but not in gaming at all, same as 3dTV's, after even a short space of time, your head and neck aches and your eyes feels dog tired, anyone who thinks it's good needs to see a high end set up, then it makes the cheaper ones most use looks really cheap and nasty, and with the costs of the high end ones, still be silly money, even when it comes down in price, by them something much better will replace it, seen all sorts which most said was going to take over, and still we have a keyboard and mouse, best gaming setup ever full stop...

yes i have strong opinions which tend to be at a later date wrong sometimes, but this is my opinion now of the tech and software that's out, and for the money, i'd get a better high end monitor (or 2) which imo would be used more and last longer and also be supported more and for longer, which also would work out cheaper and better for my eyes

< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/10/2017 6:11:13 PM >

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RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 6:22:50 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		VR and 3D..... not with one eye being 20/400.

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Post #: 16
RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 6:49:12 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

VR imo will go the same way as betamax and also 3dTV's and be a total waste of space, nice as a quick gimmick or for consoles or fairs, but not in gaming at all, same as 3dTV's, after even a short space of time, your head and neck aches and your eyes feels dog tired, anyone who thinks it's good needs to see a high end set up, then it makes the cheaper ones most use looks really cheap and nasty, and with the costs of the high end ones, still be silly money, even when it comes down in price, by them something much better will replace it, seen all sorts which most said was going to take over, and still we have a keyboard and mouse, best gaming setup ever full stop...

yes i have strong opinions which tend to be at a later date wrong sometimes, but this is my opinion now of the tech and software that's out, and for the money, i'd get a better high end monitor (or 2) which imo would be used more and last longer and also be supported more and for longer, which also would work out cheaper and better for my eyes


Very True, many have gotten motion sickness from it. Some can recover from it and some cant. Guess they just cant stop using it and become addicted to it. I gonna wait next year before I get one anyway, need to save to move to cheaper place. Living in NY isn't cheap and expensive. Still think Oculus Rift is the best choice, you can sit down and use it or get up, only dealing with spaces and cables hanging from it.

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RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 7:22:49 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

VR imo will go the same way as betamax and also 3dTV's and be a total waste of space, nice as a quick gimmick or for consoles or fairs, but not in gaming at all, same as 3dTV's, after even a short space of time, your head and neck aches and your eyes feels dog tired, anyone who thinks it's good needs to see a high end set up, then it makes the cheaper ones most use looks really cheap and nasty

Number of YouTube videos tell they don't get headaches. Can you show me a video where is said otherwise?

[edit]
Or are you talking about your own personal experience?

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 8/10/2017 7:38:04 PM >

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 7:39:35 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		Just now I looked up on Steam for turn-based games that support VR. One match: Battle Fleet 2

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Post #: 19
RE: VR war games - 8/10/2017 7:49:23 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		personal experience MK

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RE: VR war games - 8/11/2017 6:46:53 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

personal experience MK

Which ones have you used? According to this video, Oculus Rift is light weight and therefore doesn't stress head & neck as much as Vive.

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RE: VR war games - 8/11/2017 7:22:52 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		atm used most that's out there, from pc to consoles, only one not tried as yet is google glass 2.0

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RE: VR war games - 8/11/2017 8:19:45 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

atm used most that's out there, from pc to consoles, only one not tried as yet is google glass 2.0

Number of people on YouTube videos tell they haven't had significant side effects from using the VR sets. On one video, Clint from LazyGameReviews channel says he used HTC Vive some 4 hours straight, and worst thing he had after that was some disorientation which almost knocked him down. He went on to explain ways to avoid that. So it looks like there can be some different side effects for different people. But if most of the people can stomach it and prices keep going down while improvements are made at the same time, VR could get somewhere.

By the way, when game console market went under in North America back in the 1980's, some people over there thought that was it for the consoles. Then Nintendo & Sega went over there. When Chris Taylor was looking for publisher for Supreme Commander, he was being told computer game market is dying while Ati and nVidia were breaking sales records with high end gaming graphic adapters. It is very hard to impossible to make reliable predictions in this business.

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Post #: 23
RE: VR war games - 8/11/2017 11:09:32 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		I have been lucky enough to use an HTC Vive and the experience altered how I looked at games. So far the software has not caught up to the hardware and it is difficult to see how far this can go but the technology is pretty spectacular and even though I have used one for upwards of 20+ hours now it is impossible to train your brain not to react when you 'fall' or something big suddenly pops in front of you in a game.

I don't really see it's use in wargames as of now unless it was something with a virtual table that you could 'walk' around and look over and the pieces and counters looked like real counters.
I could also see it being used for something like Combat Mission, Graviteam tactics or Eugen Systems games were you were floating above the battle field and with the controls could zoom around the battlefield all the way down to ground level where you could stand next to a tank or infantry squad or have a 'lifesize' anti tank gun in front of you and watch as the crew worked it and be able to have the same LOS they do.

As for those that say they can't see in 3D. The headsets don't work like 3D glasses or even AR cards. You would still be able to get the effect.
Now as for poor eyesight....can't help you there.
I am legally blind without contacts but still young enough where my vision can be improved to around 20/25 with contacts.
I very well may get Lasik in the next year or so while I am young enough to benefit.

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Post #: 24
RE: VR war games - 8/18/2017 7:47:38 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		On another forum is discussed about movement in first-person VR games. Apparently movement with (Rift's) hand controller makes some people feel sick. One has played short sessions with that, and each time he can play little longer than last time. Movement by teleporting (point VR controller to location and push a button) is less strenuous.

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 25
RE: VR war games - 8/18/2017 9:18:46 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		Just give me a HOLO deck before I die and I'll be happy with that.

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Post #: 26
RE: VR war games - 8/19/2017 8:06:06 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Just give me a HOLO deck before I die and I'll be happy with that.

Here you go
Video demonstration

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Post #: 27
RE: VR war games - 8/21/2017 8:06:07 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I don't really see it's use in wargames as of now unless it was something with a virtual table that you could 'walk' around and look over and the pieces and counters looked like real counters.

Found one!

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 28
RE: VR war games - 8/23/2017 4:28:59 PM   
subwaysurfer

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 8/23/2017
Status: offline 		VR games are not bad.. our games today are evolving but for me the best game are PC and Console game.

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Post #: 29
RE: VR war games - 9/3/2017 5:56:38 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		Gameplay video of Star Trek: Bridge Crew
quote:

Oh ****, it is Kobayashi Maru!


quote:

ORIGINAL: subwaysurfer

VR games are not bad.. our games today are evolving but for me the best game are PC and Console game.

Those are great, but analog wargames are fun in other ways. Give it a try.

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 30
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