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RE: How to 'abort' a movement?

 
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RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/17/2017 4:45:54 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		My finger isn't stuck to the screen. Frankly, I have play the game since version 1 from Talonsoft and never even considered it. All of the old hex games were like that.

(in reply to winkr7)
Post #: 31
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/17/2017 5:08:57 PM   
winkr7

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 1/9/2015
Status: offline 		Computers iterate through every piece when they plan a move, and when programmers want an easy to program user interface they make sure that a unit is selected at all times so all they have to do is make the user iterate through every piece. If you play chess though, you look at the board and select a piece, you don't iterate though every pawn rejecting each possible move.

So, to reiterate, it would be nice to be able to put down the piece.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 32
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/17/2017 8:15:54 PM   
Stardog765


Posts: 160
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		This is a really great request if we can get it. Its always been something I would have liked in TOAW.

(in reply to winkr7)
Post #: 33
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/17/2017 8:26:23 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline 		I'll put it down as a request. It's not as simple as it seems like it should be. The problem is that the unit panel on the top right is tied to the current unit, so changing that is going to be harder than it sounds. There are also things like the formation which expects a current formation and several other dialogs.


_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to Stardog765)
Post #: 34
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/17/2017 8:32:25 PM   
Stardog765


Posts: 160
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		Makes sense ya, isnt that always the case? Things that sound simple never are quite that simple. :)

It is appreciated you guys are willing to look into it though.


(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 35
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/17/2017 9:01:40 PM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		This really bothered me at first... now I don't even notice it. Not sure if we want to invest the programmer precious time in this...

(in reply to Stardog765)
Post #: 36
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/17/2017 9:20:32 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Why would you ever want a condition where you DON'T have a current unit?
warspite1

I think its really annoying. For example - particularly early on - there will be a lot of clicking various buttons to find out what is going on. I really dislike the red trail that accompanies my every mouse move...

To be honest I can't think of a game where there isn't a deselect. I am sure its something that will be gotten used to, but if at all possible I too would like a deselect feature added please.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 37
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/18/2017 12:55:39 AM   
geozero


Posts: 1886
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

There isn't a way to deselect all units that I know of, it's never come up.


Then it wasn't tested properly.

_____________________________

JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 38
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/18/2017 1:01:53 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think he means in the 20 years TOAW has been around.

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Post #: 39
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 11/18/2017 1:06:38 AM   
winkr7

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 1/9/2015
Status: offline 		Make up another piece that is just the no_piece_selected piece and have it get selected when nothing is selected.

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 40
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 4/21/2018 9:18:14 AM   
mazex

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Well - just bought the game and ended up here after only playing for 5 minutes before quitting the game to Google about this... I just managed to move one unit currectly before I accidentally passed the 38 degree line while trying to check the stats of an enemy unit ;)

And having worked as a software development manager for 15 years I can tell you that one of the most important thing about usability is to follow the standards that the users expect. I have played tons of war games and can't remember one where you cannot deselect the current unit since the Spectrum days ;) Like others said here you very often WANT to be sure that no unit is selected when clicking around to decide your next move. Check your own units, the enemy, the terrain etc.

I actually think I will put this game on the shelf until this is implemented, as it is too annoying for me at least. Sure - long time players get used to it but we all seem to agree that the standard is that it should be possible to deselect units, and the devs seem to agree and where looking at it. But this thread was started after the release - is this still considered - or implemented in some options screen?


< Message edited by mazex -- 4/21/2018 9:23:29 AM >

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Post #: 41
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 4/21/2018 11:54:05 AM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		I did pose this question before and got the same results.
That arrow following you around is really annoying.
I guess I'm sort of used to it now like I'm used to mosquitos in July.
This would be my #1 fix for the next big patch.

(in reply to winkr7)
Post #: 42
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 4/21/2018 12:03:34 PM   
RichG

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 11/28/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LeeChard

This would be my #1 fix for the next big patch.


+1

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Post #: 43
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 4/21/2018 4:49:02 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		As Ralph said previously, there are who knows how many areas of code require a unit to be selected, so it is not an easy thing to bypass. And as with all things TOAW, if you 'fix' one thing, two or more others get broken

Probably the reason why, in twenty years, no one has complained is that with the new TOAW IV graphics, the issue has been magnified tremendously with the change to those movement arrows that make them HUGE and RED. The original ones where much less obnoxious, as seen below.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to RichG)
Post #: 44
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 4/21/2018 4:53:05 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		If anyone wants to try the original arrows, unzip this file into your :
Documents/My Games/The Operational Art of War IV/Graphics Override
folder.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 45
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 4/21/2018 10:43:42 PM   
RPKUPK

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		I can't count the number of times that not being able to deselect a unit has caused accidental movement that cannot be undone when spotted. Frustrating!

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 46
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 4/27/2018 2:22:58 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		I also find the bright trail very distracting when I am trying to do other things rather than move a unit. This and not being able to scroll up and down by hitting the top and bottom of my screen are my main peevs at the moment. But hoping to get used to them eventually.


(in reply to RPKUPK)
Post #: 47
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/3/2018 5:02:29 PM   
mazex

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Well - if the arrow was less prominent the risk for errors would be even bigger ;)

Like said here by winkr7, try a "hack" by adding a "static invisible" unit that is selected if you press escape. Set the name to "No unit currently selected" and all other properties to "empty". Sure - there will be other places to change in the code to supress messages like "cannot move there" etc, but it sounds like an idea to try out? For a bonus - place it dynamically at the centre of gravity of the battle if possible :)

_____________________________

Tiefer, Tiefer...

Captain Lehmann-Willenbrock - "Das Boot"

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 48
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/3/2018 10:49:41 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Another thing about this when you always have a unit select, and which is constantly an annoyance during play:

When I move around the map, examining forces, and want to look at a stack, I hover the mouse over the stack and press 'C'. The group dialog appears, but the map also jumps to the location of the *current selected unit*, and I have to move the map back to the location I was examining. I need to select a unit in the stack, or nearby, to avoid the map jumping to the current unit when examining a stack. Kind of annoying when it happens, and it's quite a lot.

(in reply to mazex)
Post #: 49
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/5/2018 7:48:28 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mazex

Well - if the arrow was less prominent the risk for errors would be even bigger ;)

Like said here by winkr7, try a "hack" by adding a "static invisible" unit that is selected if you press escape. Set the name to "No unit currently selected" and all other properties to "empty". Sure - there will be other places to change in the code to supress messages like "cannot move there" etc, but it sounds like an idea to try out? For a bonus - place it dynamically at the centre of gravity of the battle if possible :)


I also thought of this - but I assume it is a possible fix the devs would already be aware of. As far as the map scrolling is concerned - am I the only one that finds it a pain that you have to move the cursor to a particular spot when attempting to scroll up and down? If I am maybe players get used to it? The arrow keys work well but they are on the right hand side of the keyboard so not much use for a right handed player. If a player could change some of the key bindings that would help. These are the only two UI issues that really bug me.

Cheers,
Chris




(in reply to mazex)
Post #: 50
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/5/2018 8:45:08 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Here's a fix for being able to scroll by just moving the cursor to the edge of screen:
https://github.com/Codeusa/Borderless-Gaming/releases

This has an option called "Use Mouse Lock Hotkey (Scroll Lock)" which enables you to lock the cursor to the active window. Basically you can then "slam" the mouse any direction you want. The only drawback is being unable to access the menus if you use those a lot, but you can easily disable it again, or use the keyboard to open the menus.

Another bad thing about the current version of Borderless Gaming is it needs admin rights to launch, which is stupid. But a little searching and you can find the older version 8.4, or I can make it available to you (it's free software).

I also use Autohotkey to be able to use WASD for movement, as well as overriding some of the keys to make the most common commands closer to WASD.
https://autohotkey.com/

Here's the script I use:
https://pastebin.com/ZJFQyZcX



< Message edited by Shadrach -- 5/5/2018 10:12:51 PM >

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 51
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/5/2018 9:27:27 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		Thanks very much Shadrach. I'll take a look in the morning.

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 52
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 2:21:11 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		Hi Shadrach, I tried both methods. The only problem I have is with the Borderless gaming application. I don't have scroll lock on my keyboard and attempting to turn it on using the on-screen keyboard didn't have any effect. So I tried the Global Hotkey option and that removed all the borders apart from the file menu. The cursor will now scroll down but not up due to the file menu. Is there a way of removing that? The WASD works a treat! Thanks again.

Chris

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 53
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 2:50:20 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Hey Chris - what kind of keyboard doesn't have scroll lock?
Yeah I guess maybe a lappy keyboard - are you sure it's not bound to a function key, I know some Logitech keyboard have it like that?

You could try this - choose an F-key for Scroll Lock and bind it using AHK. I think F8 is free, so like this: 

F8:: ; ScrollLock override
   Send {ScrollLock}
   Return

Paste that above the #IfWinActive directive and below the last Return line. Reload the script.
Then while the Mouse Lock hotkey is enabled, press F8 and it should do the same thing.

You don't really need the Global Hotkey - it's just for enabling/disabling the borderless mode for an application. Doesn't even work all the time.

What you do is, when running the game, it will show up in the left panel of Borderless Gaming, you move it to the right using the arrow button, and it will remember whenever it's running in the background.

Glad the WASD script works for you
It's my personal preference so there might be keys you don't like, if so you can relatively easy change them in the script.

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 5/7/2018 2:52:00 PM >

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 54
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 4:07:42 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		Yep - it's a Logitech. I messed around a bit to turn it on going by internet instructions. FN key and then pause/break. Nothing. Tried a few other combinations which put the PC to sleep, then it asked for a password I know longer remember but luckily it desisted after a reboot. I tried the script change but nothing happens after I press F8. I assume I put it in the correct place:

+r:: ;Shift+R; Refresh current unit
Send r
Return
F8:: ; ScrollLock override
Send {ScrollLock}
Return
#IfWinActive

I'm very happy WASD works - but I'll try again with BG later in the week as it's bugging me that I can't get it to work. Had enough for today.

Cheers,
Chris

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 55
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 4:12:01 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		P.S. I had a play around with the bright red movement arrows to make them a little less garish. If anyone wants to try them just add the contents of the attached file to the Graphics Override directory. If you want to try your own colours download Paint.net. It's a free program that allows you to make simple graphic mods to many games.

Cheers,
Chris


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HobbesACW -- 5/7/2018 4:16:15 PM >

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 56
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 4:54:28 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		The change in the script is fine - but I forgot to mention, you need to reload the script as well, by right-clicking the AHK icon in the tray and choosing "Reload..." It should definitely work then. Unless Logitech has decided to override the keycode returned by the F8 key as well...

Maybe F4 would be a better choice if you want, as it's closer to the left side.

And of course make sure BG is running and the Mouse Lock hotkey is enabled.




(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 57
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 5:59:29 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		Shadrach, you've dragged me back to this while I am trying to enjoy beer and the rare sunshine we have here! I was just going to post a few more screenshots as to how I can't find a reload option (I still can't). But it now works! I assume rebooting with the new script in the Documents directory has the same effect. Very happy that I now have two methods of scrolling up and down. If you are ever near Hemel Hempstead pop by and I will buy you a beer or two :)

Cheers,
Chris


< Message edited by HobbesACW -- 5/7/2018 6:00:29 PM >

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 58
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 6:42:52 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Always happy to be of help, and glad you stuck with it

A reboot isn't required when doing changes, and here's a shot of what I meant, by right-clicking the icon in the "tray" you get the menu:


Anyway, enjoy the evening, and if the sun's gone again, have that beer in front of the game. I might have one too

Have a good one,
Stian

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 59
RE: How to 'abort' a movement? - 5/7/2018 8:59:50 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		I was getting confused between the two bits of software. I need Borderless Gaming to scroll the map but I also need the Autohotkey script to turn it on and off. I've now removed the WASD bit but kept the F8 part of the script - now I can scroll happily! Just hoping one day there will be a patch to allow us to deselect a unit. It makes the UI feel outdated and clunky at the moment without this option.

Chris

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 60
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