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RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted

 
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RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 5:28:57 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		I confirm on taking Axis North.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 31
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 5:36:41 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Sounds great to me

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 32
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 5:58:39 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		better cv maths

Someone had reminded me of this option, thankfully, as I had forgotten. Calculating the better cvs makes the game too long for the AI - but this should not matter in a non-AI game. It is there as a legacy for those used to the old values. Some might say it offers an advantage as it gives you a better idea of your forces. Personally I think these values are what should be part of the game, and was only left out for coding reasons originally. I have edited the first post to add this in, but post if there are any objections.

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 33
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 6:23:35 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Supreme Commanders

Seems to be the remaining issue before we start, these are what I think are the current options

A - an experienced player has said they would be interested, I think it would be Soviet Supreme, in which case I would be Axis Supreme. I suggest we wait until we get a yay or nay on this.
B - Neogodhobo takes second choice to be Supreme Commander and is replaced by reserve in their ground position. I would be another Supreme Commander - and I guess we could be either side?
C - Wait for another Supreme Commander, I am happy to PM others I think would be interested

Neogodhobo has said they are up for it if they are needed. So if A does not pan out we can go for B. Views from all welcome though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla
Sounds ok to start. You are taking one of the Supreme Commander jobs right?


If there had been many interests for Supreme I would have given them first Dibs. But yes I would quite like to. Axis is what I know well and enjoy, Soviet would be more a learning experience.



< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/8/2017 6:35:59 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 34
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 6:41:30 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		South is good for me....

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 35
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 6:57:14 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Something to socialize with the group. The bitter end campaign is based on scenario like victory conditions -- capture or keep certain cities. If in fact this game is to be a journey not an end goal it might be better to stick with the tried and true keep the "Ruskies" out of Berlin. The game might last and eventually flow better as a team game. I have socialized details with Telemecus who I truly believe would be better than I to simply explain the intended and unintended consequences of both types of victory conditions. I do think it is worth a discussion.

Crackaces
Commander Army Group North

"They crossed over the border an hour before dawn ..."

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 36
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 7:16:38 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Actually full credit to Crackaces for raising this as it had been a blind spot for me. Possibly this was HardLuckYetAgain's point (see post 25) but I was too dumb to appreciate.

Personally I completely disregard the victory conditions as my interest is the game play and in some sense role playing history and game testing alternatives. So the screen saying win or lose at the end has little interest to me. And to some extent to be in this team game you would probably have to be similar - in which case that choice is irrelevant.

However I know for most others a win or lose result is important. I suggested Bitter End as it does give intermediate point scores during the game for them on the assumption that not all of us will be there at the end. However it can skew the game for those aiming for points. For example Saratov is a very good objective for 1942; but unlike Stalingrad it has no points. Historically capturing Saratov could be better than Stalingrad.

So I will alter the set up option to 1941-5 campaign to avoid this, and assuming there are no objections. Let me know if there are. For those who need intermediate results I think we can agree our own appraisals of who is doing well. This will mean we avoid the groove of going down the same 1942 historical path. Other possibilities are availiable. And even if Axis repeats history, the Soviets cannot be sure they will. And similarly the other way after that for Soviets.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/8/2017 7:46:50 PM >

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 37
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 9:46:19 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		What do you mean appraisals? If someone is doing bad we'll shoot them, right? Being alive at the end is end game....

< Message edited by KenchiSulla -- 9/8/2017 9:47:01 PM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 38
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/8/2017 10:40:37 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla

What do you mean appraisals? If someone is doing bad we'll shoot them, right? Being alive at the end is end game....


I'm thinking discussions in the main thread and trash talk ;) but simply completing a game like this is a noble cause in itself :)

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 39
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 2:45:24 AM   
Neogodhobo


Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline
quote:



Apart from Drakken and Socket does anyone else have any particular views?



I would prefer settings to be as historical as possible, but Its not a deal breaker whatever people choose.

< Message edited by Neogodhobo -- 9/9/2017 2:53:06 AM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 40
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 2:52:36 AM   
Neogodhobo


Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Actually full credit to Crackaces for raising this as it had been a blind spot for me. Possibly this was HardLuckYetAgain's point (see post 25) but I was too dumb to appreciate.

Personally I completely disregard the victory conditions as my interest is the game play and in some sense role playing history and game testing alternatives. So the screen saying win or lose at the end has little interest to me. And to some extent to be in this team game you would probably have to be similar - in which case that choice is irrelevant.

However I know for most others a win or lose result is important. I suggested Bitter End as it does give intermediate point scores during the game for them on the assumption that not all of us will be there at the end. However it can skew the game for those aiming for points. For example Saratov is a very good objective for 1942; but unlike Stalingrad it has no points. Historically capturing Saratov could be better than Stalingrad.

So I will alter the set up option to 1941-5 campaign to avoid this, and assuming there are no objections. Let me know if there are. For those who need intermediate results I think we can agree our own appraisals of who is doing well. This will mean we avoid the groove of going down the same 1942 historical path. Other possibilities are availiable. And even if Axis repeats history, the Soviets cannot be sure they will. And similarly the other way after that for Soviets.


I completely agree with you 100% on everything you just wrote.

Oh and.... I will be role playing Field Marshall Von Bock...That is quite an honor ! Wow, I cannot wait to get to Moscow's suburb by Late August.... mouahahahahahah





< Message edited by Neogodhobo -- 9/9/2017 2:55:19 AM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 41
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 4:01:51 AM   
WingedIncubus


Posts: 512
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		I believe that with such a setting as the Eastern Front, the position of the forces on the map by the end of the game tells pretty much who's the winner and who's the loser. Objectives are rather irrelevant as far as points are concerned, but they should more than relevant if they affect production, population, and reinforcements.

My personal objective, personally, is merely surviving the onslaught. Secondly, that my Axis opponent on the Centre finds me a tougher nut to crack than expected.

< Message edited by Drakken -- 9/9/2017 5:14:31 AM >

(in reply to Neogodhobo)
Post #: 42
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 4:55:40 AM   
Neogodhobo


Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline 		Drakken, I will crush your puny armies into the ground, I will destroy your command and communications, I will make POWs of your HQs and force labor them to build my trenches ! I will step on your strategies and make place for a new world order. I will ravage your capital, Plunder your cities, Burn your villages ! I will erase your rivers and bomb your bridges, Annihilate your mountains and unleash the full force of my veterans to destroy your green soldiers, I will force your conscript into wishing they were dead !! You will stay awake at night, nervous of my next moves, YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU FACED ARMY GROUP CENTER !!!


In all seriousness though, I hope this is going to be neither too easy, nor too hard. But just enough for both you and I to enjoy some victories and some defeats, just enough to keep us on our toes ! :)

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 43
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 1:55:59 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		I fear crackaces is going to find me poor sport in all honesty

< Message edited by SparkleyTits -- 9/9/2017 1:56:18 PM >

(in reply to Neogodhobo)
Post #: 44
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 2:02:01 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		I never really got a reply on this - are you guys interested in having me join your game? I have only recently bought the game and haven't played against a human before. I'd take a secondary Soviet front, say the Southern or Northern, to gain experience.

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 45
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 2:50:04 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I fear crackaces is going to find me poor sport in all honesty


Hmmm not sure how I gave that impression? I think I am infamous for pointing out poor sportsmanship one time -- someone angling me in a poker tournament..(BARGE) otherwise I am for the journey for learning this game and having lots of fun! in the end not everyone will remember the results of this game, but everybody will remember what they felt playing.

"They crossed over the border the hour before dawn.."

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 46
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 2:53:39 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I never really got a reply on this - are you guys interested in having me join your game? I have only recently bought the game and haven't played against a human before. I'd take a secondary Soviet front, say the Southern or Northern, to gain experience.


You are on #post 2 .. Soviet any front. Telemecus is updating post #2 as further posts develop.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 47
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 3:52:13 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Apologies Crackaces I meant no indignation on your personality simply that I hope I can give you a run for your money instead of having you bored to face me for the next 4 years

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 48
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 3:54:54 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I never really got a reply on this - are you guys interested in having me join your game? I have only recently bought the game and haven't played against a human before. I'd take a secondary Soviet front, say the Southern or Northern, to gain experience.


In addition to Crackaces comment you are also noted as first reserve on post 29. As Neogodhobo may be taking up a Supreme Commander position you would then be asked to join to replace them as ground commander before we begin.

I suggest waiting until mid week to see if there are any firm interests and then start? I guess Neogodhobo is happy as Supreme either side - any preferences from others as to which side we should be?

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 49
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 4:19:57 PM   
Neogodhobo


Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I never really got a reply on this - are you guys interested in having me join your game? I have only recently bought the game and haven't played against a human before. I'd take a secondary Soviet front, say the Southern or Northern, to gain experience.



Also, it would make perfect sense for Soviet Commanders to be new, as with the purge and all ;)

In fact, it would kinda be cool to have all soviets player to be new players, and the Germans to be Veterans. haha Just saying ;)

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 50
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 4:23:53 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		There is a problem that if the Axis do not have a good few opening turns they will already have lost, whereas whatever the disasters for the Soviets then the best is yet to come. So there are gameplay reasons why you could want it that way round.

(in reply to Neogodhobo)
Post #: 51
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 4:43:34 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

There is a problem that if the Axis do not have a good few opening turns they will already have lost, whereas whatever the disasters for the Soviets then the best is yet to come. So there are gameplay reasons why you could want it that way round.


+1 ..One problem is if the ground commanders fail .. but there are multiple key decisions to be made on the German side regarding HQBU , order of battle adjustments , as well as general strategy as to objectives.. (this is far beyond the A-A line or Leningrad, Moscow, and Volgograd .. ) if these are not asserted with some experience and expertise .. this game will fall apart at turn 7 .. read AAR's of German failures ..

Thus for gameplay purposes I propose that it would be quite important for both sides for Telemecus to guide the strategic direction of the Germans ...



_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 52
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 5:08:30 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Apologies Crackaces I meant no indignation on your personality simply that I hope I can give you a run for your money instead of having you bored to face me for the next 4 years


No problem .. the front will be very exciting for 13 weeks and then stabilize .. i suspect cat and mouse for another 100 turns until Red Army 2.0.. then the excitement again ;)

"The fire glowing red Silhouetting the smoke on the breeze.."

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 53
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 5:32:03 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		I do think that Neogodhobo has a great point though it makes perfect sense for all the soviet ground commanders to be outclassed from the purges by our facist counterparts as long as we have someone who can lead us I think that sounds spectacular to me personally

I think this game will be an amazing opportunity to learn as I am sure a lot of advice will be given in the Soviet side AAR by the lovely community here.

I find it rather thrilling that the first 18 turns are going to be a very very very bad time for us I feel if we embrace that then we are all going to have a much nicer time

(in reply to Neogodhobo)
Post #: 54
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 9:12:01 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo


quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I never really got a reply on this - are you guys interested in having me join your game? I have only recently bought the game and haven't played against a human before. I'd take a secondary Soviet front, say the Southern or Northern, to gain experience.



Also, it would make perfect sense for Soviet Commanders to be new, as with the purge and all ;)

In fact, it would kinda be cool to have all soviets player to be new players, and the Germans to be Veterans. haha Just saying ;)


That could turn real ugly really quick.

_____________________________


(in reply to Neogodhobo)
Post #: 55
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 9:15:58 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I do think that Neogodhobo has a great point though it makes perfect sense for all the soviet ground commanders to be outclassed from the purges by our facist counterparts as long as we have someone who can lead us I think that sounds spectacular to me personally

I think this game will be an amazing opportunity to learn as I am sure a lot of advice will be given in the Soviet side AAR by the lovely community here.

I find it rather thrilling that the first 18 turns are going to be a very very very bad time for us I feel if we embrace that then we are all going to have a much nicer time


Playing the first 17 turns as a Soviet Player is like walking around making sure you squeeze your butt checks together real tight so nothing else can come by and screw you up the rear end.

_____________________________


(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 56
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/9/2017 10:06:38 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I do think that Neogodhobo has a great point though it makes perfect sense for all the soviet ground commanders to be outclassed from the purges by our facist counterparts as long as we have someone who can lead us I think that sounds spectacular to me personally

I think this game will be an amazing opportunity to learn as I am sure a lot of advice will be given in the Soviet side AAR by the lovely community here.

I find it rather thrilling that the first 18 turns are going to be a very very very bad time for us I feel if we embrace that then we are all going to have a much nicer time


Playing the first 17 turns as a Soviet Player is like walking around making sure you squeeze your butt checks together real tight so nothing else can come by and screw you up the rear end.


Yes I must say I am not usually the masochistic type at all so I am suprised Russia is my favourite of the two so far but I definitely seem to be feeling the sheer gravitas of gratification that comes with attempting to endure, survive and ultimately overcome

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 57
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/10/2017 12:56:31 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		I've played a campaign game against the AI as the Russians (up through 1941). Plus several scenarios on both sides. That's the sum total of my experience. That's why I figured it would be better for me to play the side that has to react and survive rather than the side that has to push the action.

As you say, it would be a pretty dull game for everybody if the Axis can't get their act together quickly.

"All summer they drove us back through the Ukraine. Smolensk and Vyazma soon fell. By autumn we stood with our backs to the town of Orel."

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 58
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/10/2017 1:33:50 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Is there a consensus I should be Axis commander? Neogodhobo are you OK being Soviet Supreme Commander? thedoctorking, if Neogodhobo becomes Supreme Commander there would be a vacancy for Axis Centre - would that be OK for you?

The first 18 turns are dreadful for the Soviets and a joy for the Axis - but the next 200+ are the other way round.

Dropbox

Are there any dropbox experts in the game - would you like to set one up for us and collect the emails from those in the game so far to invite us to it?

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 59
RE: 2by3+ Teams Axis&Soviet Wanted - 9/10/2017 1:36:05 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/15/2019 8:24:56 PM >

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 60
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