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[ADDED] DB request OECM emiter range / frquencies

 
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[ADDED] DB request OECM emiter range / frquencies - 11/8/2017 8:20:41 AM   
gilmaor

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/28/2013
From: ISRAEL
Status: offline 		Hello!

Is it possible to add to the DB the OECM range. I.E and maximum range in which the signal could reach a radar with sufficeint energy?

Otherwise, There is no data when Jammers begin to affect radars.

Thanks!

Gil,

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 12/8/2017 11:29:54 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/8/2017 3:21:07 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gilmaor79@gmail.com

Hello!

Is it possible to add to the DB the OECM range. I.E and maximum range in which the signal could reach a radar with sufficeint energy?

Otherwise, There is no data when Jammers begin to affect radars.

Thanks!

Gil,


Then as long as we're at it I'd like to have sensor and jammer effective bands included as well. It can be hard to know when you have a jammer or ESM set that can even pick up or jam a giver emitter because you don't have in-game data on that info, for example.

(in reply to gilmaor)
Post #: 2
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/8/2017 4:47:29 PM   
DrRansom

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 7/14/2013
Status: offline 		The range probably shouldn't be included, because that is dependent upon radar power versus jammer power.

What is important and not included is;
jammer frequencies
jammer direction(!)

Without those two bits of information, it is impossible to determine if a jammer would be effective at all.

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 3
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/9/2017 5:57:27 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Please see here:
http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=2920#1010

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to DrRansom)
Post #: 4
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/9/2017 6:21:28 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		So, I'm hearing that the radar & EW model is too complicated to portray to players?

But we still need to use these assets and have a baseline of info on them. My OHP frigate is cruising waters where a small task group headed by a Sovremenny-class destroyer is prowling. Do I know if my ship's SLQ-32 can pick up the Sovremenny's OTH radar emissions and maybe even jam them? Or I've got a 1980's era EA-6B escorting a strike package toward an area with SA-11s - can they detect, classify and jam those SAM acquisition and guidance radars?

As it stands right now I think I have to do out-of-game research to see what's possible. I'm confident that Command is using the right info under the hood, but as a player I need that info to make basic informed decisions.

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 5
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/9/2017 7:41:16 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't found this to be a high priority issue for a couple reasons...

1) most of the info is available on the web. But there aren't many sources on ranges because of the number of variables. You can find max power, but that is only one dimension.
2) A little experimentation is in the editor isn't fairly easy if you know the radars you are going up against.

I am not sure how the ECM ranges could be shown anyway. I don't think its that the devs think its too complex for most people to understand, though it might be. Its the complexity of having the range dynamically shown. There are so many variables involved in the range of countermeasures that an entire sim could be built around how dynamically it would show that range. It is so dependent on the exact radar that it is going up against and the variables associated with that set that the range would be so generic as to almost useless. The only way I could see to do it is similar to how ECM is handled in real life, before the mission, you would have to set each ALQ or equivalent for the potential radars it might run into. And lock the range(s) to that set.

A good read is Osprey's New Vanguard on SA-2s in Vietnam and you'll see that its not just a simple turn on and forget. Every raid the US executed had no idea what ranges for countermeasures they were working with. They were adjusting ECM power and settings on the fly. Its gotten a little more automated, but only fairly recently. Does Command simulate to that level...I don't know. But I think accepting the devs at their word is not beyond reason.


(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 6
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/9/2017 8:27:22 PM   
DrRansom

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 7/14/2013
Status: offline 		The problem is that basic information requires going online or running a separate test mission:

1) What frequencies the jammer can effect
2) What direction the jammer works against

This isn't range, this is basic gameplay mechanics which should be made clear to the player.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 7
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/9/2017 8:41:00 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		So how should that be displayed?

(in reply to DrRansom)
Post #: 8
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/10/2017 9:02:10 PM   
DrRansom

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 7/14/2013
Status: offline 		Effective Frequencies - put in the jammer description, in a similar way to weapons.

Effective Arcs - put into weapon mount direction, like in warships. Otherwise, put a direction into the weapon description (forward / aft or side)

The information is vital, doesn't involve any realistic ambiguity, and not visible to the player in the game. It ought to be visible.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 9
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/11/2017 7:45:37 AM   
Filitch


Posts: 423
Joined: 6/25/2016
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		Also it could be to show arcs on the map in accordance with effective jammer directions, like radar or weapon arcs.

(in reply to DrRansom)
Post #: 10
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/11/2017 3:25:10 PM   
DrRansom

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 7/14/2013
Status: offline 		Let me explain the absurdity of the situation:

What orientation to the threat axis should I fly the jamming aircraft in the mission "Hit Hard, Hit Fast"?

(in reply to Filitch)
Post #: 11
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/19/2017 4:47:47 PM   
gosnold

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline 		Jammer, sensor and radar frequencies definitely need to be displayed in the DB viewer: the RCS of objects is already displayed depending on frequency (A-D vs E-F), but it's really hard to know which band a radar is using right now, so this RCS information is hard to use in practice. Players currently have to build a kind of mini-DB of their own to know which radar/jammer/sensor does what.

(in reply to DrRansom)
Post #: 12
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 11/21/2017 2:24:41 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gosnold

Jammer, sensor and radar frequencies definitely need to be displayed in the DB viewer: the RCS of objects is already displayed depending on frequency (A-D vs E-F), but it's really hard to know which band a radar is using right now, so this RCS information is hard to use in practice. Players currently have to build a kind of mini-DB of their own to know which radar/jammer/sensor does what.


Added to the feature request list. You may want to put this in the request string so players can vote on it to possibly give it a greater priority.

Thanks!

Mike

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(in reply to gosnold)
Post #: 13
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 12/8/2017 11:26:13 AM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		Added, coming soon.

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 12/8/2017 11:28:57 AM >

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(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 14
RE: DB request OECM emiter range - 12/8/2017 2:32:08 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline

Thank you, guys!

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 15
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